Archer or Nanaya (Spoilers)

Chat that doesn't belong in any other TYPE-MOON catagory

Moderator: Staffers

GARcher or the shiKILLER

Archer
29
39%
Nanaya
45
61%
 
Total votes : 74

Unread postby Xanathos » January 12th, 2009, 2:13 pm

Archer vs Nanaya

"How do you like your brain cooked shiki?"
"Scrambled!"

LOL
Xanathos
Crack Addic!
 
Posts: 201
Joined: December 18th, 2008, 2:49 pm

Unread postby that one guy » January 12th, 2009, 4:27 pm

More like

"How do you like your brain cooked Shiki?"
"..."(Amateur, if you have time to talk you should be using it to kill)
User avatar
that one guy
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 481
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 11:11 pm
Location: How should I know?

Unread postby Xanathos » January 12th, 2009, 5:37 pm

that one guy wrote:More like

"How do you like your brain cooked Shiki?"
"..."(Amateur, if you have time to talk you should be using it to kill)


It's called multitasking. Archer has been summoned countless times so he probably has mastered it. Multitasking that is.
Xanathos
Crack Addic!
 
Posts: 201
Joined: December 18th, 2008, 2:49 pm

Unread postby that one guy » January 12th, 2009, 7:44 pm

The () was Shikis thoughts.
User avatar
that one guy
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 481
Joined: August 17th, 2008, 11:11 pm
Location: How should I know?

Unread postby wyldfire » January 20th, 2009, 1:27 pm

i vote for archer...but if it's satsujinki instead on nanaya then my vote goes to him...
User avatar
wyldfire
Addict
 
Posts: 68
Joined: October 18th, 2008, 1:56 am

Unread postby Vhailor » January 21st, 2009, 5:47 pm

Archer got mine. Nanaya is just a psycho freak to me and a very plain caracter. Not enough to make me interested. At the contrary, i found Archer very interesting with a complex caracter construction. He embodies to me the notion of heroes and still, remains strongly human.

Concerning the Eye of Death, i m certain they are useless against servants (in the case of Tohno Shiki). I read somewhere, maybe Wiki moon or Fuyuki parameter, that those eyes are a connection to Gaia that allow his user to percieve the death of the thing that composed the world under the rules set by this entity. Just like an admin in a game's server, and by percing a dot, make something more like Life=0 than killing it. Or servants are not alive and seems to be intruders to Gaia who should not be here like hackers, that's why they need a master and not only for the prana. So no dots. Well, that s my understanding of the thing.
Vhailor
Addict
 
Posts: 79
Joined: November 11th, 2008, 3:08 pm

Unread postby xthr » January 22nd, 2009, 12:02 am

If his eyes can see lines on Arc, I'm pretty sure they can see lines on servants as well. They are pretty much the same concept, except arc is several times stronger.
xthr
Crack Addic!
 
Posts: 215
Joined: November 9th, 2008, 8:53 am

Unread postby Kikuchi » January 22nd, 2009, 12:39 am

xthr wrote:If his eyes can see lines on Arc, I'm pretty sure they can see lines on servants as well. They are pretty much the same concept, except arc is several times stronger.
I'm sure he can't. He can only see Arc's lines in the day. Moreover, Arc is part of the world. Her concept is by far different from Servants'.

FUYUKI wrote:Eyes of Instant Death

直死の魔眼 - Chokushi no Magan
What Shiki obtained; eyes that see the death of things. Represented by black lines and dots. Lines are those lines where it is easy for that substance to break while dots are death themselves. Slice a line and that part will die even if the main body survives and won't move. Strike a dot and that solid object will cease to function completely. Lines will be seen even if one doesn't think about them, but to see the dots, the source of the lines, this requires extreme mental concentration. While it's said to be able to see death as a defined form, it's not death itself but the lifespan of the substance. To be more precise, it's the existential boundary that had been predetermined at the moment of that object's origin (on the other hand, other than Roa's soul, so far he's generally killed objects that have actual physical substance, real bodies and what not - not that he can't, but it'll take some time and adjustment and a migraine). Poke out a dot and you end it's reason/conditions for existing in this world. For example, the soul itself is said to be the one indestructible substance in the world but is only allowed a limited time of existence based on the body it was developed in; this is its time limit. The soul is not destroyed; the predetermined time limit is put to into effect. When that time limit is up, the soul returns to Akasha, dispersed, and then recycled. Therefore, killing phenomena is not possible; everything in our plain of existence can be destroyed or has a time limit. Phenomena come from above - Akasha - directly and take form as occurrences. Current incarnation may be destroyed but the phenomena will keep occurring under certain conditions. Further note that Shiki didn't see dots on said phenomena.

