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Unread postby Gelmax » August 29th, 2008, 2:44 am

I'm guessing the mixed-up naming of the grenade attacks was just a mistake in the menu screen. As for the damage numbers, it's worth knowing that even in close range, grenades are a lot less reliable than they look. I did some distance testing: where 14m is the closest you can stand to an enemy mech, you have to be within 20-25m (depending on the enemy mech?) in order to reliably get all five grenades to hit; even a little past that, and one to three grenades will usually miss. Past 40 meters, you're no longer guaranteed to be damaged by your own grenades. Past 45 meters, you're out of range for the full three-hit melee combo and can expect two or three grenades to miss. There's vertical variance as well as horizontal, though it's not noticable if you and the enemy are at the same height (while standing on one of those little hills in Stage 2, I was able to chuck the grenades right over the enemy's head at only 45 meters away, though it only happened once). I did all this testing with the Millenium, by the way, but I played a bit with the MS-98 before doing this testing and my experiences with it match these results, so it's likely to apply equally to both mechs.

I finally tested the Crazy Ball, though, and it's even less reliable than the grenades. If the enemy stands completely still in the Crazy Ball's area of effect, it has a chance of being hit zero to three times, with some bias toward the lower numbers (including zero). The lightning version seemed a bit less reliable than the beam version, but I didn't really specifically test for this so it could just be personal bias. The effectiveness seems to vary slightly with distance, with the Crazy Ball seeming to deal at least one hit more often when thrown from 175m than from 150m or 200m; however, there's no use in memorizing any sweetspots because a real enemy's not going to stand still and take it.
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Crazy Ball tests

Unread postby ryujin » August 31st, 2008, 8:49 pm

I did a little test about the Crazy Ball... :o

Under this test would be:
-Damage
-Duration

Basically, there are two types of Crazy Ball:
1. Beam
2. Thunder Beam

Both crazy balls can be reflected via shielding of the Black Comb. :P
Both crazy balls ignore shielding of other mechs. :!:

Now... with the results:

Crazy Ball - both types. [Damage and duration]
Lv. 1 - 120 damage per hit. Between 6-7 sec.
Lv. 2 - 140 damage per hit. Between 12-13 sec.
Lv. 3 - 150 damage per hit. Between 15-16 sec.
Lv. 4 - 160 damage per hit. Between 19-20 sec.
Lv. 5 - 170 damage per hit. Between 22-23 sec.

As you can see, from Lv. 1 to Lv. 2 - the damage increment is 20 instead of the constant 10 (dunno why :? ). And also the duration is nearly doubled. 6-7 sec. [lv.1] x 2 = 12-13 sec. [lv. 2]

There is a specific location to where the Millenium throws the Crazy Ball and it also depends on his location (vertical or horizontal distance, etc.)
It will take some time to master it though. :wink:

So, to sum it all up, the Crazy Ball is called "Crazy" because it is a mix of risky chance and randomness. :o

That's all for now... :wink:
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Unread postby Break » September 3rd, 2008, 7:57 am

Oooh, shield piercing? It sounds nice in theory, but seriously, no one's really going to stand still in the middle of a Crazy Ball laser storm.

As for the latest edits by RedWing, I've reverted them due to a lack of discussion on the matter. I've posted a short rebuttal on the discussion page, and would appreciate discussion before edits to existing material are made - either on here, or in the discussion tab.

With that said, I might have to appoint someone else to keep watch over the wiki, due to my own inactivity (which I honestly have no excuse for).

I wonder if I can get this topic stickied....
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Unread postby Formless » October 26th, 2008, 5:13 pm

I hope you don't mind, I've made some edits on Longhorn Windom Vista.
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Unread postby Break » October 27th, 2008, 8:40 pm

It's fine. I'll add to it when I have the time. Sav would actually be better qualified to talk about Iris than I am.
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Unread postby Rockfire » October 27th, 2008, 9:48 pm

I'm surprised no one has done the XP yet, its a very good mech.
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Unread postby Break » October 29th, 2008, 3:06 pm

Eh, XP's alright. All it's really got going for it is high durability and missile storms, in my eyes.

However, you can go ahead and fill out the section for XP, as I don't consider myself experienced enough with the mech.
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Unread postby Rockfire » October 29th, 2008, 6:20 pm

Posted, I'll love for you to read it but soon after posting my message the server went down :shock:


Edit: nvm its backup:D

Btw, I'm gonna add a picture to the Windom XP log and see if its worth doing it for the rest.
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Unread postby Ianator » October 29th, 2008, 9:25 pm

Would anyone mind if I added a short section on the Mobile Battleship Genocide? I do lurve me some battleships.
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Unread postby Break » October 29th, 2008, 9:28 pm

Why not? It's a fun little extra, though I'm not sure where it can go with strategy, as the wiki focuses on multiplayer.
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Unread postby Rockfire » October 29th, 2008, 9:44 pm

I was thinking, since we pretty much know whats good and bad about each mech, why not have a strategy guide for each mech?
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Unread postby Ianator » October 30th, 2008, 12:06 am

The Battleship has been added, along with control changes and basic usage guide. I'd put a picture up, but there's two problems: My computer can't handle anything higher than "Low Quality" (so it wouldn't be shiny like it's supposed to be), and in Practice Mode all the guns like to clip through the ship to point at mechs on the ground, which isn't pretty either.
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Unread postby Break » October 30th, 2008, 3:50 am

Rockfire wrote:I was thinking, since we pretty much know whats good and bad about each mech, why not have a strategy guide for each mech?


