The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors (Possible spoilers)

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The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors (Possible spoilers)

Unread postby solopy567 » May 11th, 2009, 1:25 am

I have some questions about these guys. According to this article from wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampires_(Kinoko_Nasu)

It seems that there are many DAA that were not mentioned anywhere in Tsukihime, Kagetsu Tohya, or Melty Blood. There is a very extensive list, and I was wondering if any of them will show up in the future.

I'm very curious of what can these vampires contribute to the story. I heard a lot of talk about ORT, but I dont know its significance. So I would like to know where would wikipedia get this list, and I would like some information about some of the more popular DAA, apart from Roa, Nero, and TATARI.
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Re: The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors

Unread postby AvatarofRage » May 11th, 2009, 1:38 am

The reason ORT is significant is because ORT is TYPE-Mercury, putting it on par with Crimson Moon, althouh I suspect Crim is more powerful.

Personally, I'm hoping Altrouge gets to be a main villain in future, if Nasu ever gets around to making Tsukihime 2...
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Re: The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » May 11th, 2009, 3:12 am

If Altrouge ever gets her moment with the second Tsukihime game, she'll fall prey to the infamous Tohno Gland. So I see her as another girl that will eventually be a part of Shiki's harem wheater he wants her to or not.

As for that list you've posted it seems there are 6 seats that are empty. Either it's because he didn't think of those remaining positions and who should fill them, or else. In any case it seems that Sacchin could take up one of those slots since she does have the ability of being one of the 27DAAs if you ask me. On the up saide at least I got a bit of a better feel from the remining 27DAA that were never mentioned in Tsukihime or even Fate as well.
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Re: The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors

Unread postby AvatarofRage » May 11th, 2009, 7:37 am

I recall someone mentioning in another topic that Satsuki takes the place of either Roa or Nero (I forget which), but I've no idea if it was de facto, or if the Church actually labeled her as such.
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Re: The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » May 11th, 2009, 11:33 am

Well if it was Roa then Sacchin would have the un-number DAA position. Although what buggs me is on that wiki page it states that Roa had another rencarnation after Tohno SHIKI, unless it meant he took posession of Shiki in Ciel's storyline then I can understand that part. Besides Roa was her vempire parent so it would be the normal way of having her take his seat. As for Nero well strike it up on being in the same area where he was killed I guess. Although I think that may take place sometime after the prologue of Tsukihime 2 since that one DAA dies from the get go. So in the end Sacchin should have the rightful spot of taking over Nero's place I guess.

In any case since she does know Tohno Shiki you would think it would be in her best interest to look out for him even though she is a DAA. Even in the Tsukihime 2 game they should have it where Sacchin somehow manages to give chase after Tohno Shiki because she's still in love with him of course. Besides she coudl be the second girl for that story right after Altrogue of course.
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Re: The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors

Unread postby nanaya_shinya » May 11th, 2009, 1:43 pm

Ah, if only Tsukihime 2 is for real... now that would be nice.

Because of the existence of...
Satsujinki mode Shiki, Dante-wanna-be Enhance, the DAA who works for the chuch Merem Solomon, and Altrouge Brunestud.
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Re: The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors

Unread postby Mazyrian » May 11th, 2009, 10:22 pm

I remeber reading somewhere that the void numbers were DAAs caught by the Church and put in sleep (because they're too powerful to kill conventionaly, or something like that).
As for ORT, it is supposedly the most powerful creature in the Solar System (so yes, it's more powerful than Crimson Moon).
In fuyuki there's info about the DAAs, I guess took from artbook and similar (there's info about Gransurg Balckmore and Merm in Character Material, for example).
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Re: The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors

Unread postby zweiterversuch » May 12th, 2009, 1:11 am

Mazyrian wrote:I remeber reading somewhere that the void numbers were DAAs caught by the Church and put in sleep (because they're too powerful to kill conventionaly, or something like that).
As for ORT, it is supposedly the most powerful creature in the Solar System (so yes, it's more powerful than Crimson Moon).
In fuyuki there's info about the DAAs, I guess took from artbook and similar (there's info about Gransurg Balckmore and Merm in Character Material, for example).



void numbers?
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Re: The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors

Unread postby nanaya_shinya » May 12th, 2009, 12:19 pm

zweiterversuch wrote:void numbers?

empty "seats" in the 27 DAA.
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Re: The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors

Unread postby zweiterversuch » May 12th, 2009, 3:13 pm

nanaya_shinya wrote:
zweiterversuch wrote:void numbers?

empty "seats" in the 27 DAA.



no no ...I got that but...

