How to get stronger characters

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Darklightz
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How to get stronger characters

Unread post by Darklightz » March 16th, 2008, 1:13 pm

I beat the game in normal, now I"m trying for Hard 3. I barely managed to win the first battle and now I can't finish the Mutikapa battle. 4 monkeys instantly surround Hakuoro and finish him. And I realize that if I"m struggling here already, I"ll never finish the truly hard battles. So I have 2 questions

Is there any way to get your characters stronger or maximize the amount of BP they gain or anything like that?

What is the best way to raise Hakuoro in hard mode, full defense for survival?

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Phlebas
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Unread post by Phlebas » March 16th, 2008, 1:48 pm

I feel your pain, tried that battle a few dozen times on hard 3 and always lose in 2-3 turns. I'm guessing you need that P/ECE or whatever to level up the characters before the fight to survive it - or maybe there is some very specific route you can follow to barely make it to the end of the zone with hakuoro alive. That was already a really hard fight on Hard 1.

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Unread post by WingZero » March 16th, 2008, 3:17 pm

Yeah. That battle took me several retries too. I made it somehow in the end though.

As for maximizing BP, you can either retry a stage so many times (not sure how many, never done this. At least more than 6, from personal experience) that when you finish the stage the BP from retries actually carry over; or you can use the less time-consuming but slower method of comboing.

Finishing off an enemy with combo gives you an extra 10 BP per kill. Try to kill EVERY enemy with combo, whenever possible.

As for BP allocation, hard 3 is hard enough that you can't really max tech immediately. I suggest getting tech to 2 (so you can finish enemies with combos) and then focus on ATK / DEF (Hakuoro). Hakuoro has no need for too much MDef (or even any) because... well, you've played through the game, so you know why. But that aside, Tech should still be maxed fairly quickly. Hakuoro's affinity is ?, so his combo finishers always pick on the weakness of the target.

Get at least one character to 99 MDef by the end of the game (Touka seems to be the prime candidate as her starting MDef is REALLY HIGH. Oboro's low MDef cost makes him good as well) and dump as much points into MDef as possible for Eruruw after her ATK is high enough to max heal your characters with double heal (not combo finisher).

Other than that, you HAVE TO use the elemental affinities. It makes fights a lot less painful.

(In case you don't remember/know: Earth > Fire > Water/Lightning > Wind > Earth)

The Derihourai battle is especially annoying.

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X-Calibar
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Unread post by X-Calibar » March 16th, 2008, 5:11 pm

As for BP allocation, hard 3 is hard enough that you can't really max tech immediately. I suggest getting tech to 2 (so you can finish enemies with combos) and then focus on ATK / DEF (Hakuoro).
Hard 3 really is hard. Plus I was foolish enough to try exactly that!
I have only been using my BP to increase tech, and haven't used it for anything else yet... To make matters worse I was going for that title you get if you have no retries and the title for everyone having tech upgrades.

Battle 1 :
► Show Spoiler
Battle 2 :
► Show Spoiler
Battle 3 :
► Show Spoiler
Battle 4 :
► Show Spoiler
Battle 5 :
► Show Spoiler
Battle 6 :
► Show Spoiler
EDIT: if you just want to beat Hard 3, keep killing enemies and leveling up each time you retry, as long as you don't get 50 retries for a single battle you are doing Ok. [if you do 50 for a single battle I think you get a bad title lol, although I suppose you need to get one of those once... to collect all the titles. Also you get a bad title for 100 retries on a battle.]

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Re: How to get stronger characters

Unread post by sevalle » September 12th, 2009, 10:01 am

thread necromancy!!! :P
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Mazyrian
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Re: How to get stronger characters

Unread post by Mazyrian » September 12th, 2009, 1:08 pm

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"I am the spider that set this web.
-Welcome to this wonderful killing chamber."

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Re: How to get stronger characters

Unread post by sevalle » September 12th, 2009, 6:58 pm

► Show Spoiler
pic of the battle I'm referring to:
► Show Spoiler

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nobaka
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Re: How to get stronger characters

Unread post by nobaka » September 13th, 2009, 7:50 pm

Take Aruruw, Karura, Benawi/Kurou (whoever has the higher stats), and Doriy and Guraa. Set Karura, Aruruw, and Eruruw as close as you can to Hakuoro. Genjimaru should fare alright, even on Hard three. Even so, protect your soft gooey center of Eruruw/archers. You can take Urtoriy and Kamyu instead of the archers, if you like. If you do take the mages, make sure they're adjacent to Hakuoro to get their bonuses. Aruruw will likely be your main tank, assuming you've used her at all. Just keep her out of the water. If you can't keep her out of the water, take Touka or your other rider.