That's the entire point. =) However, I'm not claiming to know enough about every mech, so I need others to fill in the gaps. Hence, the wiki.
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Unread postby Formless » October 30th, 2008, 11:38 pm

I think he means a separate wiki page for each mech. Each linking to the main page, I suppose.
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Unread postby Break » October 31st, 2008, 12:48 am

That would require registering a new wiki and copy-pasting all of the scripts over, as I only signed up for a single page (as opposed to an entire wiki).

I don't think the size of the page makes navigation much of a problem, though.
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Unread postby Formless » November 3rd, 2008, 11:24 pm

Added melee sidestepping.
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Unread postby Break » November 4th, 2008, 6:34 am

Quantified a few pros and cons, various changes all across the board.

Added a to-do list. Part of it is in the restructuring the tiers by adding short explanations of why there are where they are.

The condensed new version would be:

(in rough order of advantages within the tiers:)

* Autowin - Battleship Genocide
* Top - Blackcomb, 2000 SP1, XP SP3,
* Upper - BlackSelena, Anthurium, Cymbidium
* Mid - Vista, Iris, XP, XP-B
* Low - 2000 Vanilla, Millennium
* Bottom - MS98, Millennium-R

SP1's keep-away abilities are enough to bump it up - a property I hadn't properly considered before - and BlackComb is Top instead of God for functional reasons. Partially, it's to stop the "Why do you think BlackComb is absolutely unbeatable?" misinterpretation of it, partially to place the middle tier in the actual middle of the (serious) list, and partially to allow some analytical distance to analyze the mech properly so there aren't any further misinterpretations like the one above.

The only real debatable one is the 2000 Vanilla - it shares the evasive properties of the SP1 but lacks the sheer options it has on offense. It may very well be mid. Thoughts?


So the new section would look something like this:

Autowin Tier:

- Genocide: (I'll leave the jokey explanation as to why it's autowin to someone who's far better at it than I am. :3)


Top Tier:

- BlackComb: Good at medium range, has the tools to keep them there. Difficult to approach, making its theoretically heaviest weakness the one that's also the easiest to mitigate.

- 2000 SP1: Extremely tough to hit with proper application of plane mode, and is solid offensively with its beam rifle and homing lasers. Its durability is much more about having room for error than as a measure of how well the mech survives, due to the mech being very tough to approach as well as hard to strike at range as it moves.

- XP SP3: Extremely good at what it does - it has great melee (power and range being its critical attributes) as well as the drones that set up for it well, but lacking other options at range keeps it from ranking higher.


Upper Tier:

- BlackSelena: If nothing else, the mech is extremely well-rounded, and is hard to catch in a situation in which it can't apply a proper response. Pretty much above-average in many respects.

- Anthurium: Pretty much the long-ranged equivalent of the XP SP3 mixed in with a bit of BlackComb - great options at range, and has the quick laser to pave the way for greater things. Unlike the BlackComb, however, closing against it isn't so difficult.

- Cymbidium: It has tons of trouble closing, but can do horrible things to people once there. High risk, high reward.


Middle Tier:

- Vista: Pretty much the standard of balance in this game. Average all around, effective superlaser, with quick but slightly weak melee capabilities.

- Iris: Versatile crystals add to her offense through no further action on her part, and are devilishly effective en masse combined with homing lasers and fireballs, though she needs time and space in order to pull off her best tricks.

- XP: The best durability in the game, but merely average weapons, with the missile storms only having punch on a charge.

- XP-B: XP without its saber, in a nutshell. Trades off engine power and close-range options for slightly boosted capabilities at range.

Low Tier:

- 2000 Vanilla: Loses what made the 2000 SP1 so great. It has durability and retains the SP1's mobility at the cost of the SP1's most effective options on offense.

- Millennium: Simply the most effective of the grenadiers, as it has a decent crazy ball combined with solid grenades....but not much else.

Bottom Tier:

- MS-98: Millennium with a much less useful single grenade, a smidgeon more durability, and a bit more melee power. Low weapon power keeps it from making pressing assaults.

- Mill-R: Nerfed grenades make them that much more of a gamble, and much less effective. The tradeoff for a better form of a mediocre attack plus a beam rifle is not worth it by any measure.
Last edited by Break on November 4th, 2008, 9:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Unread postby Ianator » November 4th, 2008, 11:17 am

Break wrote:- Genocide: (I'll leave the jokey explanation as to why it's autowin to someone who's far better at it than I am. :3)

Are you referring to its backpedal potential or the immense amount of little bullets it can unleash from a full Weapon Gauge?

Also, something I'd like someone to try: two people - one working the movement, the other using the guns. Awesome? Y/N
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Unread postby Break » November 4th, 2008, 8:49 pm

Partially because it has no place in the competitive tier list due to it not being selectable in multiplayer, partially because it's a sort of joke character to begin with.
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Unread postby Formless » November 4th, 2008, 10:16 pm

Lol, mb that was my edit.
However, it is warranted given that Genocide is an extremely formidable opponent in Blitz (that is, if it's spamming the gatling guns).
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