Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

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Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby XgenAdam » June 21st, 2009, 3:57 pm

After reading other threads where some people have mentioned that Ryogi's eyes are different from Tohno's i have become confused. Especially confusing is that some people say Ryogi's eyes are stronger than Tohno's (I always thought that Tohno's eyes were stronger as he could see the points on inorganic objects as well as organic ones wheras Ryogi seemed to struggle to see points on organic objects...)

Also what was mentioned was something about being able to see concepts.

can anyone help clear up my confusion?

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Re: Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby solopy567 » June 21st, 2009, 5:28 pm

The only difference I'm aware of is that Tohno's eyes see the "death" of things while Ryougi's sees the "origin" of things.
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Re: Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby Atriel » June 21st, 2009, 6:20 pm

I can't remember all that well, but overall: Ryougi can kill anything. Tohno can not. Also, Ryuogi doesn't suffer any side effects when using them.
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Re: Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » June 22nd, 2009, 3:38 am

Not only that,
but Ryougi kind of switches to another personality to bring out her eyes. While for Tohno, he doesn't have that ability as all, hence the Mystic Eye Killer Glasses that he wears.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.
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Re: Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby Arayashiki » June 22nd, 2009, 9:02 am

Atriel wrote:I can't remember all that well, but overall: Ryougi can kill anything. Tohno can not. Also, Ryuogi doesn't suffer any side effects when using them.

I think that Ryougi Shiki, like Tohno Shiki, cannot kill things outside of earth's concept of death or something like that
Also, Tohno can see dot's as well as line, whereas Ryougi sees only the lines
Though, I'm not 100% sure on this, feel free to correct me
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Re: Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » June 22nd, 2009, 9:22 pm

Although even though thier power is the same it's slightly different.
It's because Ryougi Shiki can see the "Origin of Living Things" which also includes barriers, and other Mystic Eye powers. While Tohno Shiki can see the "Death of All Things" which means he can pretty much destory almost anything within reason. Also, it explains why he sees many lines not only on living objects, but on non living objects as well.


As it would show the Mytic Eyes they have are similar, but different down to the finer detail of it all.
I mean by a natural standpoint Ryougi and better control, but can't "kill" things that Tohno Shiki can. While Tohno Shiki has the power to "kill" things, he doesn't have control over it since he has to wear Mystic Eye Killer Glasses.


For some reason I feel like I just restated what was said in the Ryougi vs. Tohno thread now.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.
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Re: Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby Arayashiki » June 22nd, 2009, 11:33 pm

For some reason I feel like I just restated what was said in the Ryougi vs. Tohno thread now.[/quote]
Nah if it's purely a comparison between the two, and your not being biased and calling someone 'better' than someone else your doing just what the poster asks, explaining the difference between the two 'eyes'
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Re: Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby XgenAdam » June 23rd, 2009, 9:56 am

It's because Ryougi Shiki can see the "Origin of Living Things" which also includes barriers, and other Mystic Eye powers. While Tohno Shiki can see the "Death of All Things" which means he can pretty much destory almost anything within reason. Also, it explains why he sees many lines not only on living objects, but on non living objects as well.


If Rougi can see the "Origin of Living Things" does that mean that she cannot see the origin (lines of death) of non living things


btw thanks for the replies
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Re: Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby Arayashiki » June 23rd, 2009, 10:15 am

From what I can gather from her perception, if something has been 'born' (I mean physically and figuratively) she can kill it.
But a contradiction!
I personally haven't read through the novel, but in the movies Shiki saw lines on the calander and her synthetic arm and I think she can kill magecraft too.
But I'm not all that informed about her eyes soo yeah - correct me if I've said something incorrect
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Re: Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » June 23rd, 2009, 2:47 pm

Well
in the 5th movie she was abile to "kill" the bariers. Also, Touko did mention that if Souren wanted to keep her restrained he should of used concrete instead of magical barriers. I think the part of her "killing" magecraft might have something to do with how magecraft has something to do with the origin. I mean it was created by a magus so that would mean it can be destroyed though.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.
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Re: Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby s4itox » June 24th, 2009, 2:44 pm

Kid-Wolf wrote:Well
in the 5th movie she was abile to "kill" the bariers. Also, Touko did mention that if Souren wanted to keep her restrained he should of used concrete instead of magical barriers. I think the part of her "killing" magecraft might have something to do with how magecraft has something to do with the origin. I mean it was created by a magus so that would mean it can be destroyed though.


