A bit... disgusting?

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Faranth
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A bit... disgusting?

Unread post by Faranth » March 4th, 2008, 11:48 am

Well, fisrt, I want to thank the translators for a good job. The game was nice, funny, and even the ending, while sad, didn't feel bad or forced
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Ahem.

That being said, I had one huge problem with the game. Namely, the
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Spoilers for each girl follow, each one being spoilered in her own box so the people that haven't finished the game can read up to the point they've got to.
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I have on more scene to unlock, and by god, I hope that isn't the
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or, even worse,
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because if it is, i swear I'll break my game disc in half.

Don't get me wrong - i get the game knowing perfectly well what king of game it is. I have nothing against rough sex, or even a rape once or twice, as long as it fits the story. I like rpgs, visual novels and I liked the game.

But the problem is, the point where I draw the line would be using mind-altering drugs and mass raping [and, uch, children]. You know, while most of these scenes fit the game they were so exaggerated that the only hurt the characters and killed half my enjoyment and forced me to dislike some of the better characters. It didn't helped that most of the girls looked like children - with the exception of Karura and Touka. Even Urtorij in the scene where she was crying with the main hero was drawn surprisingly short [compared to hero] and child-like - which surprised me, because she was presented as an adult through most of the game. You know, I can buy that Ilia it 19 years old with growth disorder, but this game didn't even pretended to make the girls adults. Did it really had to be a game with forced sex and characters that look suspiciously similar to children? As I said in Eruru section - maybe Japanese like girls that look like children, but in western culture it is mostly repulsing.

Why the had to ruin it so much? Couldn't they get someone who could have written some believable sex scenes? I guess I'll never understand Japan. :roll:

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Unread post by Message » March 4th, 2008, 12:11 pm

It is the problem with almost every eroge: In order to make it sell in Japan, they add scenes that cater to the Japanese eroge audience. And for some reason, they like this kind of stuff. No clue why, but then again I have no clue why the allow a thing like 'toddlercon' to come into existence, either. As a Christian I can only say that Japan has its own category of sins. And as a game player, I can only feel annoyed at the apparent need for unneeded junk that only takes away from a game's qualities.

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Ciel
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Unread post by Ciel » March 4th, 2008, 1:35 pm

You're kinda wrong about Kamyu, but I guess since you didn't see the last H scene you don't know some stuff about her yet.
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Also I dunno about you, but if i were on Hakuoro's place i'd pretty much enjoy the moments instead of jailing everyone like you say you'd do. :P
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Ryuusoul
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Unread post by Ryuusoul » March 4th, 2008, 6:41 pm

Kind of high strung, aren't you?

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Unread post by Faranth » March 4th, 2008, 6:46 pm

Message wrote:It is the problem with almost every eroge: In order to make it sell in Japan, they add scenes that cater to the Japanese eroge audience. And for some reason, they like this kind of stuff. No clue why, but then again I have no clue why the allow a thing like 'toddlercon' to come into existence, either. As a Christian I can only say that Japan has its own category of sins. And as a game player, I can only feel annoyed at the apparent need for unneeded junk that only takes away from a game's qualities.
You know, I haven't got the problem with content specifically tailored to Japanese; after all, the game was supposed to be bought with people with such tastes. I might dislike them; That's why I haven't liked Eruruw. If only she was a bit taller, less loli...

But I digress again. I know full well there are going to be strange and weird things; I ordered the game for the story, not X scenes. I've grown out of them, but I can still appreciate if they are done right. I don't mind rape, tentacle, and other scary fetishes; I can click through them if I happen to dislike them, or simply delete the game. It is game for a different culture after all.

No, the problem was, as I pointed out, with raping children and/or victims of mind drugs; that's where the things begun to slid from very morally ambiguous [as examples above] into Evil with capital 'E'. Were are talking about hurting victims that are unable to comprehend what is happening to them or defend themselves, much less disagreeing with the whole situation. Even if that wasn't crime [incidentally, it is] in Japan I don't see how drug-rapping was necessary for every single H-scene in the game. Was the writer so frustrated?

