Let's Review the game! *Spoilers Infested Thread!*

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Let's Review the game! *Spoilers Infested Thread!*

Unread postby lolipedofin » February 15th, 2008, 5:14 am

Alright, i think that some people have finished the game by now.... So i made this thread if anybody want to review the game, bring up a point.. their impression on the game, or their disappointment... what could have been done to make it better, the plot hole, the ero-scene, and everything you wanna say you can practically do it here. No need for spoiler tags except if you want to shorten the post length for the sake of better viewing, but anything spoiler related should be ok. You can debate all u want just please no flame, make counter-claim or support one idea, yeah all that stuffs.

Enter only after you finished the game!
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Unread postby lolipedofin » February 15th, 2008, 5:37 am

Alright, i'm gonna start.

I've been wanting to say this ever since i saw Karura H-scene.... Why oh why??!! What's happen with all those ero-scenes. I remember there's discussion in Fate/Stay Night sub-forum, in the UBW translation thread, about ero-scene necessity in a VN, these game is living (well, not really living) proof of my opinion that ero-scene actually hurt the quality of the VN.

In the game, we get to bang 6 girls in one story line! It actually reminded me of Ecchi Bani wa kirai? of course it's not as bad, but for me, the ero-scenes actually hurt the story a lot.

1st thing: It made Hakuoro and Eruruw's romantic relationship less significant. He is practically a lustfull emperor just like what Kuuya described him. Ok, Karura he was partially induced by drugs and with Kamyu he was raped. But on Urtoriy he took advantage of the situation, on Touka and Yuzuha he is fully aware when he is doing it. Even with Eruruw, the depth of their feeling and the romantic interest between them wasn't fully explained yet, and to be truthful their ero-scene was more like a sexfriend than that of a lover.

Rather than making story of Hakuoro's closeness with all the girls, i think they should have spent more on describing Eruruw and Hakuoro's relationship. It's not like the ero-scene was any good in particular. The lead-up to the scene was plenty and emphasized but then the scene itself is done in a merely 30 seconds. If they want to make it as a service for fan, then please make it better. In all aspect, the scenes appear to me like simply wanting to tell us that Hakuro had sex with her, without any special meaning or whatever, after the 4th ero-scene, i actually wonder whether Hakuoro suffers from Premature ejaculation or not... And to add it up, where is Aruruw, Sakuya and Kuuya's ero-scene??


Well, i'm not trying to be a hypocrite, i'm a guy, of course i like ero/porn stuff. It's just in this game, the ero-scene placement and number actually hurt the story that is really good, which a part of me who loves VN's great stories hate. But then, despite the heavy number of ero-scenes, it was done and written poorly that even the part of me who loves ero/porn also hates.

Anybody care to give their opinion on this matter?
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Unread postby drizzt_rocks » February 15th, 2008, 6:42 am

Haha I havent finished the full game yet so I cant fully review it but from the 4 h-scenes I have seen I can say that they are pretty random and were just put in for fan service. I can see how it detracts from the game but as they say an eroge is an eroge. Plus I kinda prefer having one route rather than 6 - 7 routes going through similar stuff again and again like in tsukihime. I know you dont really feel close to one char but thats because Hakuoro is a real pimp :P Also I agree with the whole 30 seconds thing, if you are putting h-scenes in you should make them atleast a little longer. I dont wanna go into as much detail as nasu does but a little more detail would be appreciated (sad as that may sound :P). But yeah I see your point they should have just had Karura or Touka as the main girl and made a story rather than turning Hakuoro into a pimp :P

Other than the h-scenes this game is awesome although I wish there werent many srpg parts since I hate srpgs. And playing in easy mode doesnt help much since it all becomes such a drag just killing them so easily >_>
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Unread postby lolipedofin » February 15th, 2008, 8:51 am

Yeah... I also kinda hated an eroge where there is plenty of girls but the story is hardly any different... I haven't played the whole tsukihime, but i think it is kinda like that by playing part of Ciel's route.

I gotta hand it to F/SN, no wonder it's such a legendary VN (that's just so cheesy), They got marvelous 3 heroines on a 3 completely different storyline and such a long gameplay too.... I'm not saying Utawarerumono is a bad game, mind you? It is a GREAT game. but to me it still fell behind Fate/Stay Night. Well, Utawarerumono win hands down though, on the comic part, i laugh a lot while playing this game.