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Re: How to get stronger characters

Unread post by sevalle » September 16th, 2009, 6:42 am

zzz... i gave up trying and used the trainer for 1hp enemies (thanks alot jb55), the
► Show Spoiler
have got attack and defence in the 60s and 70s whereas those of my characters are only in the low 50s :x
► Show Spoiler

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Mazyrian
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Re: How to get stronger characters

Unread post by Mazyrian » September 16th, 2009, 2:16 pm

For the wizards, spell damage is based on attack; I don't think magic defense has any effect. Kamyu can be useful if raised but only if you play defensively, since she can't move and attack. Urtoriy starts with too low of an attack to be useful in my opinion.
Is not that the Av Kamiws' element is hidden, is that they don't have any (like Hakuoro).
I don't know the exact bonuses they have if adjacent to Hakuoro; they at least seem to do more damage.
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Re: How to get stronger characters

Unread post by sushimonster » August 17th, 2010, 10:34 am

Phlebas wrote:I feel your pain, tried that battle a few dozen times on hard 3 and always lose in 2-3 turns. I'm guessing you need that P/ECE or whatever to level up the characters before the fight to survive it - or maybe there is some very specific route you can follow to barely make it to the end of the zone with hakuoro alive. That was already a really hard fight on Hard 1.
I know that this is a HUGE jump, but please bear with me.

I understand that P/ECE (the wee portable device that Leaf made) is an open source system. It uses the C language for programming; no permission needed to play around with it.

http://translate.google.co.nz/translate ... %26hl%3Den

That's from the official P/ECE website, which was last updated over half a decade ago...

Considering (more like hoping) there are some people still playing Utawarerumono, I'm wondering if anyone is keen on getting the open-source emulator and seeing whether or not getting that to link up to this visual novel? Now before all the red flags go up, I repeat; this is an open-source thing by Leaf. This is not some warez or VGBA & Pokemon or whatnot.

I read the text in Japanese and the above is for those not too orientated with the language, using Google's translator. Though my Japanese vocab too ain't up to scratch so if I'm in any way wrong about the open-source stuff, then message, please advise and I'll remove this post lickety split (ie, quickly).

I'm not too well orientated with C; never liked software development with discipline (despite being an engineering student); I guess this would be a nice way of getting back at my horrendous C exam marks...

BUT, before I commence, and incase there are others here who are more informed than I... Anyone keen? I'll probably research this more in-depth in the next few weeks or so but would probably like to have tips / warnings before commencing. I'd love to see a P/ECE system on Windows where we can connect to and train Utawarerumono characters as we please...

Either that, or I'm looking for the P/ECE to buy, as in actual hardware. I hear users have taken it apart and given it hardware mods (overclocking, microSD additions for RAM increases etc etc); I'd love to give that a go WHILE at the same time try getting mirror moon's Utwarerumono working with P/ECE. It was 9800yen when it came out; anyone know where one could source this today (preferabbly new, but if not a complete package with box...). eBay, yahooJP, amazonJP not helping.

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Re: How to get stronger characters

Unread post by X-Calibar » August 23rd, 2010, 5:32 pm

I don't think I can help, but that sounds very interesting... and I've always been curious about the p/ece aspect for Utawarerumono...
I wonder though... is there already an emulator out there or a way to run the p/ece on the computer?

This video looks like an emulator, or the video is being output to a recording device...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf0DnPd3o6k

EDIT: You can use this website : http://web.archive.org
To access some old websites that have expired... (I found an emulator... but the page was in japanese, so I can't tell if it is safe to link to it or not~)

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sushimonster
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Re: How to get stronger characters

Unread post by sushimonster » August 24th, 2010, 7:11 am

I too have found a page (in Japanese) where there is continued mention of emulators and apps designed for the P/ECE hardware. That page is still alive in respect to updates; there are even updates for Windows 7 x64 and P/ECE compatability with WINDOWS XP MODE. This page in question is EXTREMELY LONG; google's translator gives me an error message saying the page is too big, and Bing Translator simply crashes my browser; I can't imagine what other translators would do...

