Coordinating F/HA translations

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sushimonster
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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by sushimonster » December 12th, 2009, 9:09 pm

Amukunau has officially announced that he is keen on joining his and delta's work with ranmafan's project.

Basically, this is a huge step forward for us, and hopefully, this will generate more interest from here on in!

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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by Kid-Wolf » December 12th, 2009, 9:25 pm

Ok after all is said and done what is the name of te group that you guys came up with for this project if you don't mind me asking that.
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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by sushimonster » December 12th, 2009, 9:50 pm

Ahhahaha... Not at all~

Well. I'll discuss this with ranmafan and the others. I personally never actually thought naming cause we have a free/open translation interface. As a result, I think it will be best if ranmafan alone came up with a group name (since he was the sole person who revived this translation in the first place)...

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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by goforit1 » January 2nd, 2010, 4:25 am

Thank you, thank you, thank you from an old Type Moon fan.

(Well, I consider it an old interest, since I've been following this sort of thing off and on since long before UBW was released by Mirror Moon. Compared to some of you people that have been involved in this from before F/SN was even released, I haven't been around THAT long.)

This is the first time I've checked in with Mirror Moon or Beast's Lair in at least a year, so it's very exciting to see that F/HA hasn't been completely abandoned!

It's especially nice to see that you were able to get in contact with many of the old translators (and recover all the work that they've already done?).

So, many thanks from a long time leecher, and keep up the amazing work, no matter how long it takes!

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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by sushimonster » January 2nd, 2010, 12:03 pm

First beta patch released.
Check out http://tsukuru.info/tlwiki/index.php?ti ... w_Ataraxia for more info - it's work-in-progress for now.

Anyways, enjoy, and wishing everyone a happy new year. A big thanks is required for the translators whose nicks are found at the TLWiki, ranmafan and rampage with the image editing, and everyone else who is contributing to this project~~

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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by Kid-Wolf » January 3rd, 2010, 10:16 pm

That's good to hear that you have a beta of what was colaberated now. I am now wondering once this is done will it be like the installer that mirror moon makes, or will it be one of those English Patch Work after installing the game from Japanese?

By that I mean will the installer do all the work with the instalation and whatnot, or is it just going to be just a patch for the game that is already installed?
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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by sushimonster » January 3rd, 2010, 10:55 pm

The group (yeah... still nameless) would have to discuss this.

Personally, I think an installer like MM would be best, ie, checking for a disc to discourage warez. Though that means we'll need a programmer. [cough - help-us-message - cough]

But at the rate things are going, we probably will be implementing the 'move-English-files-to-existing-game-directory' technique.

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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by ranmafan » January 4th, 2010, 3:54 am

sushimonster wrote:The group (yeah... still nameless) would have to discuss this.

Personally, I think an installer like MM would be best, ie, checking for a disc to discourage warez.
NO. Please, don't even try.

I mean, sure, an installer might be a good idea (though it's unlikely we'll have much more than an xp3 file to drop into the game folder), but I've had plenty of troubles with the fscking game "copy protection" (my (box) copy of FHA and FSN included) that I wouldn't want to do that.

Not our job, hell, Type-Moon could even argue it's not entirely our content. Remember that what we're doing is a grey area in the first place - the only reason TM doesn't (yet) care is probably because there's no English market for them, anyway.

(I'd love to go on about the idiocy that the copyright law has reached in most developed countries, but I think I'll pass for now...)

Another problem is that an xp3 file is just a package that you can examine yourself - while an installer is an executable that is essentially a black box and takes a bit of trust to run...

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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by ranmafan » January 4th, 2010, 4:01 am

Kid-Wolf wrote: By that I mean will the installer do all the work with the instalation and whatnot, or is it just going to be just a patch for the game that is already installed?
Ah, I get the question now.

It'll almost certainly be a patch for an existing installation - it's far easier to do and takes up much less space than any other options.

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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by sushimonster » January 4th, 2010, 4:03 am

ranmafan wrote: NO. Please, don't even try.

I mean, sure, an installer might be a good idea (though it's unlikely we'll have much more than an xp3 file to drop into the game folder), but I've had plenty of troubles with the fscking game "copy protection" (my (box) copy of FHA and FSN included) that I wouldn't want to do that.

Not our job, hell, Type-Moon could even argue it's not entirely our content. Remember that what we're doing is a grey area in the first place - the only reason TM doesn't (yet) care is probably because there's no English market for them, anyway.
Ahahaha... I was kinda expecting that actually. I'll have to agree with your copy protection theory there. We are in a 'grey' zone as it is...

Dropping just a patch.xp3 does sound like a better option for us - less coding on our part ^_^*
Just need to get the repacking figured out then - would anybody be able to assist with xp3 packing? We are able to extract the required images for editing no problems. It's just getting them back to a xp3 batch.

