Archer - Let's clear this up, shall we? [SPOILERS]

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Kenzu
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Archer - Let's clear this up, shall we? [SPOILERS]

Unread post by Kenzu » December 28th, 2008, 8:43 pm

Hey all. How about clearing up the identity of Archer once and for all? If you have a thought on that then please write: Which timeline (world), which Shirou and WHY. I have my own view but I'll wait for replies for now.

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Unread post by Keeper of Gil's Vault » December 29th, 2008, 2:09 am

Arai had a page on Fuyuki, please refer to that. It is the most objective compilation I have seen so far, going any further will be adding personal hypotheses and opinions.

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Unread post by spathi » December 29th, 2008, 7:29 am

can you give the link then?

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Unread post by Raitei » December 29th, 2008, 11:44 am

even arai's comment about "which route is archer from" is merely a speculation. a good one though.

http://web.archive.org/web/200706201104 ... r%27s+past
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread post by Xamdou » December 29th, 2008, 1:23 pm

so Archer is like having almost a total different past as Shirou?
"You sit proudly in this cave , like a Queen of Egypt.
In my service to you , I shall never know rest.
To prove my devotion , I have stolen this ostentatious offering.
But I'll show you things your dark blue eye haven't seen , smiles like a lake in the sun , blossoming like a lotus."

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Unread post by inferno_flamex » December 29th, 2008, 1:35 pm

Raitei wrote:even arai's comment about "which route is archer from" is merely a speculation. a good one though.

http://web.archive.org/web/200706201104 ... r%27s+past
Is he trying to say that Archer is HF Shirou?...

There are some points there that are just 'here and there'... Cant really remember where i heard what...
"When a petanko hugs you, she's hugging closer to her heart"...
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"There is no greater love, between a boy and his pillow"
~:~:~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ_FT_c3IiQ

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Unread post by spathi » December 29th, 2008, 2:47 pm

I thought about that a long time ago

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Unread post by matthewfarenheit » December 29th, 2008, 2:48 pm

fuyuki wrote:Killed for starting a war by a person that he had saved (who also happened to be the one who started it)
Whut? Can someone explain this to me (semantic errors FTW) and when it is stated? Thanks in advance :D

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Unread post by Inverted » December 29th, 2008, 3:41 pm

► Show Spoiler

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Unread post by Kenzu » December 29th, 2008, 11:14 pm

Seriously? There are WAY TOO MANY mistakes in this theory to match Archer. I started this thread because I wanted to share my opinion on the matter and not just accept what someone else wrote. I see no reason not to discuss it.

Besides, aren't personal hypotheses and opinions what makes the discussion? It's thanks to that we can understand more about the subject.

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Unread post by Keeper of Gil's Vault » December 30th, 2008, 1:45 am

What do you mean by 'WAY TOO MANY mistakes"? All the points are just summary of the various dialogues/descriptions that have occurred in-game. Past exhaustive discussions were all inconclusive. All we could agree on was that in terms of the potential to become Archer: Fate Shirou > UBW Shirou > HF Shirou (~0% probability, as he relinquished his ideal).

Hypotheses and opinions are great, but the first lesson all writing instructors will teach you is that they must be supported by concrete evidence. As Raitei has posted, all the fragments of information we have are there, and all we can construct from these fragments is the spectrum stated above.

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Unread post by spathi » December 30th, 2008, 11:17 am

I think Fate shirou still has a slim chance since he "freed" saber in that route

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Unread post by Raitei » December 30th, 2008, 11:30 am

spathi wrote:I think Fate shirou still has a slim chance since he "freed" saber in that route
sorry if I'm wrong, buy your words sound like "freeing saber added some points on the possibility of becoming archer". if so, that's not true, since archer never freed saber.

but sorry again if I'm mistaken.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence

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Unread post by spathi » December 30th, 2008, 11:57 am

Raitei wrote:
spathi wrote:I think Fate shirou still has a slim chance since he "freed" saber in that route
sorry if I'm wrong, buy your words sound like "freeing saber added some points on the possibility of becoming archer". if so, that's not true, since archer never freed saber.

but sorry again if I'm mistaken.
yeah you read it the other way around,

not freeing saber added points to being archer, just wanted to point that out since most people would say fate shirou has a big chance of being archer

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Unread post by Kenzu » December 30th, 2008, 12:06 pm

Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:What do you mean by 'WAY TOO MANY mistakes"? All the points are just summary of the various dialogues/descriptions that have occurred in-game. Past exhaustive discussions were all inconclusive. All we could agree on was that in terms of the potential to become Archer: Fate Shirou > UBW Shirou > HF Shirou (~0% probability, as he relinquished his ideal).

