Sacchin Vs Nero Strategy (AC)

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Sacchin Vs Nero Strategy (AC)

Unread postby Daichi » August 17th, 2008, 11:03 am

Well, since Melty Bread doesn't seem to wanna let me create an account. And that their IRC channel seems to have my IP range included in their ban list... I'll just bug you guys about strategy tips and hope for the best.

I know I'm not that horrible of a Satsuki player, I can perform some of her advanced techniques, but I'm having quite a bit of trouble against Nero. I find his reach and priority to be crazy high against Sacchin. >.<; And I find him very hard to read.

Once I get cornered, I can't seem to be able to do anything other then TRY to block. And when I try to advanced, I usually get hit hard since my attacks can't land or I can't block fast enough.

Here is one of my better replays. Which I guess actually makes me look pretty bad. I think my grove was also off after several bad battles in a row against this guy. >.<;

My 2nd round here was pretty good, only cuz I got two nice moves on him... After that I couldn't get close enough for another good hit. :cry:

The few videos of this pair I've seen online don't seem provide a lot of hope. Anyone have any good input?
Last edited by Daichi on August 17th, 2008, 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby abscess » August 17th, 2008, 11:31 am

Hmmm... I couldn't watch your replays, for some reason my MB can't load them, just one where you beat the crap outta Neco-Arc Chaos. So I went straight and played 3 times using Satsuki. The difficulty is set to 5, damage to 3 and they are 2 round bouts.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=9949 ... b9a8902bda
I didn't plan any strategy, but found myself jumping and using the fierce atack, if I could do it I would land and try a combo where Nero fell down and try to hit him as much as I can. Rinse and repeat. Mix with some other atacks and that's it.

It may be just me, but I found Nero way harder when found in arcade mode after the 5th bout. I was even using Nanaya (one of the characters I'm used to) and found myself ass-raped continuously by Nero. Those black things with amazing reach and speed that, I think, counter almost any move from any character are like cheating! That's why I hate Nero and Wallachia!

Oh, just as a side note, I'm not a Sacchin user, I rarely grab her since I'm not used to her slow atacks (at least most of them). For that reason you may find my playing sloppy at best.

Hope this helps. Later.
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Unread postby Daichi » August 17th, 2008, 12:08 pm

Ah, I probably didn't specify clearly. I'm referring to human opponents.

Sadly, AI controlled Nero is nothing compared to human controlled Nero. AI leaves a lot of openings which make it easy to advance upon.

A human can keep the pressure up, with combos and his familiars for some pretty annoying mixups.

Note how Sacchin's 2C sucks compared to Nero's crouching attacks.

No idea why you can't play my replay files... but here is a video of the fight from above. (Hopefully the h264 codec isn't another problem.)
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Unread postby abscess » August 17th, 2008, 12:26 pm

Daichi wrote:Ah, I probably didn't specify clearly. I'm referring to human opponents.

Sadly, AI controlled Nero is nothing compared to human controlled Nero. AI leaves a lot of openings which make it easy to advance upon.

A human can keep the pressure up, with combos and his familiars for some pretty annoying mixups.

Note how Sacchin's 2C sucks compared to Nero's crouching attacks.

No idea why you can't play my replay files... but here is a video of the fight from above. (Hopefully the h264 codec isn't another problem.)

Well, the video does play... kinda. It shows Wallachias smiley, but stays like that. It probably is my shitty ISP (the worst thing is that it's supposed to be the best in this place :( ). Well, anyway, if it's against human opponents I can't be of much help here. I've never even played once online, haven't even tried it to begin with (procrastination). Well, hope you get some useful help. Later
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby marus » August 17th, 2008, 5:28 pm

Short version: Work on your combos, learn when to attack and when not to attack, and don't get stressed out.


Long, paragraph form version:

I don't really play Satsuki, but there's some general things you can work on, firstly and most important that you work on your BnB combo (Bread n Butter combo, the one you'll try to connect most of the time). After a connected 2C something like 5C 623B into her OTG loop should be second nature. You could have won most of those matches if you simply increased your damage output, not to mention that ending her combos with an airthrow sets her up for a nasty 4-way wake up game to continue the pressure (after the airthrow you can do a super jump towards your opponent and you can either attack with j.C as they wake up or land with 2a/2b whatever, or at the last moment you can airdash back then do the same j.C vs 2a mixup). Spend some time in training mode if needed.

Other than that, learn when you can and can't punish your opponent. There were a couple of moments in the match where you missed some really obvious chances to punish Nero, like when he launched a deer or did EX crows when you were right next to him. Note that Nero is very vulnerable during the beginning of his summons, and also note that while your in the middle of throwing your opponent that you're invulnerable to damage, so you can start a combo into one of your many throw specials, which if timed right will let you let you dodge the deer/crow/plant whatever and finish your combo (although in the case of the crows you were so close to him that could have done whatever you wanted and still dodged the crows, since they travel pretty far away from Nero). Also note that Nero can't do an attack directly out of his dash (his teleport thing), and a badly spaced dash is an good chance for you to get on the offensive.

