abscess wrote:I don't see much problem in overcomplicating stuff, as long as we don't mention them in-game ) Take Tsukihime for example, there are tons of info about Akasha and the lines of death and the connection with this and that other stuff and circuits and what-not; but the main important story, that of Shiki and the heroines, doesn't delve into those things unless necessary. While I'm interested in actually delving more into this narrated universe, I find it useless to show everything there is about it, just what is needed to understand, the rest could hinted at or completely ignored. I'm just explaining my point.
I wonder that myself too. So far I've thought about it like the virus is the first thing to show up, with people dying for unknown reasons and show erratic behavior. After explaining more about the virus we get to know about "Beta", after getting to know more about the guy/girl/bipedal thing(?), more info about "Alpha" and the "anon-series" appears. "Omega" would also make its appearance because of "Beta" and "Alpha's" relation, along with the "anon-series" and the "group of people".
What I mean about background story is, for example, the economical and political situation the world is going through at the time the story takes place, what kind of technology is considered common everyday things and what is still not achievable with it, how much society has changed compared to ours, past events that lead up to the present state of affairs of the characters and organizations etc., etc.
I'm skeptical in throwing all those skills into one single persons. How much of a genius a person has to be to be able to plan such intricate strategies and pulling them off stealthily and effectively? I'm tired of the almighty teen/young adult that somehow is able to do all that stuff and more without any real or believable explanation or hint as to why the hell that happens, not to mention that it would be easier to explain the disappearance of "Alpha" due to disagreement inside the group, thus it disbanded.
I agree the impact of "Alpha" being a single entity would be big, but, as I've said, there are numerous characters that are unbelievably good at what they do and the great explanation for it is "OMG THEY BE GENIUSUHS" (L and Light from Death Note). Yeah, everything is quite outside of real logic, with having a conscious virus (is this idea still going or dropped?) and the internet being somewhat of a living thing, but I'd like to try to keep things from depending too much on the suspension of disbelief. But, seeing things from another perspective, writing a single character as "Alpha" could be considerably easier than having one or two of the group appear and make an excuse to why the rest isn't there and who knows what else.
I think we'll have to discuss about this some more.
Hmm.... I dunno about it. Generally when people think about scientist, they get to thinking about natural scientists (physics, biology, chemistry, etc). Knowing about it, putting the label of cult followers to scientists is quite hard, since very few I know follow a dogmatic belief (like the net-baby cult) or have pipe-dreams of dominating something (the famous world domination oh so present in cartoons and such by evil scientists... ugh). That kind of thought process could be more akin to other people, I think, like politicians or CEOs of some enterprises or something like that. It's just that I think that "scientists" isn't right. What if we first discuss what this "group of people" really is? Because, even though temporary, I just don't feel comfortable naming them "scientists" so lightly...
Glad we agreed on something. I have a few ideas about how the "anon series", operate, but not much. Just that I didn't think of them of being some kind of trained special forces, more like individuals trying to do what they think is right (due to their programming), but the coordinated manhunt idea sounds cool. We should talk more about this..... how many times have I said that in this post already?
Right. The returning part would have to be discussed, because I didn't think about them of being conscious that they are hunting "Beta" or that they know that they are part of the anon-series.... but on another thought, the way I have it, could pose some serious troubles. Well, you call the shots here and I'll see what happens )
I like the initial spread of info that then stops, that would hint that "Alpha" was still thinking things through about what it was doing and, eventually, changed its mind and hid at least part of the data.
As for "Omega" being conscious from the get-go, so far I picture it like "Alpha".... well, impregnating the internet with whatever it was that did the job, then it started to develop and grow, after some time, "Omega" started feeling its surroundings, toying with packs of data, learning stuff, feeding on... info? electricity? I dunno, something. Anyway, it started toying with the internet and, eventually, it merged with the net, thus more and more parts of the internet start behaving oddly... or something like that
abscess wrote:z2000 wrote:From the second group, there are people who take it much too far. I guess this could be the 'fanatics' of Alpha would fall in.
I'm not sure I get what you try to say here. Before I try to jump to a conclusion, could you elaborate this a bit?
abscess wrote:since I pretty much lost interest in it after ep 19 and haven't picked it up again for some years.
abscess wrote:As for "Alpha's" age. I was toying with ages ranging from late 20's to early 40's when it was active.
abscess wrote:Note: I'm not sure if I want to keep the conscious virus idea anymore... If there is no conscious virus, then there doesn't have to be a network. There are reasons for me not wanting a network of that kind:
a) We lose similarities.
b) The most important, it doesn't make much sense if there was a conscious "virus", why would "Beta" want a conscious virus roaming around? It could start acting on its own. Why would "Beta" take that risk? what would there be to gain? It makes little sense after thinking about it.
Superflonic wants "Alpha" to be the one that created "Omega", I'm thinking about it. ANON didn't create the brain network baby.
I want "Alpha" to be more than one person, I dunno if Superflonic agrees. I don't know about your ANON.
