A map loophole?

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A map loophole?

Unread postby Faranth » May 14th, 2008, 11:50 pm

So... i was thinking. Utawarerumono world turns out to be our own, right?

So where it is exactly taking place? I looked on game map and it doesn't resemble anything on Earth.
Also, if the main guy was attacked by DeathRayFromAbove by his clone before he was sealed, and it looked like a pretty big explosion in the FMV, why isn't there anything on a map that reflects this? Say, a big lake, cove or depression?
Another point - why is nobody using a war fleet of any sort despite having the perfect coastline for it and it being a pretty cheap and fast way to quickly transport troops? The only instance I can think of is the Rabbit clan taking that island in the north where they imprisoned the Great Priest [and they somehow took their humongous mechas with them, not to mention all those prototypes and incomplete robots - so they have a stron navy] plus the way the main gang took to capture this island.

Also, why not firearms? It's the perfect weapon of a peasant mob [certainly better than all these long swords they've got - and the game established the fact that ironworkers were a pretty rare occupation right in the beginning] and if main hero can figure out complex fertilizers, why not gunpowder?
After all, both large empires attacking them were using cavalry and as Hussites demonstrated peasant mob [all the main hero got as army] can defeat armored knights using cheap handguns and spears - way cheaper than bows and swords, not to mention much faster training. In fact, Hussites beat ten crusades in a row, which would have ended troubles with these nomadic invaders right there [although then Touka and Karura wouldn't get to use their sword skills, with Touka possibly killed in the moment she shoved]. Plus, given how fragile these Humongous Mecha were, a shover of good old fashioned musket balls would have tuned them into a really big, dead targets. Wagenburg would be good, too.

And, how long exactly the game lasts? A month? A year? A decade? It cannot be too quick, given Hakuoro's accomplishments, but the season never seemed to change, despite them talking about crops and whatnot.
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Unread postby Lexica-chan » May 15th, 2008, 1:19 am

Well, I can't speak for a large portion of your argument... maybe write some of it off as postapocalyptic + artistic license? I mean, if the concept of concrete was lost from the Roman era and had to be reinvented, it's quite possible that more was lost.

And there was probably a bit of distance between the re-created "humans" in the laboratories, versus what we recognize as human. Separation between the lab rat and the scientist, as it were. Why would the scientist share their knowledge with "people", when the scientists don't even gratify their subjects with a name?


As far as the map, though. I kinda disagree.... I would be inclined to say it's a somewhat general map of Honshu, Japan, rotated to be more horizontal. At least, that's how I always assumed that it was, and what my mind's eye saw.
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Unread postby abscess » May 15th, 2008, 2:47 am

For the land I was thinking the same. In which part of the world does this take place? We can't know for sure. I never got to see it as a rotated Japan, but it well could be for almost all japanese stories tend to take place in Japan with japanese characters. But for all I know, it could even be a new Pangea or another continental cluster that we will never see for a lack of a long enough life span.

For the time I guess its more than a year. A lot of battles take place in just words and are not explained in full detail, but campaigns against countries ARE long. Let's say that each campaign would take about three months (not much time if you ask me, but it's an arbitrary number that I took) and multimply it by the number of countries the main characters fought, in no specific order:
1.- The country where you wake up. I don't remember the original name, but it's renamed
2.- Against
Shikerpecim's ouro, Niwe,
whom attacks first.
3.- The rabbit-people, which I think it's one of the longest ones.
4.-
Na-Tunk's
rebellion.
5.- The country that Touka was helping before joining you (I forgot it's name too).

3x5=15 months more or less. Let's put some four months in between each campaign to let the main characters relax and develop a bit and you've got 19 months. Adding an error of 2 months the less it could have taken is 17 months and at max 21 months (please note that I took an arbitrary number here as a starting point). It's almost two years going from war to another so I think two years is not enough time but thinking that it's a GAME it could be only one year...

The fact that in the ending Yuzuha
had Hakuoro's baby before dying (damn! that was the only character I really liked),
and supposing the gestation time is the same of human beings (9 months), then AT LEAST it's a bit more than a year, maybe 14 months to give "enough" time for the characters to get in and out continuously of battles.

