A question concerning the author's writing

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A question concerning the author's writing

Unread postby Beowulf Lee » May 14th, 2007, 1:27 am

I guess this question is directed directly to mirror moon's translators. I've read that Type Moon's writer Kinoku Nasu's style in writing is really unique. I don't mind long strung out answers if you have the time, but how exactly does this guy write?
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Unread postby Henduluin » May 14th, 2007, 3:36 pm

This chair, this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair.
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Unread postby Qaenyin Angelblade » May 14th, 2007, 6:16 pm

I'm sorry to say that it actually took me about two months before I noticed that Hisui's 22C in Melty Blood was a reference to that scene :oops:
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Unread postby Beowulf Lee » May 14th, 2007, 7:31 pm

Henduluin wrote:This chair, this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair. this chair.


What...?
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Unread postby Henduluin » May 14th, 2007, 8:05 pm

Exactly. It's a direct quote (more or less) from one of the scenes in Tsukihime. And not the worst example either.
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.....

Unread postby Impractic_Shiki » May 14th, 2007, 8:28 pm

The writing is basically like a stream of consciousness.

Or rather that was the vibe I got.

That explains the fluid randomness of situations such as that chair. Normally writers want differentiation and a story suitable of the public. The Tsukihime subject matter, for example, is something you'll never see as a novel here (not just because of the random sex either). The fantasy genre itself struggles enough here. Such a dark work would probably die out or have to be published by a small company in that field.

The insanity vibe is contingent with the stream-like writing. The simplicity is what makes it so.
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Unread postby Qaenyin Angelblade » May 15th, 2007, 6:42 am

Not necessarily the case. Dark novels are quite often popular in america. Take the series "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" for example. It makes Tsukihime look tame in some respects, though it isnt quite as graphic.
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Unread postby Impractic_Shiki » May 15th, 2007, 1:56 pm

In reference to the Tsukihime subject matter there was more than just the darkness. The Japanese culture doesn't make that popular a reading on a wide scale.

As for dark series, there are some that have made it. However, they generally don't get the respect they deserve. Thus the reason for my comments.
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Re: .....

Unread postby Beowulf Lee » May 15th, 2007, 8:00 pm

Impractic_Shiki wrote:The writing is basically like a stream of consciousness.

Stream of consciousness? In general, most of the text (at least from mm's translations) is just first person narration, logical and coherent, nothing like something along the lines of Faulkner's Quentin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sound_ ... _2.2C_1910 . I don't seem to remember that quote about the chair though, but I do remember never going "WTF this doesn't make sense" at anytime when I was reading through Tsukihime. Lastly, I'm not talking genres, but writing styles.
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Unread postby Qaenyin Angelblade » May 15th, 2007, 11:36 pm

Impractic_Shiki wrote:In reference to the Tsukihime subject matter there was more than just the darkness. The Japanese culture doesn't make that popular a reading on a wide scale.

As for dark series, there are some that have made it. However, they generally don't get the respect they deserve. Thus the reason for my comments.


I'd agree with that, actually. As for Japanese Culture, a lot of it has to do with the fact that the general public in the US commonly is more interested in big flash-bang-wham action, and less so with character interaction or development. A good example is the general unsuccessfulness of the Xenosaga series in comparison to more high-action RPGs like Final Fantasy or such. Another good example is Ar Tonelico(which actually has a pretty decent amount of Visual Novel bits in it. In fact much of the character development is handled like a Kinetic Novel using the Cosmospheres), which didn't get much of a fanbase because of the style of it.
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.........

Unread postby Impractic_Shiki » May 15th, 2007, 11:53 pm

Stream of consciousness? In general, most of the text (at least from mm's translations) is just first person narration, logical and coherent, nothing like something along the lines of Faulkner's Quentin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sound_ ... _2.2C_1910 . I don't seem to remember that quote about the chair though, but I do remember never going "WTF this doesn't make sense" at anytime when I was reading through Tsukihime. Lastly, I'm not talking genres, but writing styles.


A stream of consciousness can be logical and coherent. It can also be difficult to follow. It's a matter of the person's mind whose writing it. I heavily got the vibe while playing it myself during my reading of it. So I expressed my thoughts on the manner.


I'd agree with that, actually. As for Japanese Culture, a lot of it has to do with the fact that the general public in the US commonly is more interested in big flash-bang-wham action, and less so with character interaction or development. A good example is the general unsuccessfulness of the Xenosaga series in comparison to more high-action RPGs like Final Fantasy or such. Another good example is Ar Tonelico(which actually has a pretty decent amount of Visual Novel bits in it. In fact much of the character development is handled like a Kinetic Novel using the Cosmospheres), which didn't get much of a fanbase because of the style of it.


Yes, I'll agree on the cultural attitude that makes it difficult. It's kind of hard to compare the Final Fantasy series overall as it's had a more recent decline in my opinion. I liked the range of FF6-9 but the rest wasn't up to par. As for Xenosaga, part of the Square team broke off to do that---so it's basically comparing writers in a company. I saw the Ar Tonelico anime myself, but I haven't tried the game. I personally like the Lunar RPG franchise best nowadays.
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Re: .........

Unread postby Beowulf Lee » May 16th, 2007, 11:06 pm

Impractic_Shiki wrote:A stream of consciousness can be logical and coherent. It can also be difficult to follow. It's a matter of the person's mind whose writing it. I heavily got the vibe while playing it myself during my reading of it. So I expressed my thoughts on the manner.