"Beta" is some sort of a digital copy of "Alpha", it was given the patterns, information known about it and some mission to follow (we don't know what mission it is... yet). Eventually it started acting on its own and disobeyed the "group of people", the ones who created it.
The "anon series" are there to stop "Beta" and continue where it left off.
Superflonic wrote:Okay, so the background is the state the world is in right now, and how the world changes when the main story takes place. When taken in consideration z2000's post, about the two 'groups' of people, the entrepreneurs (the people that want to change the world, in a good way) try to achieve the (currently) unachievable, just like scientists in the present. This could fit within Alpha's character, starting out as an ordinary (incredibly smart) scientist (or as a group of highly intelligent scientists), but eventually for some reason quit his normal work as a scientist.
Then, he starts to act as an underground computer hacker. He gathers information, possibly politically oriented? Maybe he knows something the government tries to cover up, but thinks that ordinary people wouldn't understand when he comes out right away. He leaks information, spreads it across the net, trying to get people to start puzzling, and jump to their own conclusions. It would be too risky for him to openly 'unmask' the government.
Superflonic wrote:(Oh, and I say 'he', but the 'group-of-scientists' Alpha would work just the same.)
Superflonic wrote:Haha, I completely agree now. I have watched Death Note, what, three times? I liked it, but it was unbelievably unreal. So yeah, a group would be better. But not too big, of course. They should be able to do whatever they are doing without attracting too much attention from the 'opponents'.
Superflonic wrote:However, it wouldnâ€™t make as much of a difference, since Beta is a single entity. He may be based on the information collected of Alpha, which are multiple people, but the body Beta is in can do just as much processing as Alpha could with multiple people.
About the virus; I don't know. The original idea of a virus holding the world hostage shouldn't be used, since it would make no sense. I think that if we were to use this, people would think of it as some lame plot device just to get some more action in the story. We have plenty of material to work with though, so action won't be a problem.
Superflonic wrote:However, if the scientists do this for a better, realistic future, calling them scientists isn't that odd. I (we) haven't decided yet on Alpha being a bad guy or a good guy. If he was a good guy, we could get him to try to change the world oppressed by the government, for example. (Iâ€™m kind of thinking of a pretty peaceful world, but one that is also kept from important information, like future governmental plans (sadly). It does sound a bit bland though, but we could pull it off).
Superflonic wrote:Well, I guess we agree on the fact that the anon series are dispatched to take out/bring back Beta, who is on the loose. Why he is on the loose, and how he escaped from the facility the â€˜group of peopleâ€™ put him in, I donâ€™t know. All I know is that he starts disobeying them, and flees.
Superflonic wrote:Well, you said that the â€˜anon seriesâ€™ could be in more than one kind of flavor. Like robots with the appearences of teenagers, elderly people, parents, who knows. The reason for this is because the â€˜group of peopleâ€™(NAME BLAARGH) still know nothing about who he, Alpha, really was. What gender he had, his age, even his hobbies, besides the obvious cracking. They donâ€™t know, so they designed multiple anons, so at least one of them would think like Alpha.
Superflonic wrote:abscess wrote:z2000 wrote:From the second group, there are people who take it much too far. I guess this could be the 'fanatics' of Alpha would fall in.
I'm not sure I get what you try to say here. Before I try to jump to a conclusion, could you elaborate this a bit?
Would sure be helpful.
abscess wrote:since I pretty much lost interest in it after [Death Note's] ep 19 and haven't picked it up again for some years.Superflonic wrote:DUN DUN DUN DUNNNNNN
Oh well, you are right. Please read the first part of my post )
Superflonic wrote:Well, that's true. However, maybe we shouldn't make the virus a conscious being. We could make it something like CI (if zwei agrees), an instrument used to gather even more information. That would fit into the personality of Beta (since he is basically a crippled version of Alpha, not knowing everything. Now that I think of it, it has similarities to Chobits. In that series, there is this whizkid (forgot his name), who recreated his sister as a robot, based on all of her former information).
Superflonic wrote:So the virus is not exactly a virus anymore, but an instrument to gather information. However, this goes wrong at some point, and the 'virus' starts killing people. (They get sick from the infection, as a nasty side-effect? Maybe that is when Beta realizes that his 'life' is in danger, because when the GoP realize what he has done, even they will have to shut him down. Thus, he flees.)
Superflonic wrote:Yes. As a tool to collect information more easily. As I stated right above, Beta is a 'crippled' version of Alpha, and maybe his 'virus' is a crippled version of Omega? Both act as a tool to gather information (about various subjects), but the Virus is way more intrusive, and wouldn't necessarily be something Alpha would've created.
Superflonic wrote:Also, I think you have Omega all wrong, abscess. Omega was the living internet, and the "net baby" is. well.. The "net baby".
abscess wrote:Here it is, it's tuesday in the very early morning. My long delayed next wall of text is here. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to sleep, it's around 3AM and have class in 5 hours, with luck I'll sleep 3 hours or so....