As said again and again and again. It's not so much the existence or the record. It's the predetermined life span, as in what binds the object to the relevant plane of existence, in other words, the time limit, is seen.

And as said in the game, lines cannot be seen on those things that can't be killed (broken) in the present era. The base power of a human user of these eyes work in relation to the limits of the humans of that era. And obviously, as an extension of that, the base power an Earthling user, be it person or object, of these eyes is going to work in relation to how the system of Earth works. Be it rock, stone, salamander, or concept, as long as it was born in this world, there's going to be something fundamentally similar with hairy apes.
Servants are not part of the World. They are embodiments of the Third Magic, considered heresy and violation to the nature of the World. Hence, the World moves to crush them and Prana is required to bind them to present era.

If Arc is with nature (the World), then Servants are against nature. It's as simple as that. Also, they are more of phenomena rather than actual bodies. Rin said that somewhere in Fate, iirc.
Kikuchi
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 253
Joined: January 7th, 2009, 2:34 pm

Unread postby xthr » January 22nd, 2009, 1:31 am

But then couldn't it be said that servants must have a link to the world in order to exist? Maybe his eyes can't kill the concept of servants, but if there is something binding them to the world, to the akashic record, he can sever that pretty simply, and in effect stop the servants
xthr
Crack Addic!
 
Posts: 215
Joined: November 9th, 2008, 8:53 am

Unread postby Kikuchi » January 22nd, 2009, 1:39 am

xthr wrote:But then couldn't it be said that servants must have a link to the world in order to exist? Maybe his eyes can't kill the concept of servants, but if there is something binding them to the world, to the akashic record, he can sever that pretty simply, and in effect stop the servants
That means killing the Master, as Masters are what that bound Servants to this world. Killing the bond is impossible, since magic doesn't have lifespan (by itself). Magic continues to exist as long as the caster is able to keep it up. To sever a magical contract, one must do it with magic (aka Rule Breaker).
Kikuchi
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 253
Joined: January 7th, 2009, 2:34 pm

Unread postby Seth » January 22nd, 2009, 11:18 pm

Nanaya can own Archer anytime. Truly if Emiya is a servant he would have an advantage, but if they fought while Archer was still alive Nanaya will kill him for sure.
Seth
Totally hardly posted
 
Posts: 4
Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 3:31 am

Unread postby wyldfire » January 23rd, 2009, 3:45 am

@seth : for some reason i find ur logic confusing... :?

u mean to say u like nanaya more than archer since nanaya can kill archer...now let's consider a hypothetical scenario...say i'm comparing between a dinosaur and u and ask u who do u like more???the dinosaur or urself...by ur logic u should like the dinosaur more since it can kill u...isn't that ironical??? :P :lol:

that was a joke...sorry dude, couldn't resist...that thought made me go ROFLMAO for some reason... :lol:
User avatar
wyldfire
Addict
 
Posts: 68
Joined: October 18th, 2008, 1:56 am

Unread postby gunwarrior » January 23rd, 2009, 5:18 am

Kikuchi wrote:
xthr wrote:But then couldn't it be said that servants must have a link to the world in order to exist? Maybe his eyes can't kill the concept of servants, but if there is something binding them to the world, to the akashic record, he can sever that pretty simply, and in effect stop the servants
That means killing the Master, as Masters are what that bound Servants to this world. Killing the bond is impossible, since magic doesn't have lifespan (by itself). Magic continues to exist as long as the caster is able to keep it up. To sever a magical contract, one must do it with magic (aka Rule Breaker).