Regardless, this page in question is from and linked off Leaf's own P/ECE site (which unfortunately is dead in respect to updates; last one was from 2004).

As for how we run it. I'm pretty sure we can extract the Utawarerumono file(s) that is going to work with the P/ECE. But this is where my doubts arise. Doesn't LEAF expect us to BUY a P/ECE to extract and use that / those files? And hypothetically, let's say we do locate the file somehow. We get the P/ECE reading what it needs to and it plays well. How do we get the saved files back to the Utawarerumono visual novel and play with the stronger characters? Surely there must be some sort of communication / file reading and conversion process.

Again, I'm still waiting whether I'm allowed to continue on with this research in the first place. I'm pretty sure P/ECE is open-source in regards to the code, but if it is not by any chance, then I'm waiting for message to tell me; I don't wanna go deep into the thing only to be told a month later to stop...
I still don't know what aspect of the P/ECE hardware is open-source at the moment (just the OS on the P/ECE, the entire thing, or just the apps we make for it).

...alas...

awaiting a moderator's reply...

I'll post up what I (think I) know once that happens.

I saw that youtube video. And yep, that is definitely an emulator (there is a mouse cursor in the video being captured). Though this is the first time I actually see an emulator for P/ECE up and running. It actually looks to perform WORSE than my 21 year old GAMEBOY (those grey bricks that take 4x AA batteries from back in the days, the 'PSP' of the 20th century... Actually, I still have a working one right here...)

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Re: How to get stronger characters

Unread post by Message » August 24th, 2010, 7:06 pm

sushimonster wrote:I'm pretty sure P/ECE is open-source in regards to the code, but if it is not by any chance, then I'm waiting for message to tell me;
Dude. How the eff am I supposed to know? I've never even heard of the bloody thing. I'm not gonna do your homework for you if that's what you think.

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sushimonster
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Re: How to get stronger characters

Unread post by sushimonster » August 24th, 2010, 9:20 pm

Message wrote: Dude. How the eff am I supposed to know? I've never even heard of the bloody thing. I'm not gonna do your homework for you if that's what you think.
I guess I should have worded my above posts better (and shorter).
Well, I wasn't exactly asking for anyone to do anything BUT, just to CONFIRM whether what I'm about to do crosses the line in terms of warez; wouldn't want to unknowingly cross that line and be told to stop later on...

In any case, I'll assume your response implies 'go nuts'. Hopefully will come back with something useful...

**Edit**
For anyone watching and Message, if you're interested (yeah, doing my own homework here lol [0_0]); my conclusion...

So I fired up my 5 year old Windows XP machine for the first time in 2 years. Utawarerumono is on there, and I changed the OS locale settings to Japan. I also found the emulator from Leaf's P/ECE developer page. Though that's where the problems began...

- The emulator supposedly opens up a command prompt window with control instructions. And a seperate window with the actual game that is being displayed. Both crash / close immediately upon opening. I have tried compatibility modes with Windows 98, ME, 2000 and the results are the same.
- The emulator takes 'piece.pfi' files, which seem to be the actual applications / games.

During the past 30 minutes or so, I played around and this is pretty much what I experienced:
- Utawarerumono will check for the P/ECE hardware, and will NOT move any file (let alone .pfi) without successfully detecting it.
- Thus, I searched the .a and .bak files with Susie (and Leaf's plug-ins) in the hopes of finding a .pfi file or similar; nothing...

What I've learned / conclusion:
- P/ECE software is DEFINITELY open-source. The OS and games are compiled and run using the C language, so Visual Studio Basic will suffice.
- Because Utawarerumono checks for the actual P/ECE device when SENDING and RECEIVING data, I find it rather difficult to imagine a working emulator for this. There is nothing that mentions the P/ECE device in the .a and .bak files, apart from the P/ECE menu-screen images. That plus, some driver files in the installation directory.
- Horrendous amounts of reverse-engineering will be required; I'm not too competent with C as it is, and from what I see the .dll files might need some editing; that probably falls under the "against EULA" category.

So I guess I'm not the person to get this emulator working... (navigates to the trainer page)

...Something slightly unrelated though.
While browsing through the .bak and .a files, I came across a label for HARD MODE 6? I know there's that image cut-off bug, but hell... Wonder how hard that would be~

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