Another thing, be careful with spacing. Nero has a lot of range on his moves, and this coupled with his summons means he can control a lot of space. Fortunately Nero has a lot of punishable moves if they're used incorrectly, so the key to beating him is to bait him into doing a bad move that leaves him open and then punishing him for the mistake. Doing this means knowing the range on both your moves and your opponents. Unfortunately I don't really have enough experience to give you solid tips on this other than just play this guy a lot, but I think you were doing pretty good in this area as it is. At a distance, you showed good knowledge of the speed and distance of your moves and managed to get past Nero's range a good few times, it's just that once you got "in" you had a hard time finishing your blockstring or combo and you gave the Nero a chance to back up and set up his offense again.

Lastly, don't give in to pressure. A lot of time players (especially me) know what to do in a given situation, but when the time comes to act they can't because the pressure is too much, and they either perform stupid moves out of desperation, or perform their intended move incorrectly. I'm not sure if this applies to you, but it's something to think about. Nero is a pretty annoying character to fight because his range and summons can lock out your offensive options, but he doesn't really win until he lets that get to your head. One of his major downsides is that he deals crap for damage, so you can afford to take a few hits. Just don't let the pressure get to you, then make a chance to get in and start rape. If this is problem for you, the best advice I can give is to just play a lot and condition your mind to deal with it.

Postmortem:
It just occurred to me that you were maybe playing online, and made mistakes because of lag. If that's the case, then in addition to the above try to find matches that don't lag like crap.
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Unread postby Daichi » August 17th, 2008, 10:24 pm

marus, Some excellent advice.

Yeah, These set of matches are pretty much right after I learned her basic B&B combo. (You can see me attempt it in the beginning of the 3rd round but my air grab was too slow then.) It certainly isn't going to be second nature over night but I'll certainly be working on it... I'm still having some trouble connecting the OTG hit into an EX air grab to continue the loop.

Reading Nero is probably one of my biggest problems. I can't figure out the best time to jump in to land in some punishment. Or even figure out what summon is what. Even though it's probably obvious. I think I shielded an EX deer summon right as it came out for some odd reason in one of my sets of fights. (Not sure if it's was these replays)

His attacks push me away so much further then most other opponents that where a simple 2c that used to connect, doesn't anymore. Certainly something I'll have to get used to. And I am starting to think that Satsuki doesn't have much in the way of good anti-air if they are standing practically right above you (too close to air grab).

My follow-through and block strings are really bad in these replays. I guess practice, practice, practice.

I am playing online, but the person I'm playing against Is fairly close geographically, so our delay time is quite low.

Also, random curiosity. I've read that Satsuki has clash frames in her crappy ground dash. Anyone have an idea exacly where in this dash they are? I know this wont help in a real fight, but I'd still like to know.
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Unread postby marus » August 18th, 2008, 4:02 am

I'd like to think it's good advice, but most of it is pretty general. I found a thread on Melty Bread with a few more tips you could use here. BTW, why can't you make an account there? I'd send one of the mods an e-mail, there's a lot of good people there that can help you more than I can. But yeah, first thing that I'd work on is your combos, and maybe watch some videos on your free time (Denpa is a godly Satsuki).
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Unread postby Daichi » August 20th, 2008, 9:14 pm

I just realized that most of Nero's ground attacks are air unblockable. >.<; This makes sense why I set myself up for so much fail... I thought it was cuz I sucked so much at blocking.

That "Sacchin Match-ups" thread said stay out of the air, but it didn't specifically say why.

This kinda sucks for Satsuki, since here best movement is via the air. Which means I guess the only real way to advance is 214A but even that isn't very safe.
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Unread postby marus » August 21st, 2008, 3:07 am

Well, I'm not sure on this, but I think Satsuki's j.A and j.B will trade with most of Nero's ground normals, so maybe try those more than j.C. Jumping around a lot may be a bad idea, but instant air dashes shouldn't be too dangerous if you don't use them religiously. For ground approaches, I can't really think of any great ways for Sacchin to get in, unfortunately. 5B moves you forward a bit, but is still pretty short range and punishable. 214A might be usable, but like you said it's pretty unsafe (although if you have meter, you can EX cancel it into 214C, which might let you beat out any punish attempts if you time it right). I don't know Satsuki very well so you'll have to experiment on your own a bit, or look around for some more info.

Also, here's a match video I found on Melty Bread that might help (you need a nico video account):

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm2554943
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Unread postby Seven Deadly Sins » August 24th, 2008, 7:36 am

The reason to stay out of the air is because absolutely every single one of Nero's ground normals is air-unblockable, and specifically his 5B will crush anything that you would ever dream of jumping in against. Nero's anti-air game is absolutely nuts because of this, and so jumping in against Nero is a losing proposition if your name is not Ciel (and even then, you're better off on the ground).

I agree with everything that marus said. Satsuki versus Nero is a pretty ass matchup (Actually, Satsuki doesn't really have many good matchups, which is the reason she's considered low-tier), because Satsuki needs to get close, and Nero is all about making sure that you don't. Mainly, the only thing you can do is try and exploit the time it takes for him to set up his summons, and maybe try to get him a little overconfident. A good Nero will zone you to hell and back, and there's nothing you can do to get in range, so really, you just have to get momentum and stay there. The 4-way wakeup game is really your biggest weapon- score that first big combo, and then punish Nero every time he makes a mistake. It should only take two or three combos to put him out of his misery, so make the most of every hit.
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