But back to topic, believe it or not, The ero-scenes in this game is the one thing that put me off the most, it made me hard to view the hero as someone good, and made it hard for me to relate to each character, particularly the hero.
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Unread postby Mukuro » February 15th, 2008, 11:14 am

Well, actually I think one of the points in this game is that no one is truly good. As you can see Hakuoro himself stated when he first fought Benawi that if there is hell, he certainly will go there. It shows that Hakuoro himself doesn't believe that what he is doing is good, he is just trying to survive with (well for the lack of better words) his family and anyone trying to harm him/his family is going down. It is also shown in the final battle when Hakuoro acknowledge that what he is doing is basically the same as what Diy does and decided that they both should just dissapear.

So yeah, he is not really good but not bad either. Just a person trying to protect what's precious to him.
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Unread postby Somnium » February 15th, 2008, 2:02 pm

I have to agree with you. I felt like the ero was the games largest flaw. It was fairly unnecessary for him to sleep with all of them, and everyone seemed to forget about it the morning after. The feel between characters didn't seem to change afterwards. Karura seemed a little more daring, but she gave the impression that she was always like that you just hadn't seen it. He was a bit tense around Kamyu for awhile, but that was because he wasn't sure if it actually happened. Also Touka seemed to give up her mission to have his child silently after 1 attempt.

Personally I feel like the ero content ruins the feel of most VNs, not just Utawarerumono. They always seem to throw off the mood of the game, and most are done in a way where I can't seem to take them seriously.

I would have liked additional story routes, for no other reason than to spend more time on each character in Hakuoro's entourage.


I apologize for this post in advance. It's early and cold.
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Unread postby idontknoW » February 15th, 2008, 2:37 pm

story: great. ain't as epic as other titles but still, it's greatly done
combat: simple but effective, now if you can only have some sort of custom mode or something
hscenes: meh. pointless. i hated the hscenes cause they were sudden at a time (playing the game while at a lobby in college = BAD IDEA)
overall: great. just great. wont stay long though.

pros: finally! a vn with some strategy.; good storyline.
cons: to be honest, hscenes were a con at times; linear... but it aint a drag because of this.
other note: Normal, Hard Mode 1, Hard Mode 2, Ha- wait. what are the differences? oh nevermind. just figured it out. -_-
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Unread postby lolipedofin » February 15th, 2008, 4:20 pm

I think it is safe to assume that everybody agree that the ero-scenes in this game sucked big time!! It appears like the ero-scenes is there just to satiate any horny nijikon otaku without any real purpose.

I always make a point that to me, ero-scenes will (almost) always hurt the story and quality of a VN (although i like them), even in F/SN, i don't know why everybody always rise their eyebrows on Nasu's H-narration, i find it quite good and... original. Even in F/SN i think at least in Fate route, the game will probably do better w/out the ero-scene, especially in the forest, the cheesy mana transfer... i prefer the anime and realta nua version of transfer. Nevertheless those ero-scenes are much better then the one at Uta.


Now let's stop assaulting this game (for a while 8) ) and try to focus on it's good point.

One of the thing i love the most in this game is it's comical scenes... There's a lot of 'em, and they're all pretty much hilarious! I was laughin my ass when i played this game, it was midnight and i even got some complaints from neighbors.... This game is actually refreshing, light and it's fun and very playful... After playing Type-Moon games, i forgot that there's VN that actually lighten your heart instead of depressing it... 8) lol just kiddin :lol:

One of the other thing is I love all the characters! Although most of the ero-scenes manage to throw em off, but if we take each ero-scenes as playful banter from the developer and brand them as non-canon, i could easily love all the girl chara in the game... they are all unique in their own way, we can relate to them, their art design is cute, and the list will go on...

Me in particular, i love Eruruw, Aruruw, Touka and Kuuya... well, Yuzuha and Sakuya too...


What do you guys think? anything else you wanna raise your thumb at?? vor maybe you had the same idea with me?
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Unread postby GrimAngel » February 15th, 2008, 5:04 pm

HAHAH I must admit, the H-ecene were not good at all. But Lolipedofin, what about Yuzuha?? come on it was here dream T-T.... even his brother came and beg you to do it with her.... in that condition... she wanted to leave a trace that she was alive... to not be forget..., would you be able to resist??? Sincerly I would not be able to. And Touka well that ecene was more hilarious that anything else xD.

So yeah the hentai ecenes were crap but o well. I really dont care about that.

