Some thoughts on Ciel...yeah I know

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Some thoughts on Ciel...yeah I know

Unread postby Allegra » March 6th, 2004, 4:07 am

Good evening, ladies and gents. I will get to the topic of this post shortly, but I would like to take this opportunity to say a "hello everyone" and also to thank all the crew at Revolve. And one last thing, I haven't spoken English with anyone since more than a year, so please don't be too hard on me if you see mistakes...just point them out and It will help me greatly.

Ciel, I really don't know why I picked her in the first place. It's not a "favourite character" thing, it's just that Ciel is the character I'm working on right now (I have only owned the game for three weeks now). Nevertheless, it IS a nicely drawn female (all hentai references aside), and I guess her fighting stile is pretty unique.

Ciel has strong points, but for the most part, they go around her "French" moves (and I'm talking about the knife throwing moves, they all have French names, actually they are numbers).

Ok, I'm going to do something here which I think is needed, I'm going to list th "how to" for the moves, because a number of times I've found myself lost in a good combo explanation or something, just because I don't know a move/technique.

(just look at the number pad for the directions, ok?)
--->Zero: 214+a/b
..............Deux: 236+a/b (after Zero)
..............Trois: 214+a/b (after Zero)
......................Quatre: 214+a (fire attack) or b (knockdown)-(after Trois)
......................Sept: 236+a/b (after Sept)
.............................Trois: 214+a/b (after Sept..chain it in an eternal loop)
..............Neuf: 421+a/b (after the first Trois)

I hope it's clear

Well, if you play with Ciel, you'll have noticed that this attacks don't come out fast, so it's a no combo scenario except if you throw them from the right distances (and even so...I don't think is worth trying). I like to think these as zoning atacks, because they are very useful to put your opponent on the defensive (or at least urge him to do something), especially with the loop.

I think you can scape the loop with a good jump, air dash and second jump and land near Ciel....If someone could please confirm this ^_~

As I said before the loop can be dangerous, as this attacks chip a lot of damage and can be repited ad infinitum (chip as in blocked damage).

Ok, on to another subjet. I have the replay file most of us can get from the web (is in another thread in this forum), and while some of the combos there are quite spectacular I am always looking for something which you can actually (and consistently) use in a real fight. As for Ciel I haven't really found any damaging combos.

There is of course, the CPU OTG ("of the ground" an attacks that knocks you up!). Which is: (lets say that ">" means to cancel one hit into another)

C>2C>2C>(jump cancel)8 then B>C>(jump cancel again)7>B>C>214+a/b>214+a/b>214+a/b

I've tried to add an air dash, but to no success (at least the rest of the combo doesn't seem to work).

Note that I suggest never to start a combo with 2C>2C because you have to cancel so fast, that you can't really decide to cancel or not based on if the enemy blocked the first strike. I prefer to start the combo from another attack....if you are not comfortable with close C, try a B and then continue the secuence.

There is of course another not so flashy combo, that deals a fair amount of damage. It's:

(insert starter of choice)>2C>2C> (jump cancel, last time I say it, JC from now on)8 then C...C>66>C>8(JC) then B>C (I've seen a C>C but I can't do it).

As for ground combos, they are really not that good (of course I am only talking of what I have found myself). Most of them require for you to corner you opponent to be of any use. Anyway, these are some of them...ah, I almost fell ashamed for this, the thing is some of the most complicated things do the same damage as 3/4 hit combos...

2C>B>B(2hits)>C(2hits).......(yes you can follow with an EX move....but is not really worth it)

Of course in corners you can do crazy things (more on this later), but come on, I need things I can do anywhere (besides, when are you going to corner somebody with Ciel??).

Well, sorry, but this is all for now, I am tired and I really would like your help...I'll add more to this post when I can.

Just a note, remember that 2C>2C>C is posible and it could lead to interesting combos (specially in corners)....please someone more skilled, check on this.

Ok, last thanks to the ones translating the story (I'm desperated for it....:p )

Good bye, take care, Allegra
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Unread postby linalys » March 6th, 2004, 9:40 am

I don't like using Ciel in Melty Blood (she's better in ReAct) because I think her normal attacks, specials, and combos are terrible. Her close c is the only good all-around normal she has, every other attack has downsides. Her specials aren't very effective either. Her sword throw sequences (on the ground) aren't very combo friendly and easily jumped over, though in the air her sword throws are good and will be what you end your combos with most of the time. Her wall hops take too long and your opponent can easily react in time to whatever she may do. Her EX moves aren't great either. Again swords is the only good special as you can combo either air or ground version. Her level 3 super can be comboed into but most of the time the damage isn't worth it. Her air combos are low damage because of her trip launcher and she doesn't have any practical ground combos. So all in all I don't see what she has going for her.
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Unread postby Allegra » March 6th, 2004, 10:42 am

Yeah, you know....I was going to get there. I agree with you. I mean, countless times I've been with the problem of finding a ground stopper (I mean an attack to stop dashing opponents) or maybe a quick and useful combo starter....and that would be B??