Hypotheses and opinions are great, but the first lesson all writing instructors will teach you is that they must be supported by concrete evidence. As Raitei has posted, all the fragments of information we have are there, and all we can construct from these fragments is the spectrum stated above.
Okay then. I'll point out everything while analyzing all the points. Time to go all-out.
► Show Spoiler

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Unread post by Rikh » December 30th, 2008, 4:13 pm

Kenzu wrote:
Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:What do you mean by 'WAY TOO MANY mistakes"? All the points are just summary of the various dialogues/descriptions that have occurred in-game. Past exhaustive discussions were all inconclusive. All we could agree on was that in terms of the potential to become Archer: Fate Shirou > UBW Shirou > HF Shirou (~0% probability, as he relinquished his ideal).

Hypotheses and opinions are great, but the first lesson all writing instructors will teach you is that they must be supported by concrete evidence. As Raitei has posted, all the fragments of information we have are there, and all we can construct from these fragments is the spectrum stated above.
Okay then. I'll point out everything while analyzing all the points. Time to go all-out.
► Show Spoiler
there are a few mistakes in your corrections as well...
► Show Spoiler
In short, Archer is definitely not the product of Fate, UBW, or HF (DEFINITELY NOT HF)
He is the product of a route not mentioned in the game
(Loli-Route anyone?)

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Unread post by Xamdou » December 30th, 2008, 4:16 pm

Rikh wrote:
Kenzu wrote:
Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:What do you mean by 'WAY TOO MANY mistakes"? All the points are just summary of the various dialogues/descriptions that have occurred in-game. Past exhaustive discussions were all inconclusive. All we could agree on was that in terms of the potential to become Archer: Fate Shirou > UBW Shirou > HF Shirou (~0% probability, as he relinquished his ideal).

Hypotheses and opinions are great, but the first lesson all writing instructors will teach you is that they must be supported by concrete evidence. As Raitei has posted, all the fragments of information we have are there, and all we can construct from these fragments is the spectrum stated above.
Okay then. I'll point out everything while analyzing all the points. Time to go all-out.
► Show Spoiler
there are a few mistakes in your corrections as well...
► Show Spoiler
In short, Archer is definitely not the product of Fate, UBW, or HF (DEFINITELY NOT HF)
He is the product of a route not mentioned in the game
(Loli-Route anyone?)
Might be Taiga Route , where Taiga was the Holy Grail >_<
"You sit proudly in this cave , like a Queen of Egypt.
In my service to you , I shall never know rest.
To prove my devotion , I have stolen this ostentatious offering.
But I'll show you things your dark blue eye haven't seen , smiles like a lake in the sun , blossoming like a lotus."

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Rikh
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Unread post by Rikh » December 30th, 2008, 4:17 pm

Xamdou wrote:
Rikh wrote:
Kenzu wrote: Okay then. I'll point out everything while analyzing all the points. Time to go all-out.
► Show Spoiler
there are a few mistakes in your corrections as well...
► Show Spoiler
In short, Archer is definitely not the product of Fate, UBW, or HF (DEFINITELY NOT HF)
He is the product of a route not mentioned in the game
(Loli-Route anyone?)
Might be Taiga Route , where Taiga was the Holy Grail >_<
I <3 u :oops:

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Xamdou
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Unread post by Xamdou » December 30th, 2008, 4:18 pm

Rikh wrote:
Xamdou wrote:
Rikh wrote: there are a few mistakes in your corrections as well...
► Show Spoiler
In short, Archer is definitely not the product of Fate, UBW, or HF (DEFINITELY NOT HF)
He is the product of a route not mentioned in the game
(Loli-Route anyone?)
Might be Taiga Route , where Taiga was the Holy Grail >_<
I <3 u :oops:
Ara~ , same here :oops:
"You sit proudly in this cave , like a Queen of Egypt.
In my service to you , I shall never know rest.
To prove my devotion , I have stolen this ostentatious offering.
But I'll show you things your dark blue eye haven't seen , smiles like a lake in the sun , blossoming like a lotus."

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Unread post by Inverted » December 30th, 2008, 5:15 pm

Adding to what Rikh said
► Show Spoiler

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