It is my fifth VSN after my friend incidentally managed to hook me on them and it is also the first that had this amount of Evil things for the sake of evil things. Why they didn't make them into a consensual sex? Or even regular rapes? What's next? A game about a boy with rape pills? About a Waffen-SS... [but I digress again].

Let's see - Castle Fantasia 2. Also medieval, hero is also a military genius, can sleep with up to 4 girls from 7 in one game - and somehow, all of these were pretty normal nights. FSN - in translated part [I Neeed Maaaana!] heroine turns into a bedwarmer for the rest of the game and first H-scene was quasi-rape anyway, but still, nothing like this. Utw - all the drugs the medicine and magic of that era can provide are used in one sick rape-fest. Please, don't tell me that this is how regular VSN in the Japan looks like, and I've been hitting exceptions till now. Even the one purely H-based VSN I incidentally got from a friend in USA [Tsuki] had only a few scenes that could have been called outright rape and the hero was possessed by demon anyway. :roll:

Oh, and incidentally - I don't want to offend you, but while I live in the so called 'West' I'm not a Christian :wink: and perhaps that's why I'm feeling so strongly about mind-rapping and hurting children.

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Re: A bit... disgusting?

Unread post by Hyperbeast » March 4th, 2008, 6:46 pm

Faranth wrote:Post
Welcome to hentai games. I see you're new here.

That aside, yes the hentai scenes detract from the game. They can do that in lots of games. Just do what I do and skip them if you don't want to put up with their bullshit, then pretend they never happened.

One thing in this game that really pisses me off is that they make Eruruu into the main heroine... And then have Hakuoro fuck everyone else as well. Eruruu must be the most forgiving girl ever. It just cheapened the relationship between them.

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Unread post by Faranth » March 4th, 2008, 7:06 pm

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I'll answer that when I'll finally finish it. From the comments of my friend it seems that her blood drinking habit, mind control magic and other weird things she did were thrown in just for the sake of H-scenes, as the main hero never did that. Couldn't they make the scene something more realistic instead of pulling things out of nowhere that were never explained later? That was even better example of unnecessary rape, then.
Ciel wrote: Also I dunno about you, but if i were on Hakuoro's place i'd pretty much enjoy the moments instead of jailing everyone like you say you'd do. :P
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You know... Okay. I might live with horny girls that desperately want bed - I pointed out that I only have problem with them using mind-shutting drugs to rape main hero or to be raped in return, not to mention the lack of slightest bit of handwaving them as adults, not children.

The game itself could have been much better - I just got to the scene with
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Compared to others, it was on a completely different level - no drugs, no rape, well, it had the vibe of assaulting the crippled child but at least it was consensual. Well, I guess raping her was a bit too much even for the writer. Too bad it wasn't too much in other scenes.

But then, I imagined
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replacing her in that scene - and, well, that would have been perfect scene well fitting the story as a whole. Instead of that forced shyness she displayed in her own scene her character would have fit that which
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displayed much better. Even the part about her knowing how to make a baby but not how to actually begin to make one would have fit much better than that idiotic 'drinking' scene - if a blind girl who has never left her room does know then her not knowing ceased to make any sense at all. Ugh.

Oh, and incidentally, I imagined
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Too bad it didn't happened :lol:

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Unread post by X-Calibar » March 4th, 2008, 8:27 pm

[I wrote this post before Ryuusoul's post, but forgot to hit submit..., haven't read the new posts]


@Farnath mostly
Image
With Eruruw, compare Eruruw to Hakuoro [from the first scene with the mirror...] They look about the same age to me. ANIME age, meaning they can be older than you may percieve them to be.
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Even Urtorij in the scene where she was crying with the main hero was drawn surprisingly short [compared to hero] and child-like
There is a reason for this. Urto has always been one who had to act her position, be there for people. Act far older than others her age. [act like her father] In the scene she breaks down, she is letting it all go, she is just a girl who has lost something so precious to her. When people break down and cry like that, they don't look like themselves...