And no, apparently the seasons don't change, but that's just graphic work. Sure, like anyone, I would have liked to see snowy fields in winter, lands bathed in the hot summer sun, flowers blooming in spring and leaves getting yellow and leaving the bare trunk of a tree in autumn; but, was it REALLY needed? No, it was not. The fact that they talk about crops and such would hint that time DOES pass, and it appears to be more than a year, perhaps even more than two years.

On firearms. I think that would wound the feeling of fantasy from the story (
although it ends up having a SciFi twist in it
). Hakuoro WAS able to develop fertilizers, and it seems that Hakuoro did create gunpowder when they fought
against Shikerpeci's invasion
, but before being
the Iceman or Wista-something
he was an
unnamed archeologist
, which means he was a scientist of sorts, and to be a scientist you have to have common knowledge of chemistry, and that could explain how he created the fertilizer and apparent gunpowder.

He did know how to do iron-work, but that can be read even on the net, even if it is a very basic iron-work; and remember that they said that it wasn't anything fancy. Firearms aren't that common a knowledge. Yeah, maybe you can search on the web too to check what parts you need to get to create a
handgun or a rifle, but MAKING those artifacts is much more diffuclt than making mere iron-work like vases or simple blades. He was an
archeologist,
not a weapon-maker.

The reason why the continent didn't have a BIGASS hole or something when that thing blowed is still unknown to me. Perhaps that only killed living beings, maybe it was something magical and weird that can't have a reasonable explanaiton, it could be something else besides an explotion too. The FMV doesn't show much either.

The reason why they decided to go to the island where
Urto's and Kamyu's dad
was being held with so few numbers and why it had so many unfinished "mechas" (I also forgot their name) is explained. If I remember correctly someone says that they could only take few people to the island and, since it was an experimenting ground, it was full of weird shit, namely the unfinished "mechas". Why the rabbit-people didn't position a naval fleet is unkwnown, but all we know is that their strenght is almost only those mechas and nothing else, and having a mecha or two go in there could have been made in a rather small boat instead of a bunch of war frigates or something.

Also note that the mechas are not so bland as you describe them.
In a battle you have to protect the entrance for a number of turns from a horde of angry rabbit-people controling those things, and if you attack them you do zero damage to 'em. It's not until Genjimaru "explains" how to attack them when you are able to hurt them.


I think I answerd, if not all, almost every question you got. Hope I helped in something. Later mate.
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Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Re: A map loophole?

Unread postby Balcerzak » May 15th, 2008, 10:28 am

Holy unmasked spoilers, Batman! Put some tags on either your post, or the thread as a whole, please.

Also, you're asking a whole lot of practical questions, and ignoring that this is a fantasy game. Use some modicum of suspension of disbelief.

As far as specific answers, there are already some decent ones provided by others.
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Unread postby md » May 15th, 2008, 11:15 pm

Realistically, the game should span several years, but somehow not enough for Aruru to get noticably older. The time requirements of setting up logistics of an empire and building things would indicate many years of work, but the character interactions suggest only months. Kuuya seems to visit once a month, for instance.

Just one of Hakuoro's abilities to perfectly govern an empire I guess.
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Unread postby abscess » May 16th, 2008, 1:05 am

md wrote:Realistically, the game should span several years, but somehow not enough for Aruru to get noticably older. The time requirements of setting up logistics of an empire and building things would indicate many years of work, but the character interactions suggest only months. Kuuya seems to visit once a month, for instance.

Just one of Hakuoro's abilities to perfectly govern an empire I guess.


Yeah, no one seems to get older or more mature. The only one that apparently changes a bit, except from Kuuya for obvious reasons, is Kamyu, but the creepy thing is that it is said that she is around Aruruw's age, which would instantly put her into the jail b8 category. And that would mean that the main guy was
raEpd by a kid,
something that I find stupidly hilarious!

I still think that the game time-line suggest at least two years. The problem is that Aruruw never seems to grow up MENTALLY. I mean... two years, man! If we say that she starts around 11 years old, she ends up being 12 or 13! maybe even 14!! Kids grow up damn fast around those ages! Is she 'tarded or something?!

