Kara no Kyokai movie

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Unread postby Kansho » May 24th, 2008, 4:46 pm

In the novel, Overlooking View was also exactly that way. Kara no Kyoukai begins to getting interesting during the next chapters. The first chapter is one of the worst (if isn't "the") of the whole series. The original chapter itself lacks all that things, and the chapters aren't time-linear, so that didn't help to this one. Even so, that's not a problem (see at Haruhi anime... :roll:)

Kinoko probably concived it first time as a experiment, a pilot chapter, he probably even wasn't thinking in a full series when he wroted it and released it in the net. I think that ufotable even made this chapter better than in the novel, and Kinoko also thinks it aswell. Generaly the underlying theme of the book is very deep. Kinoko once said in an interview that games have an advantage over novels because it can use pictures and music on top of text. For a novel to be just as interesting, it needs to be three times as interesting. Speaking as a whole, he did it in Rakkyo. That's why the book had very good critics.

Even so, I think that they made a very good adaptation. I loved it. As an adaptation, is far better than the awful Tsukihime and the mediocre Fate. It even had the same atmosphere of the novels, and this one didn't lacks the expressive power of the original like the other two. Probably, chapters like /3 or /5 will be awesome.
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.
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Unread postby abscess » May 24th, 2008, 11:06 pm

@Miraploy
Miraploy wrote:We have no character development on the villain. She's a complete unknown entity until we see her toward the end, talking with Touko.

I agree with you. I could't feel any real attachment to that character until Tohko appeared. There should have been a bit more development on the "villain", at least some more hints as to who she was and how she was feeling before Tohko showed up with the plot-dump.

Miraploy wrote:The characters are all so sullen and quiet, there's not one shred of personality.

I disagree oh so very much. Have you heard the saying "Actions speak louder than words"? It applies magnificently here. You know that Mikiya cares a lot about Shiki and apparently they both have a thing for each other, as far as I understood we don't know if they are aware that both of them have feelings for the other one. We didn't get too much info out of Tohko but enough to understand that she is crafty with dolls and such and has some sort of superior knowledge about the supernatural

Miraploy wrote:In 50 minutes they managed to give a completely non-sensical philosophical lesson on floating and flying [...]

It was all too clear for me when they talked about those "nonsensical stuff" about floating and flying. If you didn't understand it I suggest you watch it again.

Miraploy wrote: [...] As a result, there is no desire from anyone other than already fans like us to watch more.

No, you are very wrong. Someone I know, who is in no way a fan of anything related to Type-Moon (liked melty but that's it), watched it before me and told me that it was quite a good pilot to the series and asked me when the other chapter was out. He is very critical in almost every aspect of any story and for him to be interested in Kara no Kyoukai is a very strange thing to happen.

Miraploy wrote: [...] Shiki kicking ass was a good watch, though it's far from glorious. Scenes from any decent anime match it, including the fight between Roa and Shiki in the Tsukihime anime [...]

Yes, it had very beautiful animation but the fight wasn't much of a fight-scene as it was more like a one-sided massacre if you ask me. That, in my book, takes a bit of points out.
Comparing the "fight-scene" in Kara no Kyoukai with Shiki vs. Roa in Tsukihime's fanime is not a good thing. Getting the plot aside and taking only into account animation and variety of movements I feel I must disagree with you. While in Kara no Kyoukai we get people jumpling from building roof to building roof with a very cool score, R-Shiki doing flips and stabbing ghosts with a very freudian knife with a superb animation (which was very entertaining) in Shingetsutan we get a whiney T-Shiki standing most of the time in a hallway babbling Arcueid's name over and over and Roa saying how badass he is. When the fight starts we get a cool score too and see some blow exchanges (about 3 or 4) from Shiki and Roa and then get to see Akiha and the moon, Roa knocks Shiki down (6 to 7 blows) and some more babbling ensues that which is followed by a black-key from Ciel coming from Roa's back that gets deflected (one blow) by Roa, Shiki pulls himself up and kills the hallway (let's say it's another blow), Roa freaks out and both fall, when Roa gets up Shiki is at his back, a bit more babbling goes on and Shiki stabs Roa (the last one), the fight ends... around 15 blows were present. There is not much movement when compared to Kara no Kyoukai, even if there were only 12 blows total, 11 from R-Shiki and 1 from Fujyo.

In Shingetsutan's case I'd say it's more of a touching moment because T-Shiki is pissed after seeing Arcueid die and during battles there are almost no superhuman physical feats from him, which is a plus for me in his case. Don't get me wrong, I did like whiny Shiki's fight scene, but it was better R-Shiki's ass-kicking moment.

