tatari/nanaya in fate stay night? (what if..)

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Unread postby Raitei » September 27th, 2008, 12:08 am

gexer64 wrote:
nanaya_shinya wrote:Servants don't "die"...their temporary bodies disappears and turns back into Heroic Spirits


So their existence as a servant "dies."
tohno would NOT be able to do that. he can only see the "death" of the thing itself, not its existence. maybe ryougi could, but ryougi >>>>> tohno. nuff said.
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Unread postby Shikiller » September 27th, 2008, 12:52 am

It is not know at all if Shiki can or not see the lines of death that Servants may have. Anyone who says otherwise is speculation.
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Unread postby kensain » September 27th, 2008, 5:06 am

I agree with shikiller. This is actually quite similar to a bunch of fans arguing whether this or that popstar is gay.

Skipping to an almost unrelated topic, don't you think berserker vs kouma would be the epic fight of the century?
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Unread postby Raitei » September 27th, 2008, 5:15 am

It is not know at all if Shiki can or not see the lines of death that Servants may have. Anyone who says otherwise is speculation.
no speculation = no discussion. if everything is clearly stated from the beginning, what's the point? same goes with caliburn = only usable by saber / king.
kesain wrote:Skipping to an almost unrelated topic, don't you think berserker vs kouma would be the epic fight of the century?
uh, maybe? lol @ kouma's expression after god hand effect.
Last edited by Raitei on September 27th, 2008, 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby kensain » September 27th, 2008, 5:17 am

Raitei wrote:
Shikiller wrote:It is not know at all if Shiki can or not see the lines of death that Servants may have. Anyone who says otherwise is speculation.
no speculation = no discussion. if everything is clearly stated from the beginning, what's the point?

We don't get threads like this, which is mostly just people bashing each other with thier opinion? :wink:
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Unread postby Katakara » September 28th, 2008, 6:50 am

Raitei wrote:
gexer64 wrote:
nanaya_shinya wrote:Servants don't "die"...their temporary bodies disappears and turns back into Heroic Spirits


So their existence as a servant "dies."
tohno would NOT be able to do that. he can only see the "death" of the thing itself, not its existence. maybe ryougi could, but ryougi >>>>> tohno. nuff said.

aha, yes, i agree completely. XD

I dunno, but i remembered ryougi saying "if there was a god, i could probably kill that also" when i read what Raitei said... so... I'm guessing spirits and fictitious characters would be able to be killed by her as well... i'm just guessing... this thread is making me confused... i'm very brain dead right now..-_-
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Unread postby Rikh » September 28th, 2008, 8:01 am

T Shiki probably can be a bit more accurate than R Shiki
T Shiki see's superimposed lines on objects, while R Shiki see's colors somewhat imposed on objects

However what can give T Shiki a headache the size of the mountain would not probably phase R Shiki a bit. Killing Arcueid might be a little hard, but she shouldn't have too much difficulty seeing lines (if they do exist at the certain time)

Also getting into the fact that R Shiki has a body several times stronger than the normal type, she definitely can surpass him in agility/physical contact


Also while Tohno shiki can see lines, he lacks the personality to truly use them against others unless they are inhuman, and have killed a large amount of people. While Ryougi Shiki would totally slice a person to death purely on interest, and is really only suppressed by boredom, kokuto, or other small factors
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Unread postby Katakara » September 28th, 2008, 9:14 am

Rikh wrote:T Shiki probably can be a bit more accurate than R Shiki
T Shiki see's superimposed lines on objects, while R Shiki see's colors somewhat imposed on objects

However what can give T Shiki a headache the size of the mountain would not probably phase R Shiki a bit. Killing Arcueid might be a little hard, but she shouldn't have too much difficulty seeing lines (if they do exist at the certain time)

Also getting into the fact that R Shiki has a body several times stronger than the normal type, she definitely can surpass him in agility/physical contact


Also while Tohno shiki can see lines, he lacks the personality to truly use them against others unless they are inhuman, and have killed a large amount of people. While Ryougi Shiki would totally slice a person to death purely on interest, and is really only suppressed by boredom, kokuto, or other small factors

well from what I observed from the original tsukhime and the first 4 chapters of kara...

(This is a very random rant from me and there's a summary at the very end, so you can spare yourself the trouble of readin...^^")
it seems that ryougi can "activate" her death perception somehow... just an interesting thing i noticed... and her perception of the lines don't seem to increase or her ability doesn't seem to get stronger, unlike tohno where the more he uses it, the stronger it gets... maybe he will surpass ryougi someday? (jks.... or not) but then again, he'd probably go crazy before that could ever happen...-_-

and ryougi's body is stronger? O_O nobody ever told me that... unless you're talking about the fact that tohno is anemic or has some other random condition... and I guess Ryougi's arm does help... But in any case, ryougi's body is still human and she CAN die... or at least, that's what i know...

and yeah, I guess for ryougi it really depends on her interest because she just seems to ignore the things she doesn't really care about... but i guess the same can be said for Tohno, but his decisions are more dependant on needs... and by needs i mean like "random thing destroying the town" kind of thing... but then again, i'm quite ignorant sometimes and my accusations may be totally wrong...