Well yeah, Alpha could fit more or less in the group of those who want to help society by how it's defined right now. As for the spreading information in counted drops, I don't agree with it. While saying "hey, the government wants to force us all to wear pink panties as a form of mental control" is quite a hard thing to believe even if it is true, I think that, at first, Alpha would spread the information as raw as it can get to get people to actually see the shit that is actually happening. Whether people are actually prepared to understand the information and do something about it, it would be up to them.
Have you heard about people that believe that, one of the main reasons why incredibly inept and corrupt governments are allowed to perpetuate themselves, is because of the lack of real commitment people from that country show towards enforcing their duty of demanding results to the government? I want Alpha to be like them. A phylosophy a little like this: "if people, after having all this information, still ignore it; it's their fault they are still screwed."
I think you said this before (?), but I still find it odd
I was thinking about a group of 5 persons, more or less. There is a chance for a group of 5 people to be very close to act as a unit and still have discrepancies in some things, I guess.
Beta, being a machine, would more likely think faster than a lot of people put together. If we consider that it may have more than one processor and exchange information between them, it could emulate almost any number of people interacting with each other much faster than its human counterparts (think Melty Blood's Sion with her multi-processing thingy but on crack ) ). But this is me digressing! Going back on topic, I've been thinking that one of the reasons why Beta may have gone out of control is because it tried to emulate a number of people being only one machine, finding contradictions on some of Alpha's actions, it started to develop away from what it was originally intended to do. Whether it develops into something with a logical plan or is merely a short-circuited uber-computer doing stuff that it thinks is logical but it isn't in reality, I dunno yet; maybe it can be an open interpretation to the reader?
As for action, yeah I agree. You can pack only a number of explosions and not make the spectators go ".... yeah, right..." in disbelief, but I still think it's a little too early to kill that idea. Probably it wouldn't be used as it is, but after getting some work on it, who knows?
Scientists, more usual than not, are merely tools in grander schemes by others. Alpha could be a group of scientists that grew tired about the current situation and decided to take matters in its own hands and try to fix it as it thought was right, while the GoP could be the same group that was using Alpha before for who knows what reason.
As for the oppressing government idea that does a fine job of covering things up, I like the idea, even though it has been used so many times. I think it still applies to the current situation we are currently living (well, not in my country exactly, but that's another story). IIRC, something like that is one of the themes behind books like Brave New World (Aldous Huxley), Fahrenheit 451 (Ray Bradbury) and 1984 (George Orwell, haven't read this one yet); those are good books, if you haven't read them yet, I suggest you give them a try.
Yeah, the Alpha-Series (... I liked the other name better but....) would come in "more than one flavor," but never wanted them to be robots (much less loli robots >_<). As for one of them thinking like Alpha (or one of the Alpha group), yeah, I also said that. I'll suppose you already check the other post. So far I think that the Alpha-Series could be separated in three sub groups, the ones that search for Beta (in the net and in person, maybe), the ones that phisically hunt Beta and the ones that investigate what's going on with the net (maybe with some interconnection between the ones that investigate the net and the ones that search for Beta).
And yes.... "BLAARGH" at the name "group of people." That's why I changed it to GoP, shorter and sounds a little less stupid.
If we use zwei's CI idea, then there would be a network, and I'm not comfortable with that idea right now. You are right, though, it could be useful, since we still don't have a reason for the virus to exist, just that we want to kill people. We still would need an excuse for it to kill people, though. Thinking about it, for someone who tries to stay low, killing people is doing the exact opposite. But I like the idea of people dropping dead at random, so I don't want to drop that part!
As for Chobits, I didn't watch it entirely. Watched it until ep. 5 or so, when the guy had to... "reset" her for some reason I can't remember. I can't even remember why I didn't finish it....
That would seem that Beta screwed up somewhere and was afraid of the repercussions it would carry. I have the idea that what Beta wanted was to kill people, but I still don't have an excuse or reason for it; we should discuss this part. As for the side-effects of getting inffected, besides being doomed, dunno.
Saing Beta is a crippled version of Alpa is not exactly the way I'd word things, but it's a way of saying it, I guess. But, saying the virus is a cirppled version of Omega, I'm not convinced in that one. The virus, although it is Beta's creation, serves a different purpose than Omega. I'm starting to wonder if we understand Omega to be the same thing or we have different ideas of what it is.
Yeah, Beta was created to shed more light on Alpha, and, in a way, study Omega. It is not known what Omega is or about its existence, but it's thought that there is something in the internet that makes it act strange. Think about when you are in a dark park and there's a sound coming from the shrubbery, it could be a toad, a cat or a rapist that is stalking you , you know That there's something there because of the sound, but you don't know what is it, the same applies to the GoP and Omega when they created Beta; Beta is the stick with which you poke the shrubbery to make sure it's not a rapist that wants to tap you.
About the part that Beta flees and the Alpha-Series are created to chase it, yes, that's what I wanted to say.
[/quote]Not quite. I always thought about Omega as the net-baby. Then, I don't know what is it that you understand Omega to be. This is another topic of discussion.
Noooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!This cannot be!!!abscess wrote:Well, I've waited for an answer for some time, since you left some stuff unanswered in your last post. So, is it safe to say that this project died before it even began?
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