I'm not entirely sure why everyone keeps bringing up this concrete box as a way of saying Ryougi's inferior at physically destroying with the CnM. If you take away both Shikis' knives, they're going to have a tough time getting out of a concrete box.
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Re: Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby Chaos Chaud » June 24th, 2009, 4:19 pm

But even with a knife, it's difficult to R.Shiki escape a concrete box
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Re: Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby Arayashiki » June 25th, 2009, 1:19 pm

Chaos Chaud wrote:
But even with a knife, it's difficult to R.Shiki escape a concrete box

I was thinking that she would be crushed by the falling concrete (like if you take out a main support, the structure collapses) If she tried to kill a wall or something, I never though of it as that Shiki wouldn't be able to physically break through the concrete or something, but that you brought it up that makes sense perfect sense. Remember when she traced the 'zombie's' line's barehanded in the fourth chapter? she broke her finger(s)
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Re: Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » June 25th, 2009, 2:01 pm

I think what Chaos was trying to say was,
that Souren should of encased Ryougi in in conctrete. Meaning as a prision instead of just killing her. I mean he did need her alive so he could find a way to reach the Point of Origin through her eyes. So he kind of needs her alive for that point in time until he obtains what he was searching for all this time.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.
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Re: Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby AlinSabel » June 26th, 2009, 2:00 am

You all...

*sighs*

The 'difference' is that Ryogi cannot use her hands and the like to cut things that are harder than her hands. Case: her nails broke when tracing a zombie's lines (this is in the novel AND the movie).
Tohno does not appear to have this problem.

Hence, as concrete is harder than human nails, she would not have been able to escape without an implement (bet she wishes she had a pair of glasses, haha). Magic, however, apparently does not register on the Mohs scale. :P
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Re: Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby Iiyo » July 12th, 2009, 9:52 pm

To boil it down for you:

Tohno Shiki sees lines and dots.
Ryougi Shiki sees lines and dots.

Tohno Shiki can kill anything that's a physical object. He could also kill Akiha's jail hair, but this was retconned as being a Jougan ability and not actually Mystic Eyes.
Ryougi Shiki can kill anything. We know she can kill people, physical objects, magecraft, diseases, ghosts, and intentions.
If Tohno Shiki strains himself, he could also kill poisons, vampire blood, and even Arcueid's link to the world. Doing this strains and possibly fries his brain.

Tohno Shiki needs Mystic Eye Killer glasses because he is not suited to the Eyes and his eyes will overload his brain and kill him.
Ryougi Shiki doesn't need glasses because her body is perfectly suited to the Mystic Eyes.

Misconceptions:

About the concrete box:
Touko tells Araya Souren that if he really wanted to trap Shiki, he should've used a concrete box instead of magecraft barriers.
The misconception: People usually interpret this as "Her Mystic Eyes are weak against concrete, but not magecraft." From that, they conclude "Tohno Shiki has stronger Mystic Eyes than Ryougi Shiki for killing physical objects, but Ryougi Shiki can kill anything non-physical with ease."
The truth: Shiki is disarmed at this point. Neither Nanaya nor Ryougi can kill a concrete box without some kind of cutting implement, but Ryougi Shiki can kill the magecraft barriers with her bare hands. That was Araya's mistake. At no point in Rakkyo was it suggested that Ryougi Shiki has difficulty killing physical objects.

Ryougi Shiki cannot see dots:
The misconception: I think it was sheer inattentiveness, this one, or maybe just basing it off of the OVAs - not sure how they handled it. Anyway, people seem to believe that Shiki cannot see death dots.
The truth: Shiki dot-stabbed Fujyou Kirie (ghost girl), Asagami Fujino's appendicitis, and Araya Souren in the first fight at the apartments. (Araya Souren has all sorts of ungodly protections against mystic eyes of death perception, so he still had a considerable lifespan left after the dot-stab, hence the second fight.) If you need a quote, here's one from Chapter 1 of the novel, against Fujyou Kirie: "One on each of her legs, one on her back, and one point on her left chest. The cutting section called death can be certainly seen. The one on her chest would be a good one to aim for. That would be an instant kill." So, Shiki can definitely see dots.

PS: The Type-Moon wiki has an article on it: http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Mystic_E ... Perception It's kind of messy to read and might actually confuse you more, though.
Last edited by Iiyo on July 13th, 2009, 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby AlinSabel » July 12th, 2009, 10:39 pm

IIRC, Tohno can use his nails and stuff to attack physical objects.

Ryogi breaks her nails against the zombie. :/
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Re: Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby Iiyo » July 13th, 2009, 3:54 am

Having played Tsukihime, I don't remember anything like that. As far as I could tell Nanaya Shiki always used a knife. Ryougi Shiki didn't break her nails against the zombie, btw. She broke her finger.
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Re: Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby shirou12 » July 13th, 2009, 9:25 am

i think about tohno's i think it was mentioned at the prologue.
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Re: Difference betweek Ryogi's and Tohno's Mystic eyes?

Unread postby SolarAdept » July 13th, 2009, 3:16 pm

Shiki(M) did almost trace a line on the hospital bed with his fingernails, but he couldn't get them deep enough so he took something sharp.
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