I understand that much; but what I'm trying to say is that most of what I saw was simply first person narration. By logical and coherent, I mean in the sense of an expository essay; the resultant text is a conscious effort at organizing one's thoughts. From what I understand of stream of consciousness is that there is no such effort of organization, that the character's thoughts and paths in logic are presented raw. Like this example:

"The chemist turned back page after page. Sandy shrivelled smell he
seems to have. Shrunken skull. And old. Quest for the philosopher's stone.
The alchemists. Drugs age you after mental excitement. Lethargy then.
Why? Reaction. A lifetime in a night. Gradually changes your character.
Living all the day among herbs, ointments, disinfectants. All his
alabaster lilypots. Mortar and pestle. Aq. Dist. Fol. Laur. Te Virid.
Smell almost cure you like the dentist's doorbell. Doctor Whack."
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........

Unread postby Impractic_Shiki » May 17th, 2007, 3:28 am

Yeah, there's obvious thought into most of it. But chunks are like a stream of consciousness especially towards the end of each scenario. Since it's common, I wonder if it was originally written purely as a stream of consciousness and then edited into what it was with chunks remaining unedited so there is wonderous moments like the chair scenario. >_>
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Unread postby Pierrot » June 24th, 2007, 9:37 pm

I'm not even a translator so I shouldn't even be here technically, but there was a thread in 2channel I saw a moment ago that provided a sort of playful guide to how to parody Nasu Kinoko's style which I thought was rather accurate, not to mention hilarious (fate/stay neetwww).

frequently uses these phrases:

-~ga~naraba, ~ha~darouka.
-if ~ is ~, then is ~, ~?

-yue ni OO
->therefore it is OO

-'dakara shimatsu gawarui'
->'hence it is troublesome'

-"-----------" [I think this merits an explanation; the use of long lines to signify pauses, or time slowing.
for example->'----------I shall ask you. Are you my master?'

-ina
->no

-~ na atari
->the way it is~[, certainly~]


often:

-things start happening suddenly within a scene
-uses phrases such as '------ah' and '------oh, so it is' during scenes of recollection.

also uses expressions like:
'--------aa, genjitu nano ka'
'-------oh, is this reality.'

'Danjite.'
'Never.'

'OO nado arie nai'
'such OO is impossible'

moaning sounds like:
'Aha---a----a---haa---a---'

heavy usage of katakana or a particular word:
'korose korose korose...'
'kill kill kill...'

found it here, for those who are interested: http://imihu.blog30.fc2.com/blog-entry-339.html


If I may offer my own opinion, talking strictly of the novels, since the games seem to be pretty much covered, he often mixes a quite literary, almost formal style of words (such as you might find on a law book or a philosophical paper), punctuated with spontaneous plays of garbled language.

It's interesting to note the rigid, somewhat pretentious style bordering on archaic. You can see it in stuff like Kyogoku Natsuhiko, whose work the author professes to admire.

Sorry for the unwelcome intrusion.
Last edited by Pierrot on June 24th, 2007, 10:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postby Beowulf Lee » June 24th, 2007, 10:08 pm

If that really is the case, then wowzers, talk about lost in translation (BakaTsuki).
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Re: A question concerning the author's writing

Unread postby Ryuusoul » June 25th, 2007, 12:38 am

Beowulf Lee wrote:I guess this question is directed directly to mirror moon's translators. I've read that Type Moon's writer Kinoku Nasu's style in writing is really unique. I don't mind long strung out answers if you have the time, but how exactly does this guy write?


Like crazy.
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Re: A question concerning the author's writing

Unread postby Xavier » June 25th, 2007, 1:05 am

Ryuusoul wrote:
Beowulf Lee wrote:I guess this question is directed directly to mirror moon's translators. I've read that Type Moon's writer Kinoku Nasu's style in writing is really unique. I don't mind long strung out answers if you have the time, but how exactly does this guy write?


Like crazy.

I guess whatever that comes to mind that seems to relate to the scene when he's writing it and he'll write it.
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Unread postby Ryuusoul » June 25th, 2007, 3:47 pm

I'll just put it this way. You can search the internet in Japanese and find many site/forums that are discussing what Nasu meant when he wrote X, Y, and Z. I don't mean interpretation, but literally, "What was he saying?"

Nasu has this tendency to make up words, intentionally switch kanji based on meaning or pronunciation, or do any number of things that give native Japanese readers trouble reading his works.

Suffice it to say, he's pretty hard to translate at times.
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Unread postby Eriol-kun » June 25th, 2007, 4:41 pm

I believe you.

Heck, sometimes the translations themselves are dense enough to make you wonder "Huh?". Not that it's something bad, actually it's awesome... Somehow the chair scene always comes to mind when I try to describe Nasu's style though. ._."

Thus I've earned a new level of respect for the translators and Ryuusoul~ >_<.
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Unread postby Beowulf Lee » June 25th, 2007, 5:49 pm

A couple of questions. How does he make new words in Japanese? String together random hiragana and/or katakana? Or does he write new kanji all together? From a Japanese critical standpoint, is his writing considered exceptional (in the English equivalent like Faulkner, Joyce, etc) or pretentious (in the English equivalent like... I don't know).
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