So then what does magic do when its unable to continue? If it doesn't somehow continue to exist (not as prana, but as the magic itself), then it ended right? If it has ended, then that means that it has an end, and by that logic it should be able to be destroyed by the MEoDP. Right?
gunwarrior
Addict
 
Posts: 62
Joined: August 15th, 2008, 9:29 am

Unread postby Ciel » January 23rd, 2009, 5:31 am

gunwarrior wrote:
Kikuchi wrote:
xthr wrote:But then couldn't it be said that servants must have a link to the world in order to exist? Maybe his eyes can't kill the concept of servants, but if there is something binding them to the world, to the akashic record, he can sever that pretty simply, and in effect stop the servants
That means killing the Master, as Masters are what that bound Servants to this world. Killing the bond is impossible, since magic doesn't have lifespan (by itself). Magic continues to exist as long as the caster is able to keep it up. To sever a magical contract, one must do it with magic (aka Rule Breaker).


So then what does magic do when its unable to continue? If it doesn't somehow continue to exist (not as prana, but as the magic itself), then it ended right? If it has ended, then that means that it has an end, and by that logic it should be able to be destroyed by the MEoDP. Right?


by ryogi shiki maybe. tohno/nanaya can't
kill abstract concepts such as power or magic like ryogi can.
User avatar
Ciel
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 454
Joined: March 11th, 2004, 6:44 am

Unread postby Shourai » January 23rd, 2009, 5:49 am

Ciel wrote:
gunwarrior wrote:
Kikuchi wrote:[quote="xthr"]But then couldn't it be said that servants must have a link to the world in order to exist? Maybe his eyes can't kill the concept of servants, but if there is something binding them to the world, to the akashic record, he can sever that pretty simply, and in effect stop the servants
That means killing the Master, as Masters are what that bound Servants to this world. Killing the bond is impossible, since magic doesn't have lifespan (by itself). Magic continues to exist as long as the caster is able to keep it up. To sever a magical contract, one must do it with magic (aka Rule Breaker).


So then what does magic do when its unable to continue? If it doesn't somehow continue to exist (not as prana, but as the magic itself), then it ended right? If it has ended, then that means that it has an end, and by that logic it should be able to be destroyed by the MEoDP. Right?


by ryogi shiki maybe. tohno/nanaya can't
kill abstract concepts such as power or magic like ryogi can.
[/quote]Exactly.
Archer will just laugh when Tohno / Nanaya tries to knife him and kick the latter's ass like he did Kuzuki's in the Church basement. (Kuzuki's punch hit Archer full in the face but Archer didn't even flinch. Since Nayaya / Tohno can't see the death of Servants, Nanatsu Yoru will become useless like a normal knife.)
Shourai
Crack Addic!
 
Posts: 218
Joined: March 15th, 2008, 8:30 am

Unread postby xthr » January 23rd, 2009, 6:43 am

I distinctly remember shiki killing "the world" (or perhaps the bond from arc to the world) in ciel's arc in order to stop arc's power. I don't see why he can't do that to a servant as well. No matter if a servant is a product of heaven's feel, it still comes from the thrones of heroes which is a part of the world, making them something he can kill, or at least sever their contract of existence from.
xthr
Crack Addic!
 
Posts: 215
Joined: November 9th, 2008, 8:53 am

Unread postby nanaya_shinya » January 23rd, 2009, 7:11 am

GARcher is an Heroic Spirit with tracing, projection, and a reality marble in his arsenal even when he was still human while Shiki only has what? MEoDP and the most basic of techniques from the Nanaya movelist. XD

How about we even up the playing field... let's say:
GARcher as Shirou in his prime (while human) vs ShiKILLER as.... ShiKILLER

or

GARcher as Heroic Spirit Emiya vs ShiKILLER as Heroic Spirit/Counter Guardian (he's supposed to be protecting Arc against DAA's, what if he dies by natural causes considering his state of health and made a contract with The World like GARcher/Shirou did to continue protecting Arc)


anyone?
!すでのな
User avatar
nanaya_shinya
OMEGA DESU!
 
Posts: 1177
Joined: July 25th, 2008, 11:46 am
Location: Ahnenerbe Cafe, Beast's Lair branch, lurking the KanColle threads.