I am pretty sure the church hasn't cought any of them (well...the boy within the church is on his own free will there so it doesn't count)

I mean...aren't the void numbers:



the dark six?


Just look at it... Six void numbers...dark six...
it matches...
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Re: The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors

Unread postby solopy567 » May 12th, 2009, 7:00 pm

So basically, the DAA that haven't appeared anywhere yet just have names? In the article, it said that Satsujinki killed this forest vampire, but where is that mentioned? Character material?
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Re: The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » May 12th, 2009, 8:19 pm

I think it had something to do with the opening of Tsukihime 2 aside from him killing Nero's replacement for the #10 spot.

Still I think Sacchin should fill in one of the vacant seats since she managed to go to human to vampire within a few days of being bitten. Not only that but I feel she's being underestamated in a way.

As for the Dark Six I though that was the #1 DAA that has been asleep for quite some time now.
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Re: The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors

Unread postby Mazyrian » May 12th, 2009, 8:29 pm

Yeah, I meant the empty seats. I meant that the empty seats were the DAA already caught by the Church; every known DAA is therefore not caught (although IIRC there was one that indeed was sealed). The Dark Six are just one DAA (don't remember the number, but I think it was one of the first 5).
All DAA that exist as now have names and are in the DAA series in KT, and yes, most of them don't have much more than that.
The forest (Einnashe, DAA number 7) was killed by Satsushinki in Talk, a brief story in some artbook that happens after Arcuied's route (if True or Good is somewhat ambiguous).

Maybe this thread should have *spoiler* in the title?
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Re: The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » May 12th, 2009, 9:10 pm

Yeah this does feel like an all spoiler thread since this is outside of the three known stories that were done so far. I think some of this was taken frm character material and whatnot, but I kind of wonder where this will lead into though.
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Re: The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors (Possible spoilers)

Unread postby abscess » May 13th, 2009, 9:20 am

Just fixing some of the things Kid_Wolf said, which aren't entirely accurate.

From wikipedia
[...]the forest was thought to be the Reality Marble of the Dead Apostle Einnashe, [...]. The truth however was entirely different: Einnashe, [...], had been killed by Arcueid Brunestud with the aid of Len’s original master a long time ago, but his body had been left lying under a tree. His blood was absorbed by the tree’s roots and as a result, it gained supernatural powers akin to those of a vampire and eventually grew to its present size.


In the side-story “Talk” which seemingly follows Arcueid’s True End in Tsukihime, the forest was successfully destroyed by Satsujinki, [...]
Last edited by abscess on May 13th, 2009, 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors (Possible spoilers)

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » May 13th, 2009, 12:58 pm

Oh right it was in the Talk sidestory. Wait wasn't the Talk sidestory on Plus+Disk, or was it something else entirley?
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Re: The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors (Possible spoilers)

Unread postby abscess » May 13th, 2009, 4:18 pm

I think it was Character Materials. At least that's what typemoon.wikia.com says.
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Re: The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors (Possible spoilers)

Unread postby zweiterversuch » May 13th, 2009, 4:45 pm

abscess wrote:I think it was Character Materials. At least that's what typemoon.wikia.com says.



Yeah... it must be in character material...

I read Talk and there was nothing about Satsujunkie ( he he... Satsujinki) killing that apostle in there. Just ciel, that child from the church, the vmpire forest, some female mage being sent back by satsujunkie.
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Re: The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors (Possible spoilers)

Unread postby Mazyrian » May 13th, 2009, 10:15 pm

I think Talk was in Blue Book; in Character Material was Prelude. And it was Satsujinki who killed Einnashe (and took the fruit), while Merm and Ciel were fighting the it somewhere else in the forest.
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Re: The 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors (Possible spoilers)

Unread postby Cruor » May 17th, 2009, 3:43 am

I pretty much put everything there some with more or less details and in my own words read whatever ones you like >_> some details I forgot so this is not all. Ah yea, order makes no sense at all so don't think it's 1-27 all numerical order. By the way sorry for this absurdly long post. What is with the coding it won't let me put a spoiler inside a spoiler that woulda helped making this a bit smaller. Oh yea the things that are said to be as strong as an Apostle are really only strong as a regular Dead Apostle probably not another Ancestor.
ORT
not a Dead Apostle. Was said by Nasu to be the strongest being in the (current) universe by just brute force alone. Whenever he moves he makes the world around him go into the properties of Mercury (this quite possibly means no magi can use Thaumaturgy/sorcery there).