It's not a big issue at the moment though - we are still testing and translating this and that so it won't be 'absolutely' neccessary till everything is finished.

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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by Gunbladeuser » January 4th, 2010, 2:31 pm

ranmafan wrote:NO. Please, don't even try.

I mean, sure, an installer might be a good idea (though it's unlikely we'll have much more than an xp3 file to drop into the game folder), but I've had plenty of troubles with the fscking game "copy protection" (my (box) copy of FHA and FSN included) that I wouldn't want to do that.

Not our job, hell, Type-Moon could even argue it's not entirely our content. Remember that what we're doing is a grey area in the first place - the only reason TM doesn't (yet) care is probably because there's no English market for them, anyway.

(I'd love to go on about the idiocy that the copyright law has reached in most developed countries, but I think I'll pass for now...)
Do you mind explaining that one more time since I didn't quite get what you mean?

If you implement something that checks for the disc, it should be okay, shouldn't it?
So I don't know what this has to do with copy protection...

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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by sushimonster » January 4th, 2010, 2:52 pm

Gunbladeuser wrote: Do you mind explaining that one more time since I didn't quite get what you mean?

If you implement something that checks for the disc, it should be okay, shouldn't it?
So I don't know what this has to do with copy protection...
The copy protection in FHA is pretty complex. Trying to intergrate the copy check into an installer (which in itself is going to be quite a feat) is not going to make things any faster in getting this project finished. 'message' the moderator here would probably ditto this fact...

Like, if we were EXTREMELY afraid of this translation being used with warez copies (we are to a certain aspect, so no worries 'message' ^_^), you wouldn't have the public beta until we get an installer up and running, which equates to more time being required (plus the beta probably won't be public in the first place). And if it ain't public, we get fans out there raising doubts like they did with Amukunau and delta... So I think you can understand an installer (and one that intergrates copy protection at that) will introduce more headaches than it attempts to get rid of. And I'm pretty sure the project leader of all this (ranmafan) will agree with me on the above.

So basically, I don't think it will necessarily be essential to check for a disc for the same reasons ranmafan pointed out. We'll probably see how things turn out in the coming few months, but don't hold your breath (for a copy protection checking installer, or any installer for that matter....)

And hopefully 'message' won't give us a verbal spanking for not implementing an installer...

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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by ranmafan » January 4th, 2010, 4:02 pm

Gunbladeuser wrote:Do you mind explaining that one more time since I didn't quite get what you mean?
Short and blunt version of my post: copy protection sucks, and I'm not about to waste time implementing it.

The other point: buy a copy of the game to use the English patch (and IF you're lucky, it will run without the "nodvd" crack).

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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by Message » January 4th, 2010, 6:13 pm

sushimonster wrote:The copy protection in FHA is pretty complex. Trying to integrate the copy check into an installer (which in itself is going to be quite a feat) is not going to make things any faster in getting this project finished. 'message' the moderator here would probably ditto this fact...
Actually, our installers only perform a disc check, not copy protection. Any protection can be broken, so I do agree with you that it's a waste of time to try to make a water-tight installer in this respect. But a disc check is a lot better than nothing at all, if you want to at least pretend that you're discouraging warez use. And you'll need a disc check in any case, if you want to support clean, straight-to-English installations. (These full installation modes can be tricky if the game disc uses weird compression, but can be trivially simple if it's just a matter of copying files.)

On the other hand, I am currently in the testing phase of a new installer framework I created, which supports user-level installations and only requests administrator access if the user tries to do something that actually requires it. This will make it behave a lot more friendly to the end user. Once it's finished, it'll be very easy to make a very powerful installer for most any translation project. So since I'm putting all this work in anyway, if you guys at some point want a neat installer package for your translation I'd be happy to help you out.

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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by Bejarid » January 6th, 2010, 3:07 am

Oh, great news Message.

If it can handle things like read/write in the registry, disk check and can be extended to support specific action, that could be very usefull.
Easy to use installer frameworks are quite rare.

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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by ranmafan » January 6th, 2010, 4:18 am

Bejarid wrote:Oh, great news Message.

If it can handle things like read/write in the registry, disk check and can be extended to support specific action, that could be very usefull.
Easy to use installer frameworks are quite rare.
IMHO, now that I think about it, a disc check for installation is stepping quite a bit over the line. You're now handling purely TM's content, in full, without their permission, with a (maybe) reverse-engineered mechanism, in a way they never specifically approved. While the installer itself might not be illegal (except in US and a few other places with particularly screwed up copyright laws), you certainly won't be making friends with them.