As you said this was was hilarious, laughin at night, and all the neighbors complaying xD It was the same for me, I was so light, so enjoyable, and I must admit, I share same tears and the end... T-T(when He said farewell to all.... T-T) and Yuzuha man so fucking adorable.
Well all the characters were really lovable, and when I found out what Karura did to that Ouro, she took away his ***** xD that make me admire Karura even more xD.

In my case it was like this,
-Aruru
-Karura
-Touka(men the dool stuff xD poor Oboro)
-Yuzuha
-Kamyu
-Eruru
-Kuuya
-lastly Urto and Sakuya(when she came covered in Mud xDJAJAJA)
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Unread postby drizzt_rocks » February 15th, 2008, 10:26 pm

Haha Lolipedofin I wouldnt go so far as to say they detract from the game.They were crap but I always take the h-scenes as not being part of the story and just good fanservice so I dont really let a good or bad h-scene ruin a game for me. Plus Toukas h-scene makes up for everything :P
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Unread postby Cent » February 15th, 2008, 10:48 pm

I was wondering how they were gonna put in the H scenes for all the different characters, cause they didn't fit anywhere in the anime, and i knew the game had no separated routes. Although they didn't fit very well after all, I still would have been disappointed if I didn't get the H segments with Touka and Karura, no matter how forced they were :(.
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Unread postby Somnium » February 16th, 2008, 12:06 am

Personally my favorite part of the game was the day to day character interaction during times of peace. The game never failed to deliver a warm and upbeat atmosphere. Not many VNs do that, and Utawarerumono manages to keep it up the entire game.

Going into the game I wasn't expecting much out of the combat system, however I was really impressed with it. It's amazingly simple but that's one of it's strong points. Instead of dozens of various spells and attacks it keeps it basic. It rewards a good strategy and a solid formation more than stacking your characters.
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Unread postby lolipedofin » February 16th, 2008, 2:40 am

Yuzuha's ero-scene?? Yes, maybe i can't resist, but still, i have to... When you already have someone you love (Eruruw), I expect them to stay true to it. I mean, you can give Yuzuha's some "you don't need proof blah-blah-blah", "You'll always be in my heart blah-blah-blah" NOT "Ok, let's fuck and have a baby". I'm not trying to degenerate Yuzuha's sincereness here, but it just doesn't seem ok to me, and even Yuzuha's scene is quite forceful and typical of, sorry to say, cheap eroge.. it only doesn't seem forceful because the others was even more forceful and out of place...

What made me flabbergasted the most is, even after the scene with Eruruw, they relationship continue as if nothing happened, and Hakuoro is still clueless on why Eruruw is pouting when he is close to another girl. Really, to me, the fact that their relationship wasn't solidified was purely so Hakuoro can play around with all the girls, just like Kuuya said, "The lustful emperor". But then, they still have to put Eruruw as priority because she is the true heroine, that's why the developer put her in the top hit list and become the first girl Hakuoro took to the room. yare-yare...

seriously, if they are so convinced that they have to provide services to the fan, why don't make this one in a more serious tone without Hakuoro running rampage, and then make a spin-off of the game titled "Ecchiwarumono" subtitled "The Legend Whose P***s run loose"
LOL.

Still one unanswered questions about all the eroscenes here, where does Aruruw, Kuuya and Sakuya's scenes went to?? (my true nature revealed)

@Somnium: That's what i've been saying, the day to dat comical and funny scene, it was all lovely and funny
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Unread postby GrimAngel » February 16th, 2008, 4:52 am

Somnium wrote:The game never failed to deliver a warm and upbeat atmosphere. Not many VNs do that, and Utawarerumono manages to keep it up the entire game.


I coudnt agree more with this.... T-T

lolipedofin wrote:"you don't need proof blah-blah-blah", "You'll always be in my heart blah-blah-blah" NOT "Ok, let's fuck and have a baby"


Hahahaha yeah I must admit I agree with that, at first that was what I think was going to happend... but well It made me quite happy that her "dream" of leaving a trace behind with the one she loved became true.

About Eruruw, yeah quite a shame, but from what I think He didnt realize it until the end, becouse He allways believe she was by his side becouse of that stupid contract.
But before he had notion about the contract.... mmm honestly I yeahh It was just for fan-service or as you said becouse he is a lustfull emperor xD.