TATARI
and insane Apostle not even really a Vampire anymore just drinks blood really for the fun of it. Is currently a phenomenon therefore cannot be killed. His vampire name is Wallachia while the phenomenon name is TATARI. Reality Marble name is called Night on the Blood Liar.

Roa, The Serpent of Akasha
his original self was probably the strongest magus of his time became an Apostle after he tricked Arcueid into sucking his blood while she was having a 'blood thirst' drive. After becoming an Apostle he started doing various things causing chaos and eventually Altrouge and her team to take him out there he defeated Altrouge but failed to kill her. Eventually killed by Arcueid though it's unknown how she exactly did it. Has a Reality Marble called Overload it applies a spell called 'Square' on all his spells (In Fate/zero Kiritsugu uses a spell called 'Quadruple' which could be interpreted as Square during the last fight against Kotomine to keep up with his speed. So theoretically it should be something like this).

Nrvnqsr Chaos
chaos, an Apostle with a innately active Reality Marble that you must kill 666 beats' lives to kill him. When one beast dies it goes back to the primordial chaos within him to be born into a new beast that comes out. Originally a mage (I think), and a friend of Roa's (I'm not sure if it stretches to his original life though). Reality Marble name is Lair of the Beast King.

Blackmore, The Lord of the Blackwing
has a Reality Marble that only works on dead beings. A canopy of death wings covering the sky; a "world of death" of absolute darkness. Transmogrified his appearance with thaumaturgy (sorcery) into a bird after becoming a Vampire saying it was the most 'fitting' appearance for a servant' during his lifetime he was a magus who simply had a fascination with birds (which are/were often worshiped as psychopomps). He became a Vampire after being bitten by the Crimson Moon of Brunestud and he was called the most loyal of his followers.

Merm, Demon Summoner
an Apostle that is a World Terminal (might be a True Demon or Demon Master) he summons the Four Great Demon Beasts which three can rival the strength of an Apostle. They take the form of his body parts out of battle his legs listen to his every command as they pretty much can't think for themselves the arms one only listen to his first command and ignore all others and one is useless in a fight. One Leg is only beastly good at single combat the other Leg is good at fighting multi-man army (Servant terms an Anti-Army demon). Originally a boy who was worshiped as a town God where they cut off his arms and legs and used his creating abilities to do stuff until the Crimson Moon and challenged everyone to a game where if they could create something stronger than him they would get something (I forgot what) and if they didn't I think it was let the kid go but again I forgot. Crimson Moon won he was loyal but he mixes personal admiration into it.

Fina-Blood Svelten
a knight under Altrouge he is kind of a pedophile for boys. He is absurdly strong though; each of the body guards Altrouge has Merm commented to just defeat one he would have to go along with 'em. Apparently is a Captain of a Pirate Ship. Unknown origin. Has a Reality Marble called 'Parade' this Reality Marble was responsible for the fall of Van Fem's 5th Castle, Motley. Each of Van-Fems castle also has the strength of an Apostle.

Rizo-Wal Strout, Dark Knight
another body guard of Altrouge has immortality by a time curse (not like Ciel's but similar). Again like Fina-Blood is defeatable by Merm but only by going down with him. Owns a Demonic Sword called 'True Demon Neardark' or something (I'm not sure of spelling) the Demonic Sword is likely Fate kind not the Demonic Swords that appeared in Notes.

Altrouge, Black Princess of the Dead Apostles
said to have beaten Arcueid while she was at full power and cut off her hair (unknown circumstances) but lost to Roa (who was a Vampire at the time). Therefore it's hard to say 'who is stronger Altrouge or Arcueid?'. She is half True Ancestor and half Dead Apostle. Can use Marble Phantasm and can call The Millennium Castle. Can also call the Red Moon. In a non-combative form she looks like a fourteen year old girl though she has a second form.