Miraploy wrote:Someone stated that this wasn't really a movie... Well, I agree and disagree. I think it should've been a movie, I think it was supposed to be a movie. It was distributed stand-alone on DVD, it was in theaters, the separation between episodes is quite long (3 months or so, though we'll get the first few in a space of a month), and they marketed it as a movie. However, like many people stated, it simply lacks the coherence to be a movie.

If it was a 1:30~2:00 hours movie then they would have most likely tried to pack in the whole story and some butchering would have happened. They could have tried to stick together 2 chapters in a feature lenght film but that wouldn't be as marketable as doing it like this. As for it being a movie and marketed as one, as far as I know, it was, but japanese studios do their job differently than USan studios. It's another culture and another way of getting the product out and japanese people are acustomed to that. An example would be almost any DBZ, those usually are about 40~50 minutes long or so and they were marketed as stand alone movies, Kara no Kyoukai is marketed as a series of 7 "movies".


Kansho wrote:Even so, I think that they made a very good adaptation. I loved it. As an adaptation, is far better than the awful Tsukihime and the mediocre Fate

I've never seen F/SN anime, is that bad?
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby Kansho » May 24th, 2008, 11:22 pm

abscess wrote:
Kansho wrote:Even so, I think that they made a very good adaptation. I loved it. As an adaptation, is far better than the awful Tsukihime and the mediocre Fate

I've never seen F/SN anime, is that bad?
It's better than Shingetsutan Tsukihime adaptation-wise, but had big problems. Lacks all the expresive power of the visual novel, they only adapted Fate route (for better or worse), DEEN animation was totally random (awesome to totally awful depending of the scene/episode), they contradicted statements/information of the original material, they took away all the "in-universe" stuff... and more. It's not a bad anime either, its "so-so". It's only than Fate/stay night (same with Tsukihime) deserves something more than that.
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.
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Unread postby Beowulf Lee » May 25th, 2008, 12:53 am

abscess wrote:I've never seen F/SN anime, is that bad?

Yes, it's very bad. It has a pretty strong start but by the time that the directors started intersplicing and inventing their own dialogue (you know what I'm referring to) it went down hill very fast.

I once wrote about how the anime blows in detail on these boards, but I'm too lazy to find it.

But... at least the anime exists.
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Unread postby Infoceptor » May 25th, 2008, 3:11 am

I read an interview with Nasu about the Kara no Kyoukai movie. If you haven't seen it yet, its pretty good:

http://comipress.com/article/2007/10/12/2786

Two really nice tidbits of information. The first is that he considers Overlooking View the clumiest chapter so i'll probably get better from here on out. The second is that the movies will vary in length according to actual content. Thats really, really good to hear.

As for the movie itself, it definitely has some obvious holes to it. No need to repeat what other people have said, if you look close enough, you'll definitely see them. Honestly though, i really did enjoy it and thats the bottom line.

But the biggest thing keeping me from really appreciating it is, once again, the theme. I don't understand what the movie is trying to say and its bothering me. The movie's message is pretty fragmented like the plot and though i've pieced together my own interpretation, i would really like it if people could post their own. I'm not looking for spoilers or anything, just what, in your opinion, all that philosophical mumbo jumbo meant.
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Unread postby animefanzmg » May 25th, 2008, 9:01 pm

i think the whole floating thing is about the meaninglessness of life, human beings cannot fly under their own power they can only fall if they try. something along those lines.
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Unread postby Qaenyin Angelblade » May 25th, 2008, 11:02 pm

The 'philosophical mumbo jumbo' is just that, philosophical. It's meant to be something you consider, something that makes you think. Not something you simply take at face value. If you didn't simply understand it immediately without putting a lot of thought into the meaning, then it is serving it's purpose, actually.
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Unread postby PrimarchBentley » May 27th, 2008, 9:20 pm

abscess wrote:
- Why did this Fujyo girl was able to use that power?


Well, here's one little tidbit from Tsukihime to remember:
There are the four families listed as being demon hunters: Nanaya, Asagami, Ryougi, and... Fujyou. And remember, of the many features of the Nasu-verse, 'coincidence' is NOT one of the stronger elements... :wink: Of course, that's if the kanji for the family name bear out across the two...


On another tangent,
hey, look, what's the name of Akiha's private school again? Asagami, right...? :lol: Again, exact family spelling/relation to be compared.



As for the 'villian' and character development in KnK:
To be honest, I'm not sure we are 'supposed to' sympathize/empathize with her. I think, to some degree, I do. But not due to a particular scene, but rather the whole. Floating vs. flying, the butterfly vs. the dragonfly. Strength of deciding to die vs. the strength to continue living. Considering my own feelings when in high places, considering it in the light Tohko presents, and applying that to her situation, day in, day out, for those 10 years...