I don't think so...Close range, akward hit box and besides doesn't lead to anything good in terms of damage, even with her charge attack: which is B>B then quickly 2>4B (after the first or second hit).

About what you said (about finishing her combos with an aerial knife throwing secuence), the only thing I can think about is (apart from going OTG) is to cancel a combo into a quick air dash (I do mine with a quick 6,8,6 because I use the arrows and is sometimes difficult to get a succesful 9 or 7) and follow with a B>C>66>C>214+a/b>214+a/b>214+a/b.

Thats the best I could come up with. Oh, and other thing, I have a little trouble with CIel combos being unreliable (I mean, I can connect a combo only half the times, even when carefully measuring the distance and timing). Well as you said, I don't really think Ciel as a powerhouse (not even a powerful character) but as I heard many people talk about her I thought I may try her; I also haven't played Re-Act...mainly because I haven't search for a download link :?

Nevertheless, she IS a character and my policy is that all characters are and should be played....so if anyone has suggestions, they would be appreciated (and I also won't be leaving this post unattended)...but I may look for another character to play for the next few days

Best of Luck, Allegra
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Unread postby TheXev » March 6th, 2004, 11:26 am

Well, the only part I disagree with linalys is purely option: I still prefer Ciel, even in Melty Blood, although everything you say is true. My advantage while playing as Ciel in Melty Blood, and even more so in ReACT, is being able to evade more readily then most other characters. Ciel is also the only character I?ve seen (at least in regular Melty Blood) that can ALWAYS dodge 17 Pieces from Shiki plus any other nasty combo that requires a fast dodge(so long as she has enough magic to do 214+C). But, I suck at fighting games, and Melty Blood is my learning experience. I can easily beat anything tossed at me at level 5 difficulty. The only AI character I still have trouble defeating with Ciel is Sion, because her outrageous range always gets me (for the life of me, I cannot play as Sion).

With my current level of skill, I am trying to understand combo?s better, and combo damage. I see that most of the crap combo?s I attempt to perform with Ciel do crap damage (since I am only good at OTG combo?s using the 2+CC launching method). I?ll upload some of my replays later today when I?m awake enough to do so. Another kicker to my playing is that I play with a game pad and I use an analog stick, of all things.
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Unread postby linalys » March 6th, 2004, 5:44 pm

I love playing as Sion I think she's either the best person or one of the best ones. Shiki's super can be dodged simply by holding back and blocking. As long as you are blocking or not in his active hit box (about a sec into the move it becomes active) it will miss. It's pretty hard to get hit by it unless he comboed into it (hard) or you have a laggy move sticking out.
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Unread postby Allegra » March 6th, 2004, 10:15 pm

I just can't seem to drop this gal...so again, here comes some more info on this girl I like to call Ciel.

I started the game fifteen minutes ago (yes, you ARE going to listen to my rambligs), and I said "what the hell, let's give it another try!" so I started messing around with the 2C>2C laucher and then cancelling to C. Well, It has it uses...and I have been pulling some damaging combos (that is....damaging if you look at Ciel other combos).

Here is one I can pull consistently: (there are several others, but as I have said, it's a 50/50 chance of them connecting) more info on this later, I'm just going to post before I forget the damn combo :p

2A>2C>2C>C>C>C

That is, a low punch, cancelled into the launcher cancelled into close C and then (just keep jamming that C button) you'll (hopefully) connect a long distance C and then follow up with it's cancel.

.....I hate her

Well, as I am playing the game as I write the post...I have some corrections, actually not corrections, additions. The combo I explained before ALSO suffers from "Ciel awful timing", so here is what you do. You MUST cancel the first 2A at the last possible moment; In fact against characters like Walakia, you have to do 2A>2A and then the launcher, and cancel them (the A's) at the last possible moment.....which might very well be a milisecond or two later..........I hate her

Of course that if you manage to hit with a 2B, you could (and should my friend) do:

---> 2B(two hits)>2C>2C>8(JC)>B>C>9(JC)>C>B>214+a/b>214+a/b>214+a/b

And this layout IS correct, I made a mistake in the first post....it is "B>C>9>C>B"

That will take a sure chunk of life (again, for Ciel standars) and It will always conect. (as always, crazy things can be done in the corners, like conecting Ciel charge attack IN a combo.....but of course, I won't post them :p, I'm not really good at researching, any help will be greatly appreciated).