If the visual novel had been done through real-life photos, you probably wouldn't have a problem. Because with anime, most people look younger than they are. Aruruw for instance looks very young in the game. Yet, I imagine she is probably like 14-16? What about her child-like behavior? Eruruw and Aruruw's parents were lost at a very young age, leaving her sister Eruruw to take care of them. Never knowing your parents for very long, living life on your own, yet being pampered by a village who takes care of you... and seeing someone like Hakuoro who looks remarkably similar to her late father, and who can act the part as well...
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The game didn't factor ero as an important part of the story, even though ero by nature [at least the people I know] has a big impact on people. What would have been "believeable" sex scenes?
Choose one girl, and follow their path to happiness? Sadly, the game has No choices. Therefore, there was only one alternative... If it's going to be a PC game, and include ero; you have to be inventive, and memorible. Each of Utawarerumono's scenes seem to explore that a little.

WHAT you wanted is the All-Ages PS2 version with VOICES, then you wouldn't be complaining :P
Sadly we currently do not have that...

My monster complaint though... was ....................................
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Last edited by X-Calibar on March 5th, 2008, 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread post by zweiterversuch » March 4th, 2008, 11:30 pm

well, I think with Ex-Calibar comment is enough, but If you still don't like it just do this. See the anime. It doesn't have any Ero scenes and it makes you cry... I mean it.
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And even though all ero-scenes don't make any sense if you think of Hakuoro as a mashine that grant wishes, then you would see that every one wanted to have sex with Hakuoro therefore he did them.

By Kamyu is something with her vampirism.
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Unread post by Kiraiya » March 5th, 2008, 2:23 am

The all famous Lolita Complex is a big should i say "problem" within japanese culture. It is also one of the most common fetishes in japan therefore I dont find it rare that most of the characters look loli. I myself am a follower of the Loli regime but its not like I condone child molestation or anything like that. That is one of the things about anime and manga. It allows you to do stuff that you would normally be able to do in real life. So dont go around antagonizing people that like lolis or anything because I can guarantee you that most VSNs, animes, or mangas in some way shape or form have a loli in there. Some people try to say that theyre older than they actually are or whatever but people are just in denial. Theyre underage and some people find that hot. I admit the ero scenes were pretty bad but thats y the good old people at Leaf added this handy feature in which u press the Ctrl button on your keyboard and you get to skip scenes you dont like. Pardon my sarcasm. But still if you have a problem with lolis i recommend you stop playing VSNs because your going to run into that popular theme very commonly. But thats just my opinion. You seem to have a problem with everything VSNs stand for: awesome stories and meh to horrible sex scenes.
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But other than those points I think X-Caliber touched on all the other points.
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Unread post by Ryuusoul » March 5th, 2008, 8:15 am

The Eruruw complaints make me laugh... everyone knows Eruruw wants to jump Hakuoro's bones. She... has no bones about it.

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Re: A bit... disgusting?

Unread post by Enerccio » March 5th, 2008, 9:21 pm

Faranth wrote:Why the had to ruin it so much? Couldn't they get someone who could have written some believable sex scenes? I guess I'll never understand Japan. :roll:
I will never understands you. It's eroge so there should be ero. And that ero was likable. Period.
I enjoyed them all and dammit I am so lazy to get aruruw otherwise I would get her too (and I don't like hard modes).

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Unread post by miszou » March 6th, 2008, 9:47 am

In Holland we recently had the awards for worst written sex-scenes in last years literature. I wonder if they have something like that for eroge, I think it would be funny to read some of the winners ^^;;

I agree that some of the sex scenes in eroge are badly written and interfere with the stories sometimes, but it is also part of the genre and therefor something that shouldn't be shunned when interested in the genre. Some games have 'all ages' versions, but they just don't sell that well xD Japanese like the ero :3 (looking at the huge production of porn in the US I guess they aren't the only ones, they are just a bit more open about it :P).

