Terms, Translation style

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Terms, Translation style

Unread postby TakaJun » August 21st, 2008, 9:46 am

LAST EDITED: Aug 22st

Decided terms:
人型動物: Anthropoid animal
人型犬: dog girl/dog boy
わんこ: Doggy
発情期: Using "heat"
ご主人様: Master

Style issue:
*We WILL keep honorifics
*We will translate food names, there won't be TL notes
*I will do my best to match how characters speak, but will not be overexcessive about it.
*We won't keep things in japanese. such as itadakimasu.

Others: "Playing Wanko to Kurasou" We will shorten the term to "wanking"

Feel free to argue your point on anything, though
Last edited by TakaJun on August 24th, 2008, 1:54 am, edited 11 times in total.
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Unread postby SlashZero » August 21st, 2008, 10:19 am

My two cents:

Terms: (original japanese: possible translations, with preferred one coming first)
わんこ: Doggie, puppy
Puppy sounds more natural to me.

人型動物: human-shaped animal? 人型犬: human-shaped dog
Human-like animal/etc? Shaped is kind of... too specific.

発情期: Can we use "heat" or is that cat specific?
Heat is fine for most animals.

ご主人様: Master
No arguments here.

Style issue:
*Do we want honorifics?
I don't really care. It'll make the portions where people talk about honorifics a bit more difficult to translate though. If you want to be lazy, just leave them in and no one will care~.

*Do we want to translate food names, or romanize them (ex: gyudon vs something like beef-over-rice-bowl)
Translate food names, since I doubt we're adding TL notes. Sure if you're wapanese enough to play this game you should know most of them already, but that doesn't mean most people will know all of them. There's quite a bit of food talk in the game, from what I recall.

*I don't think we need to worry too much about how character says things (-ssu for Risa, as an example) since voices will convey that. What do you guys think?
Well, my opinion on this is what the translation says should mirror the personality and tone of the one speaking. Easier said than done. So sometimes straight removal of those things is fine, other times maybe not so much. But it is a minor point for the voiced characters (everyone except our protagonist, who doesn't do much of this anyways), as you say.
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Unread postby Message » August 21st, 2008, 11:16 am

SlashZero wrote:*Do we want honorifics?
I don't really care. It'll make the portions where people talk about honorifics a bit more difficult to translate though. If you want to be lazy, just leave them in and no one will care~.

You guys might be interesting in this short thread about what people think MangaGamer should do in their translations.
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Re: Terms, Translation style

Unread postby Einherjar » August 21st, 2008, 1:33 pm

TakaJun wrote:Please tell me what you guys think about these things.
Style issue:
*Do we want honorifics?

I think it's very important.
TakaJun wrote:*Do we want to translate food names, or romanize them (ex: gyudon vs something like beef-over-rice-bowl)

Romanizing them would be nice, if there's some sort of note section.
TakaJun wrote:*I don't think we need to worry too much about how character says things (-ssu for Risa, as an example) since voices will convey that. What do you guys think?
If the voices convey it enough, then I suppose it's not necessary.
TakaJun wrote:*Do we want to keep some things in japanese? such as itadakimasu?
I don't think it's necessary at all, it definitely wouldn't hurt to put it in.
TakaJun wrote:*Can japanese symbols be kept in the translation?

?

Why can't mirror moon just use the same translation method like F/SN or Tsukihime? Is it because it's not a mirror moon translation?
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Unread postby ayadew » August 21st, 2008, 1:34 pm

Einherjar wrote:
Why can't mirror moon just use the same translation method like F/SN or Tsukihime? Is it because it's not a mirror moon translation?


Well, I believe TakaJun just wants to do this as a fun side-project and not go through all the routines MM usually have to keep a high standard on their work
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Re: Terms, Translation style

Unread postby drizzt_rocks » August 21st, 2008, 2:01 pm

TakaJun wrote:Others: "Playing Wanko to Kurasou" We will shorten the term to "wanking"


Excellent idea right there :P
And the cutest anime character award goes to ... PINO
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Re: Terms, Translation style

Unread postby Kjoery » August 21st, 2008, 2:52 pm

TakaJun wrote:人型動物: human-shaped animal? 人型犬: human-shaped dog

Anthropomorphic would technically be the correct term to use. Edit: It's technically correct, but it sounds awful. (Whoops, forgot to include this part int he original post. I guess it was kinda important.)
TakaJun wrote:ホスト: Host? is that a common term in english?