Best Regards, Allegra.

How's my English doing, so far??
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Unread postby linalys » March 7th, 2004, 1:49 am

The best air combo I can do without basically doing what those experts are doing. 2C,2C,C,JC(9),B,C,66,wait a little,B,C,JC(9),B,C,2C. Even still it's the same concept I just can't take it as far...
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Unread postby Shinova » March 7th, 2004, 3:32 am

Ciel's fun to play with, but Arcueid is hands-down my best and favorite character. The only character I can successfully clear the Arcade mode with level 5 cpus with.

Now back to Ciel:

I agree, her air combos are way too weak, and it's almost not worth finishing off with an EX move in the air (the extra damage isn't worth the spending of those 100 points).

Her super is easy to block too. (at least with Arcueid's, you can be evil and do it right after you air-throw an opponent of do the down-down-strong move and it's two follow-ups, and then do her super).

The best part about playing Ciel is that it's just fun to play her, that's it I believe. :D
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Unread postby Allegra » March 7th, 2004, 11:46 pm

Hello Everyone!, just a quick post as I have uploaded some replays of the couple of worthless little combos I came up with :p.

I took the opportunity to upload some (actually two for now) replays for the combos I posted before. I'm still practising with the gal, but I've never been any good with fighting games (I rock at shooters though) so bear with me.

I also like to thank you for all the help in this matters, I hope we can keep up with this (until someone thinks of something better to do :p). Also I'd like to throw a friendly "WTF??!!" at linalys. That combo is pretty wicked, I still can't pull it of (don't have the height necessary for the third jump).

Well, as I told you before, here are the combos.

--->First one is the infamous, "Ciel horrible timing combo"...I really shouldn't post this as it is highly unreliable, but it's very sweet when it does connect (.....no, not sweet in terms of damage :p).

...Damn combo

--->The second is the one from my last post (you know, the one that starts with 2B and then launchs). I've made a change in the combo and I replaced the jump cancel (which was like a 9 or a 7) for a "straight up" JC. Ahh, and another thing, please overlook the first missed attempt :p

Up she goes

That's it for now kids, I may post later with new info. And please Linalys give me a replay of that funky combo of yours ^_~.

Take care, Allegra
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Unread postby linalys » March 8th, 2004, 3:34 am

I love that horrible timing combo of yours. It looks really nice. Here's the combo you asked for just change the txt into rpd.
http://v4.livegate.net/linalys/Ciel10hits.txt
While I was at it I also made another combo that's just a little longer than that
http://v4.livegate.net/linalys/Ciel23hits.txt
finally a combo that just looks nice at least imo =p
http://v4.livegate.net/linalys/Ciel24hits.txt
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Unread postby Shinova » March 10th, 2004, 12:59 am

Hmmm.....while we're on the topic of useless replays:

http://members.fortunecity.com/shinova/temp/replays.zip


I hope it works. Both are combos that are just for pure show. The second one starts off with Ciel's wall attack, and adds up to something like 34 hits or so in total.

I wish I could do so of the cooler combos. I have a wireless keyboard so maybe my keyboard is too slow (or/and maybe I'm too slow also :wink: )
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Unread postby linalys » March 10th, 2004, 3:08 am

It's weird the file size and crcs are exactly the same and the game says the replays are between Arc and Miyako. They don't load either.
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Unread postby sally60 » November 18th, 2004, 3:02 am

Ciel is my favorite character though she wasn't given that much credit in both the game and the anime.

I wouldn't consider myself a very experienced player but the 5star difficulty setting of the AI is not a problem for me.

I like Ciel because she's fast, has a very smooth dash and can connect her EX moves very easily. Both 214C and 236C have lots of invincibility frames and can be used as counters. 236C is especially cheesy since it comes out instantly and hits anywhere on screen. Her command moves can chain very smoothly too and that 4B 214B command kick is very cute to me.

She can be played both as keep away with her swords and her EXs and also as a near range melee with her command combos and 623 and 22. Versatility is good to me.

Her EX air combos are fairly reliable and can hit the 3500dmg range reliably. EX Land combos can easily scale the 4000dmg range. I've not been able to combo her Arc Drive somehow....

But the real reason i like her is simply because she's Ciel.

Sallys <3s Ciel. Its so sad most translators dun like her according to the website update ;_:

Priestess_Sally
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Unread postby AstCd2 » November 19th, 2004, 3:20 am

Ciel may be an interesting character to select in MB, but she's as dull as a dictionary to translate for. Now, Sacchin... I could translate for Sacchin all day =3
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