P.S: I think Karura says that Urto had Fumiruir
(the baby a strange woman gives you)
for a couple of months. Am I right on that one?
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby X-Calibar » May 16th, 2008, 5:33 pm

abscess wrote:
md wrote:Realistically, the game should span several years, but somehow not enough for Aruru to get noticably older. The time requirements of setting up logistics of an empire and building things would indicate many years of work, but the character interactions suggest only months. Kuuya seems to visit once a month, for instance.

Just one of Hakuoro's abilities to perfectly govern an empire I guess.


Yeah, no one seems to get older or more mature. The only one that apparently changes a bit, except from Kuuya for obvious reasons, is Kamyu, but the creepy thing is that it is said that she is around Aruruw's age, which would instantly put her into the jail b8 category. And that would mean that the main guy was
raEpd by a kid,
something that I find stupidly hilarious!
I still think that the game time-line suggest at least two years. The problem is that Aruruw never seems to grow up MENTALLY. I mean... two years, man! If we say that she starts around 11 years old, she ends up being 12 or 13! maybe even 14!! Kids grow up damn fast around those ages! Is she 'tarded or something?!

First off, except for Hakuoro... [and even I question him]
They AREN'T even Human!!!
Sure they may look similar, but they can use magic, they have wings, fuzzy ears, various types of tails... But, we don't know how much influence
that Hakuoro's alien side has on the others. For crying out loud they created Mutsumi... Sure she's human-like. She can also exist without a body, before reforming and surviving through the ages.
Er, my point is comparing Human age, intellect, etc to Utawarerumono's is kinda absurd.

If you want to compare humans anyways, think back to medieval times and earlier and earlier. Life expectancy was much lower; as well as people taking brides young, having children at very young ages. 14 too young? Probably not. Today's a different age though... Utawarerumono's war-torn world doesn't look like ours yet...


Also this from another post of mine :
Image
Compare how old they look to how old Hakuoro looks in the first scene when he looks in the mirror...
He looks about the same to me, but it's all anime age. Meaning looks can be decieving, they can look older than they may seem...
Such as did you know Aruruw's voiceover Miyuki Sawashiro... is 23 years old?? :OOOOO
She sounds soooooo cute and young though...

... Aruruw is "'tarded"... ?
:evil: Mukkur... Go!

Just because Hakuoro's interactions with Aruruw seem like that of a spoiled child, does not equate her to being "tarded".
She lost her mother and father once and Hakuoro is like a dream come true for Aruruw...
Talking a certain way with someone does not mean she talks the same way to others. Her actions actually makes sense... she's just much better with nature. AKA the Mother of the forest, all the animals seem to react to her very quickly. And that same way she acts to animals rubs off in how she acts with people. Very timid at first, but after gaining someones full trust you end up like this :


And don't forget she was basically mostly raised by Eruruw and Tuskur. Not by going to school for a "standard" education.
EDIT: Hope I made some kind of point, I ran out of time!
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Unread postby abscess » May 16th, 2008, 7:45 pm

X-Calibar wrote:First off, except for Hakuoro... [and even I question him]
They AREN'T even Human!!!
Sure they may look similar, but they can use magic, they have wings, fuzzy ears, various types of tails... But, we don't know how much influence
that Hakuoro's alien side has on the others. For crying out loud they created Mutsumi... Sure she's human-like. She can also exist without a body, before reforming and surviving through the ages.
Er, my point is comparing Human age, intellect, etc to Utawarerumono's is kinda absurd.


[spoil]But don't forget that they were based off from humans. They are not exactly human anymore (although in the anime they reffer to themselves as "just humans"), but from what I got from the story, they are genetically similar to us, much more than the similarity we share with apes such as the chimpanzees or the orangutans or any other major primate species.


X-Calibar wrote:If you want to compare humans anyways, think back to medieval times and earlier and earlier. Life expectancy was much lower; as well as people taking brides young, having children at very young ages. 14 too young? Probably not. Today's a different age though... Utawarerumono's war-torn world doesn't look like ours yet...[/spoil]


That's right, kids were not kids, they were treated like little adults, meaning they had to be prepared for marriage in a very early age, that goes to have little time for childhood (maybe even none) and being able to act like a spoiled child when coming from a little village that is often ransacked by tribute/tax-collectors was practically not an option and for that reason the kid in question had to grow up damn fast.