Could you give an example of its context? I think the meaning of "host" that you're referring to might not be commonly used, but I'm not completely sure.
Last edited by Kjoery on August 22nd, 2008, 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terms, Translation style

Unread postby Dimglow » August 21st, 2008, 5:41 pm

TakaJun wrote:Please tell me what you guys think about these things.

Terms: (original japanese: possible translations, with preferred one coming first)
わんこ: Doggie, puppy
人型動物: human-shaped animal? 人型犬: human-shaped dog
発情期: Can we use "heat" or is that cat specific?
ご主人様: Master
ホスト: Host? is that a common term in english?

Style issue:
*Do we want honorifics?
*Do we want to translate food names, or romanize them (ex: gyudon vs something like beef-over-rice-bowl)
*I don't think we need to worry too much about how character says things (-ssu for Risa, as an example) since voices will convey that. What do you guys think?
*Do we want to keep some things in japanese? such as itadakimasu?
*Can japanese symbols be kept in the translation?

Others: "Playing Wanko to Kurasou" We will shorten the term to "wanking"


わんこ: I really support simply romanizing this to Wanko and leaving it like that. Nyanko appears as well once or twice. The term is used quite commonly, including H-scenes, and I really think it would send the wrong message to throw doggie/puppy into the text in a place like that. Worst case scenario we can treat it like a new species (it really is.)
人型動物: Anthropomorphic. 人型犬: No idea. Dog/Canine Anthropomorphic.
発情期: The proper term that is inclusive of all animals and isn't slang is "estrus." However for style purposes and because it simply sounds better I vote for "heat."
ご主人様: Master. No question.
ホスト: Host. It is common enough and is really the only word that explains what he did.

Honorifics: Yes. Except not attached to master. Master-sama is overdoing it and just sounds awkward.
Food: Indifferent.

Speech patterns: Some are kind of obvious like Risa's "slur." If we wanted to I am sure we could come up with a way to get the idea across. However some will need to be given some attention. Koutarou in particular speaks in a somewhat "brutish" fashion. Silvy is also a few steps below average human intelligence and speaks somewhat childishly. Mikan also tends to become a little childish when distressed. Yuuichi tends to be rather level-headed and a bit on the "cool" side, so maybe a little jaded in nature. The guy does negotiate buying a teenage girl's virginity without breaking a sweat after all.

Keep some Japanese: Completely indifferent here.
Japanese Symbols: Like what?
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Unread postby Ciel » August 21st, 2008, 8:13 pm

*Do we want honorifics?

personally, no please. it makes things too weeaboo and very awkward to read, and even more if someone walks in on you and reads that, ignoring the fact that they'd see what you're playing before that. :P

*Do we want to translate food names, or romanize them (ex: gyudon vs something like beef-over-rice-bowl)

i say translate. many people won't understand what the hell do some of those mean, and sending people to a text file with explainations every so often is annoying and breaks the game flow.

*I don't think we need to worry too much about how character says things (-ssu for Risa, as an example) since voices will convey that. What do you guys think?

i don't really care, though yeah, voices will convey that, so it probably isn't needed.

*Do we want to keep some things in japanese? such as itadakimasu?

again, i'd rather everything was in english. this is supposed to be an english translation after all, and things like that have been recently making me cringe every time i see them in what's supposed to be english language. :P

*Can japanese symbols be kept in the translation?

don't really care about this one i guess, it's just symbols.
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Unread postby DarkRedSky » August 21st, 2008, 9:00 pm

*Do we want honorifics?


Yes please. I can't really stand it when the text omits honorifics and the VA includes it, it just feels unnatural.

*Do we want to keep some things in japanese? such as itadakimasu?


If it feels awkward when translated, or maybe saves text space then keep it in romanji.
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Re: Terms, Translation style

Unread postby Balcerzak » August 21st, 2008, 9:17 pm

TakaJun wrote:Please tell me what you guys think about these things.