And no I dont have an answer for where did Aruru,Kuuya and Sukuya`s h-ecenes end up.But I can leave my opinion
Aruruw Hentai ecena?? mm honestly I quite dislike that.... couse Aruru you became to see her as a daughter, or more like a character you have to protect, spoil, ect,ect.(when I saw the ecene where she "died"...... mannn I really wanted to kill that fu**** bastard... I even cried xD)
But Sakuya and Kuuya..... I really wanted to see that, more than Sakuya, I would really like to see a Kuuya ecene xD.
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Unread postby Ciel » February 16th, 2008, 9:39 am

Still one unanswered questions about all the eroscenes here, where does Aruruw, Kuuya and Sakuya's scenes went to?? (my true nature revealed)

Mutsumi too, as her real self. :o
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Unread postby Drakron » February 16th, 2008, 8:06 pm

Eruruw is complicated, she is Mikoto but Hakuoro only realized that at the very end.

Also Eruruw never directly tells him she loves him until the end, that was due to the contract and even if that did make Hakuoro having the idea Eruruw loved him because of the contract he only realized the truth about the contract existence later in the game ...

Now as for the others ... Mutsumi was Kamyu, all of Kamyu sex scenes are in fact with Mutsumi, that despite calling him "father", seem to have other type of feelings for him since she says "you have chosen the other girl" that is a reference to Iceman escaping (meaning he chosen Mikoto over her).

Karura loved Hakouro, also the complain about nothing happening the day after is not true when applied to her, there are many references after that scene but she almost always ends up giving the impression she is just teasing.

Touka have her duty that means she have to have his baby ... she was sort off tricked by Karura into it (down to how to get pregnant), she had to do it anyway.

Yuzuha loved Hakuoro, she wanted to leave something behind ... it was the only thing Hakuoro could do for her and it might not be "nice" but both knew what they were doing.

As for Urto ... its not easy to read Urto feelings but Hakouro did not "taken advantage" of her, what he did was make her just a women for a little time since she needed that at that time, it not like he did it after she had to given up the baby.

As for the "day after" complain ... its true about the entire game since there are events that are simply not shown, like when Hakuoro proposes the irrigation system. the complain about what happens after they have sex ... well Karura still teases him (and likely does more, remember the sake drinking scene?), Urto knew that was pretty much a one night deal as Yuzuha wanted his baby and ... well only Touka is the one without a real follow up (since they ended it with comedy) but we can safely assume that Touka was unlikely to brought that issue up for a long time.

Also I think the issue people have is this is not a dating sim, Hakuoro is not looking to "pick" one of then to pursue a relationship since he already have a relationship and yes, most of the sex scenes could be get rid without altering much of the game storyline (exception being Karura) but being there does not "cheapen" the game.
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Unread postby lolipedofin » February 17th, 2008, 5:06 am

GrimAngel wrote:couse Aruru you became to see her as a daughter, or more like a character you have to protect, spoil, ect,ect.

Well, no reason had stopped Hakuoro from getting his way around women before... :lol:

Drakron wrote:Eruruw is complicated, she is Mikoto but Hakuoro only realized that at the very end.

Also Eruruw never directly tells him she loves him until the end, that was due to the contract and even if that did make Hakuoro having the idea Eruruw loved him because of the contract he only realized the truth about the contract existence later in the game ...

Eetoo... anybody can see it as clear as a day that Eruruw do love Hakuoro, And if not for the purpose of screwing all the girls in the game, this relationship is definitely what will be pursued on the story. And the fact that the feeling between them had to be conveyed and solidified right before the end made the night they had together before looks like a just for fun sex in a one night stand kind of thing... and i hate it!

I won't argue much about Karura, She got hundreds of other way to convince Hakuoro, but she chose to use her body. Fair(?) play to her... In a sense she is the one raping him anyway...

Touka, Name one... name one existing or at least existed tribe, that send woman out of village on adulthood to serve someone as a female warrior with a dual duty to also force her way toward her master bed on purpose of having a baby. From what the story implies i even got the feeling that somehow Evenkurga also value blood purity of the clan (evenkurga to marry an evenkurga) which kinda confront the idea of having a kid from her master.

Urtoriy, Well, that is what we would call taking advantage. The woman was crying, she just lost her baby, she cannot think straight, she does have some interest to the male counterpart but hold back because she knows that it is one way traffic, the male doesn't really love her that way but well, he is male, then they have sex. Which part of it would you not call taking advantage?