X-Calibar wrote:Also this from another post of mine :
Image
Compare how old they look to how old Hakuoro looks in the first scene when he looks in the mirror...
He looks about the same to me, but it's all anime age. Meaning looks can be decieving, they can look older than they may seem...
Such as did you know Aruruw's voiceover Miyuki Sawashiro... is 23 years old?? :OOOOO
She sounds soooooo cute and young though...


Hmm... I don't remember talking about looks but yes, I agree with you that looks ARE decieving, how can you measure the age of a cartoon? it's almost impossible.

About Aruruw's voice actress, I didn't know that, I never put any effort on knowing about them in this case, but her age and the character's age diffference tend to happen a lot. In my country there is a famous (as much as a voice actor/actress can be here...) voice actress that is around 50s/60s years of age and specializes in dubbing little kids and has an incredible range of ages to emulate, from male or female kids to much older women going through sexy girls and such! Very imppressive!

X-Calibar wrote:... Aruruw is "'tarded"... ?
:evil: Mukkur... Go!

Hahaha! I was just half joking there, man! Sorry if I made ya angry.

X-Calibar wrote:Just because Hakuoro's interactions with Aruruw seem like that of a spoiled child, does not equate her to being "tarded".
[...]
And don't forget she was basically mostly raised by Eruruw and Tuskur. Not by going to school for a "standard" education.


Yeah. I get your point. She acted like a spoiled child WITH Hakuoro because she considered him his father and all that but with other people she distanced herself a bit in the beggining. Where I disagree with you is that she doesn't seem to understand much about death when
Tuskur is killed while protecting her, I don't remember if the same happens when the guy with the axe (whose name I alrady forgot) is found dead because of the injuries.
For one to understand the meaning of death does not mean one has to go through "standard education", something that apparently was completely forgotten there (talking about good luck charms and all that crap is proof enough).

Comparing her to Kamyu, Aruruw seems, to me, a bit underdeveloped in the maturity department, not speaking in biological terms of course. Yeah, it could be attributed to the fact that we only see her interact most of the time in the main guy's point of view and for that reason we mostly see her as a spoiled child but I was expecting her to grow some kind of a... "darker" or "more grown up" personality for the sole reason that
she DOES go to battle with Mukkur and experiences first hand the massacre and personally sees the guts and blood of the enemies Mukkur kills and, if I remember correctly, eats; because she herself orders it to do so. She killed family men, even if men from other countries, they still were fathers, brothers, husbands and somebody else's sons and if that doesn't cause any kind of dent in her then it must mean she really must be too fucked up to even care about that anymore or she has some real nerves of steel!


But then again, it's "just a game"... I guess reading Berserk has made me expect so much out of war-torn fantasy worlds.

X-Calibar wrote:


Very interesting link. The one problem I see with that is when the lion confuses her with food or just goes in hunting mode when she is around... well, I'm afraid there won't be much left to fill a bucket. That shit happens, mate.
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby TheXev » May 19th, 2008, 6:21 am

That's strange... that's my local TV Station.. Local 6 (yeah, real original name, right?) out of Orlando FL... O_o
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Unread postby abscess » May 20th, 2008, 12:15 am

TheXev wrote:That's strange... that's my local TV Station.. Local 6 (yeah, real original name, right?) out of Orlando FL... O_o

Really? do you know if the lion already ate the lady?
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby kensain » September 20th, 2008, 1:31 pm

abscess wrote:
TheXev wrote:That's strange... that's my local TV Station.. Local 6 (yeah, real original name, right?) out of Orlando FL... O_o

Really? do you know if the lion already ate the lady?


That matches far too well with your avatar! :shock:
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The one who sees only flaws. Repeat.
The one who is unable to see alternative. Repeat.
The one who sees the unattainable perfection. Repeat.
The one who is blind. Relinquish.
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