I'm not sure the intent is to 'make' us sympathize/empathize with her, but it's presented in such a way that we take from it what we will.

I've watched KnK 3 times now, and it's only after the third that I think I can empathize with her more. I can't say I agree with her, nor 'I would feel like that in her shoes.' Just that, in my perception of human nature, I could see someone turning out that way. It's understandable, it's... well, a very human reaction to things, that turned inhuman due to abilities beyond those of normal humans...
W.W.N.D. - What Would Nasu Do?
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Unread postby Neko Arc » May 28th, 2008, 7:21 pm

Kansho wrote:In the novel, Overlooking View was also exactly that way. Kara no Kyoukai begins to getting interesting during the next chapters. The first chapter is one of the worst (if isn't "the") of the whole series. The original chapter itself lacks all that things, and the chapters aren't time-linear, so that didn't help to this one. Even so, that's not a problem (see at Haruhi anime... :roll:)

Kinoko probably concived it first time as a experiment, a pilot chapter, he probably even wasn't thinking in a full series when he wroted it and released it in the net.


What? Knk was first released as 900 pages book, it was pretty much unsuccesful . Later the first 4 chapter were released for free with some Tsukihime copies and the net trying to use Tsukihime's success,but acording to Tsukihime Plus + Disk, it was useless,being very similar, people though that it was just a Tsukihime pilot and Knk continued ignored.

From moonlite world:

"A 900 page novel by the Type-Moon writer, prior to Tsukihime. Having a main character that has the same name and same ability, it can be considered a prototype of Tsukihime. They have a lot in common, but the underlying theme in this book probably goes much deeper. The writer once said in an interview that games have an advantage over novels because it can use pictures and music on top of text. For a novel to be just as interesting, it needs to be three times as interesting."
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Unread postby Kansho » May 28th, 2008, 7:36 pm

Yeah, I forgot the first edition. But Kinoko himself said that the first chapter is the clumiest one. And when Kodansha published Rakkyo as the typical 2 books edition (2004 one), gained a LOT of popularity.
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.
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Unread postby Neko Arc » May 28th, 2008, 8:35 pm

KnK was always very unpopular, the number of books reprinted is short and mostly bough by some Type -Moon fans. These movies are the best thing that could happen to Kara No Kyokai.

Anyone knows where the dvd 2 is released?
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Unread postby Kansho » May 28th, 2008, 8:47 pm

Neko Arc wrote:KnK was always very unpopular, the number of books reprinted is short and mostly bough by some Type -Moon fans. These movies are the best thing that could happen to Kara No Kyokai.

Anyone knows where the dvd 2 is released?
The novels sold more than 500,000 copies. It's a pretty good number, I didn't call that "unpopular".

Ok, Tsukihime and Fate/stay night are far popular, but that didn't turn Rakkyo "unpopular".
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.
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Unread postby Chronowraith » May 28th, 2008, 9:14 pm

Kansho wrote:
Neko Arc wrote:KnK was always very unpopular, the number of books reprinted is short and mostly bough by some Type -Moon fans. These movies are the best thing that could happen to Kara No Kyokai.

Anyone knows where the dvd 2 is released?
The novels sold more than 500,000 copies. It's a pretty good number, I didn't call that "unpopular".

Ok, Tsukihime and Fate/stay night are far popular, but that didn't turn Rakkyo "unpopular".


:D *owns it and it proud of it*
though it is very difficult for me with my limited japanese to get through it, i constantly look stuff up and take notes about strange grammar that I'm unsure of how to translate :s. The bakatsuki helped me a lot in the early stages whenever i was unsure but since i passed where they were it's gotten a lot harder :P.

Very much liked the movie and I am eagerly awaiting the release of the rest, though I want to finish the book before I see the movies of the other chapters.
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Unread postby Neko Arc » May 28th, 2008, 11:17 pm

Kansho wrote:
Neko Arc wrote:KnK was always very unpopular, the number of books reprinted is short and mostly bough by some Type -Moon fans. These movies are the best thing that could happen to Kara No Kyokai.

Anyone knows where the dvd 2 is released?
The novels sold more than 500,000 copies. It's a pretty good number, I didn't call that "unpopular".

Ok, Tsukihime and Fate/stay night are far popular, but that didn't turn Rakkyo "unpopular".


is a decent number , but is far from other novels.
Battle Royale
Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu
Zero no Tsukaima
Full Metal Panic!
Shakugan no Shana
Maria-sama ga Miteru
Saiunkoku Monogatari -
Shinkyoku Soukai
New Record of Lodoss War
Mimizuku to Yoru no Ou
Hack novels
The Twelve Kingdoms novels
DDD( yes DDD sells more than Knk...)
The list goes and goes for at least 122 modern stuff.