Terms: (original japanese: possible translations, with preferred one coming first)
わんこ: Doggie, puppy
人型動物: human-shaped animal? 人型犬: human-shaped dog
発情期: Can we use "heat" or is that cat specific?
ご主人様: Master
ホスト: Host? is that a common term in english?

As far as I've ever heard it used, saying an animal is in "heat" works for just about any animal (certainly not just limited to cats, as I know I've heard it applied to dogs, and I think a few random other domesticated mammals that I can't remember specifically...). Whether that's technically accurate or not, I can't say, but it would certainly be understood colloquially.

On the subject of "host", a bit more context is needed. For example, if someone is holding a dinner party, then they are indeed the host. However, it it were usage along the lines of, say, Ouran Host Club, then I wouldn't really consider it common English usage. I'm not sure I can explain exactly why, but the way "host" was used there never really seemed right to me, even if it may be technically correct. If I had to take a guess it would be that my conception of "hosting" relies on a much stronger connection between person and a specific place that is provided, rather than a person and some provided service, though maybe that's just me.


TakaJun wrote:Style issue:
*Do we want honorifics?
*Do we want to translate food names, or romanize them (ex: gyudon vs something like beef-over-rice-bowl)
*I don't think we need to worry too much about how character says things (-ssu for Risa, as an example) since voices will convey that. What do you guys think?
*Do we want to keep some things in japanese? such as itadakimasu?
*Can japanese symbols be kept in the translation?

Others: "Playing Wanko to Kurasou" We will shorten the term to "wanking"

Personally,
  • I like honorifics. A lot. The shades and nuances of meaning aren't always easily replicated, and as long as their inclusion is relatively unobtrusive, and not excessively redundant, I'm all for them. Especially, if it will sync up with the voice-acting better.
  • Food/culture terms: I could go either way here. I'd say it would have to depend on how commonly used the food name would be. For instance, I'd hate to see "onigiri" or "takoyaki" translated, but on the other hand, I can understand it being vexing coming across a word and not knowing what it means (for example: sitting "seiza").
  • Character nuances: Again, either way. For instance, I tend to enjoy seeing little cute nuances like -nya and -nyo come through in the text as well as the voice, but one example of a nuance that was intrusive was in Eclipse's Shana subs, with Wilhelmina's constant "de arimasu"s. It's really a judgement call between "cute" and "annoying".
  • Japanese sayings (a la "itadakimasu"): See my earlier food/culture bullet.
  • Japanese symbols: Are we talking things like 「 」 ~, or what exactly? I'd be fine with the quotes, tildes, yen signs, etc. as long as the meaning is perfectly understandable.
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Unread postby abscess » August 21st, 2008, 10:34 pm

TakaJun wrote:Please tell me what you guys think about these things.

Terms: (original japanese: possible translations, with preferred one coming first)
わんこ: Doggie, puppy

I would personally go for puppy if it is about animals, if that word reffers specifically to dog-girls I think dog-girl would be a better choice. It was mentioned before that Nyanko is used somewhere, if, again, Nyanko reffers to cat-girls, using cat-girl would be better, if it's used to reffer to an animal, kitten or kitty would be abetter choice.

TakaJun wrote:人型動物: human-shaped animal?

Antropomorphic animal would be correct, but it sounds a bit to scientific and since it's a game (I assume with moe things and stuff like that), maybe dog/cat/something-girl/boy/somestuff would be a better choice. That is supposing I'm understanding what this all about.

TakaJun wrote:人型犬: human-shaped dog

Again, antropomorphic dog would be correct, but see the previous paragraph.

TakaJun wrote:発情期: Can we use "heat" or is that cat specific?

Yes. Estrus is used for mammals, heat is the more "slangish" term I think. When an animal is in heat it has entered its' estrous phase of the estrous cycle

TakaJun wrote:ご主人様: Master

If it's the person that owns the wanko, I think it's correct.

TakaJun wrote:ホスト: Host? is that a common term in english?

I wouldn't know. I think host is also used when something enters a system.... let me try to explain with an example: A virus has entered your body, now you are sick, you are the host of the virus. If I'm using the word in the right way, I hope that helps.