And the girls looking young, usually lolis act pretty mature or sexy (For example take Rin from Kodomo no Jikan) making them not really look like normal children. Anime's and stuff have the tendency to use children for adults story, not sure why, but Japanese kids really don't resemble that :P Apart from that do loli characters never really look like real children, so I don't think much people who like loli are interested in real children. But of course I don't have any statistics to back that up :3 And don't forget, in Japan a lot of adult women look pretty loli, and since cute there is about as important as sexy is here, loli is culturally more accepted there (I think). I guess there probably are some anthropological (Hope this is the right word xD) studies about it that might give some insight in this. I think it might be hard to judge the culture from our perspective. So I guess loli ero shouldn't be compared to CP.

and Faranth: regular eroge often look like that or worse. Some are nice, others are brutal. But VN's don't need to be eroge, so there are enough VN's without it (for example Clannad) ^^.
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Unread post by md » March 8th, 2008, 9:20 am

I had a 700 word mini-essay on danbooru at one that point that outlined the various women as relationships Hakuoro could've settled for, or they should've setup as arcs.

Arcs for the wimmin would've at least got rid of the harem-play that does make all the relationships fucking usesless. I love YOU eruruw... But I'm Karura's master... and Touka's sire, and and and...

Where's my Kuuya ending? :(

Setting up seperate arcs would've made the game pretty titanic to write and troubleshoot though, so I can see them limiting the budget.

Checkit: Karura's got the slave collar, Yuzuha has the bell, Eruruw has the ring.
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Touka's got the...? Kamyu is kamyu, Uruto is the real plain living woman, not Eruruw. Or whatever. Literature bullshit, that I took an oath to fight when I squeaked by english 110.

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Unread post by Raw » March 13th, 2008, 2:34 am

I promote the fact that none of the eroge was disturbing. Gladly, they were short, because i can't stand any more Tsukihime-long eroge scenes. Nasu is a VN God, but his way of narrating sex scenes is just, disturbing. On the contrary, Utawarerumono H-Scenes were short, nice, and happy. End of the Story.
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Unread post by randomanon? » April 3rd, 2008, 7:09 pm

woah woah woah, that first post is a real exaggeration.

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Unread post by animefanzmg » April 29th, 2008, 2:17 am

lol i think him getting raped is a running gag. great leader but also a perfect target for sexual abuse...
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Unread post by ayadew » April 30th, 2008, 9:45 am

They were very forced and meaningless.
Skipped through all of them.
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Unread post by zweiterversuch » September 15th, 2008, 4:51 pm

question:

why do people always think: Vampirism = sex ?

It is because of the blood?
the bite?
the need to rip apart the other person?
...
....
ohhh! I get it now.
Sex = vampirism....
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Unread post by lovemonster » December 1st, 2008, 12:05 pm

Faranth, I think you're incorrectly categorizing characters as loli. Eruruw is far from loli, and she's often seen standing next to a loli (Aruruw) so it shocks me that you think they are in the same category.

I take it you haven't seen how many East Asian (Chinese, Korean, Japanese) women look like. We usually have smaller breasts and are short, petite in comparison to other races. So those features are not a "Japanese taste" it's just a reality for East Asian people in general. No (or at least very, very few) East Asian women naturally have a body like Karura. It actually refreshes me to see a canon love interest in a game that looks somewhat Japanese for once. Eruruw is actually one of the few somewhat realistically proportioned young adult female characters I've seen in eroge.

On a random note, I always assumed that Eruruw didn't know that Hakuouro had some trysts with the other girls. She's described as being the jealous type, so I imagine there would have been many more scenes of her glaring at the main character than there were. :lol:

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