I won't talk about this from the girl's point of view, let's objectively view this from a male point of view. You can't have sex with 6 girls in a short interval, and then claim you love them all, that is what we would call lust. male's sex drive is basically animal instinct but bound and restricted by moral, reason and love... Take them all away and we would be humping any girl that emits pheromones on the street... :lol:


I love the game, once again, i love the game... i won't go as far as saying this is a cheap eroge, but i must admit that the ero-scenes cheapen the game in some way, decrease it's value as a very great game with epic saga and lovely story.
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Unread postby Ciel » February 17th, 2008, 5:25 am

Now as for the others ... Mutsumi was Kamyu, all of Kamyu sex scenes are in fact with Mutsumi, that despite calling him "father", seem to have other type of feelings for him since she says "you have chosen the other girl" that is a reference to Iceman escaping (meaning he chosen Mikoto over her).

Yeah, I meant I wanted some scene with her using her real looks. I know they were both one. :P
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Unread postby Drakron » February 17th, 2008, 6:10 pm

lolipedofin wrote:Touka, Name one... name one existing or at least existed tribe, that send woman out of village on adulthood to serve someone as a female warrior with a dual duty to also force her way toward her master bed on purpose of having a baby. From what the story implies i even got the feeling that somehow Evenkurga also value blood purity of the clan (evenkurga to marry an evenkurga) which kinda confront the idea of having a kid from her master.


I am sorry but the game states otherwise ... Genjimaru himself that is a legend among the Evenkuruga is Hien and Sakuya's grandfather that happen to be Kunnekamun.

Also you cannot deny that Karura tells Touka what her duty is supposed to be, she makes it CLEAR that Touka is EXPECTED to bear the child of her lord, she also explains the reasoning as being such duty is to boost the Evenkurga since no Evenkuruga would never serve a unfit lord, since the child will ALWAYS be of the mother race that is not a issue since it will be a Evenkuruga.

Also it says its rare for Evenkuruga mononofu females to venture out due to the fact they are expected more that of males.

Another thing, the events are spaced for a significant length of time ... just because the game does not have seasons does not change the fact there are wars that space when the intervals of sex scenes, you make it sound he was bed hopping as that is not true.

And that holds for Urtoriy, that scene is after she returns the baby but if its one week or one month ... does not say but its clear for most part she pulled herself up and you cannot deny her own words after that scene.


Ciel wrote:Yeah, I meant I wanted some scene with her using her real looks. I know they were both one. :P


Well according to that scientist she was "disassembled" and only thing left was her ... brain.
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Unread postby lolipedofin » February 18th, 2008, 3:55 am

I am sorry but the game states otherwise ... Genjimaru himself that is a legend among the Evenkuruga is Hien and Sakuya's grandfather that happen to be Kunnekamun.


Which leads to Hien's frustration and feel of inferiority... From the way Hien talk about it, i found that the thing he despises the most is his inferiority toward his grampa and the fact that he is not an evenkurga. Which make me assume that Evenkurga value the purity of the blood... then again, it was just an assumption that i made.

The thing is, they gave the reason of wanting to have a baby twice in this game, Touka and Yuzuha, and i bet that if only it haven't been used twice, Urto will ask Hakuoro to impregnate her and give her a new baby as replacement (or whatever you want to call) it for Fumiruir. Lol, ok that's just a joke, but man... any reason is enough for sex in this game. Well, if you think about how the old (maybe even now) Japan use to value sex, it may be normal. But again, it just kill the mood and the image of any serious romantic relationship.

It's not like i have never experience love before, ok, this my own story just for reference, I once in a relationship with a girl, she's my junior in high-school, she's my junior in one of my school club (like bukkatsu [is that the name?] in japan, Indonesian's education system is similar to that of japan). Back then when we were still dating, with what we had back then, i can't imagine myself hitting another girl. I'm not the best guy around, mind you? I'm used to drive my friend around when he is looking for some hooker, damn him! once he even made me pay the money, although please trust me, I have never involved, Never engage in any prostitution, I just happen to have a very "excited" (as Yuzuha said) friend. But yeah... i'm the kind who likes to flirt with girls, but back then, when i'm still with my ex, the thought of fooling around, even to consider another girl as pretty or attractive never crossed my mind. That's why when i played this game, i dislike the idea of Hakuoro and Eruruw relationship being deep and serious but still having him humping around. From what they share in the game, i don't even think their relationship is that deep to have Eruruw broke down and cried.
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