Primate Murder, The White Beast of Gaia
not a Dead Apostle but a beast sent from Gaia to slaughter any human in can find. Absurdly strong and probably as strong as Arc. Currently acting as a hound of Altrouge.

Stanrobe Calhin, the Lord of Predation
an unkillable ghost can not be attacked nor can it be fought against by any means it just attacks you. Can't even really be called an Apostle. Also has quite a bit of destructive power~.

Einnashe
a forest. Originally a Dead Apostle that went by the name of Einnashe. Is thought to be simply a Reality Marble that was created by Einnashe who supposedly was a magus with the ability to keep a Reality Marble out as long as it does. Original Einnashe was killed by Arcueid and the original master of Len who I think was sending delusions to him in his mind. His blood was sucked in by the roots of the tree and became an Apostle. The tree attacks every fifty years where they meet a coordinated joint attack of the Church and Mage's Association.

Van Fem, Puppet Master
a sorcerer and an Apostle that enjoys humans. He is liked by Merm cause he is such an oddball. Also neglects much Vampire duties because of his life. He owns a casino. He has five super Golems each as strong as an Ancestor. He earned the Title of 'Puppet Master' (Touko also holds this title). Unlike Merm he can easily coordinate his Golems to attack.

Sumire
a Vampire that conquered water. But now rarely leaves it. Also a drunkard (how she drinks in water is beyond me :roll: though I doubt she is always in the water she supposed to own a castle) only one among the Apostles to use Marble Phantasm besides Altrouge.

Rita Rozay-en, False Prohet
think Elizabeth Báthory she has a blood bath every night. She is arrogant and like artistry. She probably also has some crazy ability like all the other Ancestors but hasn't been mentioned yet. A false prophet she tells an Ancestor if they will die to have a successor ready for them. Basically, she can tell the future so probably has some kind of Mystic eyes like Seo, Shizune, or Kuramitsu but it isn't like their analyzation but a true blue prediction.

Trhvmn Ortenrosse, The Lord of the White Wing (Gematria again?)
several thousand year old Vampire (even older than Gilgamesh) one of Crimson Moon's first followers. VERY skilled in Sorcery. Called the 'King' of the Apostles. Very old fashioned. He proposed the hunt for the True Ancestors. Ordered Nrvnqsr to hunt for Arc in Japan.

Enhance, Knight of Vengence
looks like Dante of Devil May Cry. Owns a shotgun (I think again forgot) Holy Scripture and a Demonic Sword. He is strong enough to tear apart a castle while not even meaning too. Once hid inside of a horses stomach to get inside of a castle undetected. Known as The Knight of Vengence. He is an Apostle that indiscriminately kills any Apostle. He has no faction in the Ancestors. Weaker than most Ancestors but makes it up with his 'vengeance' (I couldn't think of a better word :P).

El Nahat
unbeatable in a one on one fight as once it dies it's literally a guaranteed suicide win. Currently is captured by the Burial Agency where they plan too use him against another Apostle. I think he is only a stomach now but I forgot >_>.

Alcatraz
guy with an impossibly large labyrinth (I seriously don't even wanna know how large it is and how it is hidden) and is stuck in it. He went in there to hide a Holy Scripture.

Crimson Moon of Brunestud
the base of a True Ancestor. Not as strong as all the other Types (Each Type has the ability to destroy all of man kind and the planet itself easily but the Crimson Moon can only do that by launching the Moon at the planet so unless he can control all of Saturn's SIXTY Moons will I ever say he is one of the top of the Aristoles also another fact that he is inferior to other Aristoles both Type-Venus and Type-Mercury can change the area into there respective planets if they want but he can't). Not a Vampire. Kills Shiki in a dream that replicates his/her personality by slicing him into eighteen pieces.

Zelretch, Wizard Marshel
strongest mage today(?). He was able to defeated the Crimson Moon by surprise attacking him (he jumped him) cause 'he didn't like the guy' was able to stop the Moon from falling and put it back with pure Magic.

The Dark Six
completely unknown besides that he/she's regenerating and he/she needs help to do it.
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