Either way, the point is mostly moot in our case. Unless we can somehow get every single contributor to approve of this (I certainly won't), trying to lock their content like this is not the original project's goal and unethical at best (not to mention futile).

Even for MM... do you really want to deal with false positives (which you WILL have - noDVD cracks have a good reason to exist) and a whole lot of potential legal (and ethical) issues just to save a few minutes off installation process?

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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by Kid-Wolf » January 6th, 2010, 2:54 pm

Well for some reason the only way to play it is with the No-DVD Crack, and I don't even know why it's like that, but it might have something to do with my not understanding Moon Runes at all.

In any case hearing that Message would like to create an Installer for this is good news due to him knowing how the kirikiri setup works. From the looks of it you could say that this game could be a series that Message did the Installer for aside from the Metly Blood games.
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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by HeeroYuy » January 6th, 2010, 6:36 pm

Hello everyone, I heard about your project through GNDynames's blog, and after trying out the early beta you had on your TLWiki, I was quite impressed at the progress you all have made! I noticed on your wiki it said that you might be looking for image editors? Unfortunately I've only got 4 semesters of college level Japanese (2 years), so I'm not a great translator, but I can handle simpler translations on my own assuming I know the kanji (or can look it up). I more than know my way around Photoshop and GIMP and I'd be happy to help. Might I be able to lend a hand?

(I just created an account here on MM today, but I've been around on the Beast's Lair for a few months.)

Also, about making an "installer", if the objective is just to create a single file that can autonomously patch the game, couldn't you use just a simple self extracting batch file that just dumps the files to the program folder? If all you are aiming to do with it is make it simple for users then that should be a lot easier to make than something that modifies a lot of the original game files. But if you're implying using it to actually modify the xp3 files and whatnot, then I misunderstood.

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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by ranmafan » January 6th, 2010, 6:56 pm

HeeroYuy wrote:Hello everyone, I heard about your project through GNDynames's blog, and after trying out the early beta you had on your TLWiki, I was quite impressed at the progress you all have made! I noticed on your wiki it said that you might be looking for image editors? Unfortunately I've only got 4 semesters of college level Japanese (2 years), so I'm not a great translator, but I can handle simpler translations on my own assuming I know the kanji (or can look it up). I more than know my way around Photoshop and GIMP and I'd be happy to help. Might I be able to lend a hand?
Get something like Rikaichan and you'll probably be fine for anything, yep. Just have a quick look over the wiki beforehand. There's a few folders with untranslated/unverified images in SVN, look through that, drop me a PM and I'll give you write access.
(I just created an account here on MM today, but I've been around on the Beast's Lair for a few months.)
I'm trying to keep up with the BL thread, too, but it's kind of difficult without reply notifications...
Also, about making an "installer", if the objective is just to create a single file that can autonomously patch the game, couldn't you use just a simple self extracting batch file that just dumps the files to the program folder?
That's essentially all that's needed, yeah. There's nothing that needs to be modified in-place right now. The discussion above is about an installer that would take the original (Japanese) disc and install the game in *English* on the PC.

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Re: Coordinating F/HA translations

Unread post by sushimonster » January 17th, 2010, 9:17 am

EDIT - Mirror moon is NOT translating Fate/hollow ataraxia. Please, do NOT query the moderators / translators here regarding it.
----------------------------------------------------
HeeroYuy wrote:Hello everyone, I heard about your project through GNDynames's blog, and after trying out the early beta you had on your TLWiki, I was quite impressed at the progress you all have made! I noticed on your wiki it said that you might be looking for image editors? Unfortunately I've only got 4 semesters of college level Japanese (2 years), so I'm not a great translator, but I can handle simpler translations on my own assuming I know the kanji (or can look it up). I more than know my way around Photoshop and GIMP and I'd be happy to help. Might I be able to lend a hand?
Hello HeeroYuy
At the moment, our yet-to-be-named group have three people working on the images. Ranmafan (though part time, he helps when we ask for it ^_^), rampage202, and me (sushimonster). The view-only SVN repo at http://vps.k-link.net/websvn

Check inside trunk and you'll see what we've done so far. Not alot, but we are making some (slow) progress all the same.
And don't worry about your Japanese vocab. Rampage and I are not the best speakers / writers, and I'm kinda guessing ranmafan is the best out of the three of us, but we are trudging by with online translators and the rest.

Our current status; we (rampage202 and sushimonster) are stuck with a limited Japanese vocab at the moment. We've done what we can, and are waiting for a Entrans update and/or a image editor with superior Japanese vocab knowledge...

We have approx 1000 images to get through, and most outstanding are from the minigames.
Check out the TLWiki for more info.
Last edited by sushimonster on January 17th, 2010, 12:10 pm, edited 14 times in total.

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