TakaJun wrote:Style issue:
*Do we want honorifics?

That's quite hard. I think when honorifics aren't present when the original had it, you lose a part of the original work and sometimes the real meaning behind a sentence, but at the same time we are talking about an english translation and honorifics may get in the way for some people, mainly if the don't really know what they mean. I personally think that, as much as it may annoy me sometimes, honorifics have to be present.

TakaJun wrote:*Do we want to translate food names, or romanize them (ex: gyudon vs something like beef-over-rice-bowl)

I would preffer a translation. I know very little of japanese cuisine and would feel lost in the way if I don't know what the characters are talking about.

TakaJun wrote:*I don't think we need to worry too much about how character says things (-ssu for Risa, as an example) since voices will convey that. What do you guys think?

It's the same thing with the honorifics, I'm afraid. I still get a flinch when I see a translated dialogue in english with a -desu at the end, but sadly it sometimes has to be there to really convey what the character talks like.

TakaJun wrote:*Do we want to keep some things in japanese? such as itadakimasu?

Same that with the food-names, translate, please.

TakaJun wrote:*Can japanese symbols be kept in the translation?

I wouldn't know what you mean by that. If you mean the Yen symbol and such, I'd rather they be present, even if it feels way too weaboo.

TakaJun wrote:Others: "Playing Wanko to Kurasou" We will shorten the term to "wanking"

Aaaah.... alright... ?
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Unread postby md » August 23rd, 2008, 11:24 pm

The argument was made for doggy and kitty over puppy and kitten because they're not actually young enough for that to be accurate.
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Unread postby inferno_flamex » August 28th, 2008, 8:06 am

I would like to give my 2 cents regarding the matter...

There are just afew things that i wanna point out though... Considering that the other terms and translations i dont have much of a problem of either...


*We WILL keep honorifics

Well... I hope so... I mean.. You guys are doing a FAN translation right? Well.. If its a fan translation.. I believe that people that are anime fans in general have some understanding between -san and -chan... Plus.. It DOES translate alittle towards the 'personality of the characters'... For example.. A 'respectful girl' would always end with a -san or something of the similar.. wouldnt she?

HOWEVER!...
I just want to point out something that you guys might have missed...

Do you want last names and/or first names?

I feel this is very VITAL should it be in the game... Since in japanese culture, only very close to you would call the main character, their first names...

So I would like the terms for this to switch between Last name, to First name... whenever it is appropriate...



For example... perhaps in a situation like this...

Girl: Umm... 'Lastname'-san... Can i call you by your first name?
Main: Uhmm.. Sure...
Girl: Mmmm... 'First'-kun.. Aha! I said it.. *giggles*


Something like that you know? Since the honorifics are already there....
If the game would use 'first names' all the way.. Scenes like that would be very awkward indeed wouldnt it?

Hmm.. That's all i could think of i guess...


ご主人様: Master


DEFINITELY MASTER!!!!

It kinda gives a FSN feel to the game.. I donno why.. But the first time i read the summary of the game.. it kinda resembles FSN and the battle for the holy grail... XDDDD
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Unread postby ayadew » August 28th, 2008, 12:10 pm

Master is more suitable if you want a kinky approach
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Unread postby abscess » August 28th, 2008, 11:10 pm

inferno_flamex wrote:
Do you want last names and/or first names?



I feel this is very VITAL should it be in the game... Since in japanese culture, only very close to you would call the main character, their first names...

So I would like the terms for this to switch between Last name, to First name... whenever it is appropriate...

Yes, I agree completely. Having played some old-school "pro"-translated adventure-novel, having the audio say the last name in a very formal way and the text saying the first name in a much more informal way, was quite distracting and even a bit dissappointing. It may be my "weeaboo"-self speaking, but that's what I think.

ayadew wrote:Master is more suitable if you want a kinky approach

Aaahh... really...? I never thought about it like that...:?
Hmmm.... nope! I can't really see it. Master seems good enough. Owner could be interpreted a bit derogatory, since it's (if I'm correct) a guy taking care of some... dog-girls I think, and that word is the only one that comes to mind.
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