But a major flaw for both of them is that they can't see lines on things that they aren't familiar with(if it's even possible for tohno to see concepts...), so i guess maybe a servant would be quite a bit of trouble for them considering their power... unless they get like... i dunno, a heroic cat or something with like nothing but increased hissing powers... -_- i'm sure i'm underestimating them, but that's what i see just in the initial encounter...

oh wait, don't lines just appear for tohno? doesn't he just see lines on everything?... AHHH MY HEAD HURTS >< somebody please explain this for me... i have no idea what i just wrote... like at all...


I think that basically all I said was that Tohno has awsome powers and all, but they're not very strong and his body is weak-ish... and ryougi is awsome and badass, but she's still human and has very selective tastes...

Random side note: If tsukihime/melty blood/fate/any other random nasu stuff spilled into each other, who would get the bigger harem? O_O
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Unread postby nanaya_shinya » September 28th, 2008, 9:35 am

"The lines on servants exists, you just can't see them even with your MEoDP."
well, that's just a theory based on how TShiki was able to "kill" Arc when he dismantled her to 17 peices... during the day.

The final verdict on whether or not Tohno Shiki could see the lines of death on Servants lie on Kinoko Nasu himself.

But really, shouldn't you discuss about this in that thread about Shiki's Mystic Eyes of Death Perception?
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Unread postby Katakara » September 28th, 2008, 9:50 am

nanaya_shinya wrote:"The lines on servants exists, you just can't see them even with your MEoDP."
well, that's just a theory based on how TShiki was able to "kill" Arc when he dismantled her to 17 peices... during the day.

The final verdict on whether or not Tohno Shiki could see the lines of death on Servants lie on Kinoko Nasu himself.

But really, shouldn't you discuss about this in that thread about Shiki's Mystic Eyes of Death Perception?

oh yeah... ^^; sorry about that... i got us sidetracked...

anyways... i think that it would be pretty funny if they did cross over... would there be a custody battle over who gets to protect the world?.. or at least fuyuki... speaking of which, where does tsukihime take place anyways? I kinda wondered that for a while...
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Unread postby nanaya_shinya » September 28th, 2008, 9:54 am

Katakara wrote:anyways... i think that it would be pretty funny if they did cross over... would there be a custody battle over who gets to protect the world?.. or at least fuyuki... speaking of which, where does tsukihime take place anyways? I kinda wondered that for a while...

According to my memory, Tsukihime took place in Misaki town.
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Unread postby Katakara » September 28th, 2008, 10:06 am

nanaya_shinya wrote:
Katakara wrote:anyways... i think that it would be pretty funny if they did cross over... would there be a custody battle over who gets to protect the world?.. or at least fuyuki... speaking of which, where does tsukihime take place anyways? I kinda wondered that for a while...

According to my memory, Tsukihime took place in Misaki town.
O_O well, no idea where that is... the backgrounds from fate and tsukhime were really similar... well, to me anyways...
but then again, schools and cities in general tend to look pretty similar... in china, there's about 5 schools that i've seen that look like that, too... -_-
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Unread postby Shirou » October 9th, 2008, 10:40 pm

Raitei wrote: no. why? because servants are outside the realm of gaia. the world is trying to crush them for their very existence. that's why prana is needed to sustain their existences. nuff said.


Raitei wrote: there's an additional reason why servants are different from reality marbles. they are already dead. you can't kill something that no longer has death. and as a sidenote, servants do not die when they are killed. nuff said. .



Raitei wrote:
gexer64 wrote:
nanaya_shinya wrote:Servants don't "die"...their temporary bodies disappears and turns back into Heroic Spirits



So their existence as a servant "dies."
tohno would NOT be able to do that. he can only see the "death" of the thing itself, not its existence. maybe ryougi could, but ryougi >>>>> tohno. nuff said.



DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT. Nuff said.
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Unread postby Rikh » October 9th, 2008, 11:15 pm

i dont know what you mean, everything makes sense to me...

Servants are killed, but its only their copy that dies... Basically their all Kage Bushins of the real thing ;)

Tohno has some trouble with concepts... Killing Tatari at least required help from a certain ally =P

Ryougi i wouldnt know if she would be able to, but i do have to say that she is certainly more capable at the time than Tohno

(Although Tohno's eyes are definitely progressively stronger than Ryougi's. With enough time, his eyes will overpower hers easily :wink:
But thats a discussion for another day
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » October 9th, 2008, 11:49 pm

Well I'm not sure if this was mentioned before, but I would of thought that if the Tatari was actually summoned I'd think he'd be in the Avenger Class. The reason for that he's kind of the same on how Angra Manyu is like more or less.

As for Nanya/Tohno Shiki, well first off, doesn't he have to be dead to begin with for him to be summoned into Grail War. Second, he would probablly be an Assassin since his eyes and all. Although, if it was for the Mystic Eyes of death I would have to agree on Ryougi being the better choice of course.
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