Nodoby is saying that is bad, is awesome, but was always in the shadow of other type moon stuff( i know is technicall type moon but...) this kind of thing is what it needed to finally be able to have a name of their own, and probably the new reprinting of the novels will do quite well.
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Unread postby Phoenician » May 29th, 2008, 8:44 am

I saw the anime for Suzumiya Haruhi, I had to have the wiki open the whole time to figure out chronological order, and it still didn't make sense, the episode right before ep 4 (I think it was 10) had more of a development of the Haruhi-Kyon relationship than the final episode (which was 9 I think), was the manga as chaotic in plot development?

oh and I watched Record of Lodoss War, Ikuzo Spark-Taisho!

as for manga, I have a short attention span, only book series I follow are ones by Robert Ludlum (his random titles+ Covert One, I've read them all tho and he's dead, WHAT NOW!?!), Sword of Truth (Which is also ended), Wheel of Time (ending soon... and author also died...), Presidential Agent (Sporiadic releases at best), and lastly Origins (Last book coming out... August? Brisinger)
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Unread postby miszou » May 29th, 2008, 9:54 am

Phoenician wrote:I saw the anime for Suzumiya Haruhi, I had to have the wiki open the whole time to figure out chronological order, and it still didn't make sense, the episode right before ep 4 (I think it was 10) had more of a development of the Haruhi-Kyon relationship than the final episode (which was 9 I think), was the manga as chaotic in plot development?

oh and I watched Record of Lodoss War, Ikuzo Spark-Taisho!

as for manga, I have a short attention span, only book series I follow are ones by Robert Ludlum (his random titles+ Covert One, I've read them all tho and he's dead, WHAT NOW!?!), Sword of Truth (Which is also ended), Wheel of Time (ending soon... and author also died...), Presidential Agent (Sporiadic releases at best), and lastly Origins (Last book coming out... August? Brisinger)


you mean novel, when you say manga right?

The novel series of Haruhi has a normal chronological timeline. How ever, since he published short stories in magazines, which were bundled later on, some short stories suddenly jump back in time. Often they describe a period that was not yet covered in previous stories. So it's quite easy to follow in general, but

the aspect of time traveling makes it a bit harder though :P It wasn't covered in s1 of the anime, but forms an important part of the story. I guess they will build s2 around this.


The ep with the Haruhi-Kyon relation boost (although so it seems) is actually
the end of the first novel. In the anime however they took stories from the frist 4 (or so) novels to make an entire season, they wanted to use the end of novel 1 as the finale, so they screwed with the chronological order.


As for the short attention span, I know what you mean ^^ But I guess novels can fascinate me so much that I actually concentrate more then anything then xD (like with the KnK novel ^^).
You are here alone again
In your sweet insanity
All too calm, you hide yourself from reality
Do you call it solitude? Do you call it liberty?
When all the world turns away to leave you lonely
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Unread postby Einherjar » May 29th, 2008, 1:42 pm

Beowulf Lee wrote:
abscess wrote:I've never seen F/SN anime, is that bad?

Yes, it's very bad. It has a pretty strong start but by the time that the directors started intersplicing and inventing their own dialogue (you know what I'm referring to) it went down hill very fast.

I once wrote about how the anime blows in detail on these boards, but I'm too lazy to find it.

But... at least the anime exists.


At least most people aren't out of character and the art is pretty good. The manga is horrible.
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Unread postby abscess » May 29th, 2008, 10:20 pm

Einherjar wrote:At least most people aren't out of character and the art is pretty good. The manga is horrible.

Really?? I was thinking of reading the F/SN manga instead of watching the anime.... I thought that the F/SN manga would be at the same level as the Tsukihime manga.
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby AlinSabel » May 29th, 2008, 10:32 pm

abscess wrote:
Einherjar wrote:At least most people aren't out of character and the art is pretty good. The manga is horrible.

Really?? I was thinking of reading the F/SN manga instead of watching the anime.... I thought that the F/SN manga would be at the same level as the Tsukihime manga.

No. The manga looks absolutely terrible. Truly, you will scratch out your eyes.
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Unread postby abscess » May 29th, 2008, 10:48 pm

AlinSabel wrote:
abscess wrote:
Einherjar wrote:At least most people aren't out of character and the art is pretty good. The manga is horrible.

Really?? I was thinking of reading the F/SN manga instead of watching the anime.... I thought that the F/SN manga would be at the same level as the Tsukihime manga.

No. The manga looks absolutely terrible. Truly, you will scratch out your eyes.

DAMN!! I like my eyes!!
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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