Unread postby kaerstan01 » January 23rd, 2009, 7:43 am

nanaya_shinya wrote:GARcher is an Heroic Spirit with tracing, projection, and a reality marble in his arsenal even when he was still human while Shiki only has what? MEoDP and the most basic of techniques from the Nanaya movelist. XD

How about we even up the playing field... let's say:
GARcher as Shirou in his prime (while human) vs ShiKILLER as.... ShiKILLER

or

GARcher as Heroic Spirit Emiya vs ShiKILLER as Heroic Spirit/Counter Guardian (he's supposed to be protecting Arc against DAA's, what if he dies by natural causes considering his state of health and made a contract with The World like GARcher/Shirou did to continue protecting Arc)


anyone?

assuming that he is already Satsujinki, then, he'd sweep the floor with archer lol, he killed a DAA during a night of a freakin RED MOON ( a night of a redmoon is when they reach the height of their strength) , he even defeated forte, one of the best battle mages of the association w/o breaking a sweat or let alone injuring her (or is it only that forte is a girl lol). what more if he turned servant lol

and he'd go "Oh, isn't it your body's fault in the first place? If you wanted to compete with me, you'd need an extra arm or two" on archer

archer: traces another arm or two
shikiller: pfft... wtf

having no lines doesn't mean that your "uncuttable" (shirou sliced darksaber w/ his K&B in HF route). and archer is just an average servant, *cough cough cough powerlevel wise *cough cough cough

and WTF! how'd this became a powerlevel vs crap thread again? :shock:
OMGz teh geek!!! GAL will yah? ;p
User avatar
kaerstan01
Addict
 
Posts: 106
Joined: August 13th, 2008, 4:10 pm
Location: Philippines

Unread postby Shourai » January 23rd, 2009, 8:45 am

xthr wrote:I distinctly remember shiki killing "the world" (or perhaps the bond from arc to the world) in ciel's arc in order to stop arc's power. I don't see why he can't do that to a servant as well. No matter if a servant is a product of heaven's feel, it still comes from the thrones of heroes which is a part of the world, making them something he can kill, or at least sever their contract of existence from.
Wtf? Akasha isn't part of the world. It's the "root". The "origin" of all existence. The World is just a small part of it.

Only Ryougi Shiki's eyes work in relation to the system of Akasha, the origin. So that makes Ryougi Shiki may be able to see lines on Servants.

kaerstan01 wrote:
assuming that he is already Satsujinki, then, he'd sweep the floor with archer lol, he killed a DAA during a night of a freakin RED MOON ( a night of a redmoon is when they reach the height of their strength) , he even defeated forte, one of the best battle mages of the association w/o breaking a sweat or let alone injuring her (or is it only that forte is a girl lol). what more if he turned servant lol

and he'd go "Oh, isn't it your body's fault in the first place? If you wanted to compete with me, you'd need an extra arm or two" on archer

archer: traces another arm or two
shikiller: pfft... wtf

having no lines doesn't mean that your "uncuttable" (shirou sliced darksaber w/ his K&B in HF route). and archer is just an average servant, *cough cough cough powerlevel wise *cough cough cough
So what? A DAA is still a natural being. A Servant is not. They are violation of the World by Third Magic. Those eyes work in relation to how the system of Earth works. Servants are violations of the Earth system.

And holy cr*p, did you realize that Shirou used Noble Phantasms to slice Black Saber? Sure, they may be rank C, but still Noble Phantasms, one of the few things that can hurt Servants. Nanatsu Yoru is just a normal knife like any others you can find despite being indestructible.

The situation would instead turn like this :

Shiki : *Moves with high speed, and tries to knife Archer*
Archer : *Stand there idly*
Shiki : *Perform his trademark 17 slash*

30 seconds later...

Archer : *with a bored voice* Your attempts are laughable. *throws Kansho*

Kansho hit Shiki on the forehead just like it did Gil.

and WTF! how'd this became a powerlevel vs crap thread again? :shock:
That is bound to happen when you compare two men.
Last edited by Shourai on January 23rd, 2009, 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Shourai
Crack Addic!
 
Posts: 218
Joined: March 15th, 2008, 8:30 am

Unread postby nanaya_shinya » January 23rd, 2009, 8:50 am

Then what if Shiki got his hands on a conceptual weapon or a noble phantasm that is yet to be owned by a person, like Bazette's fragarach?
!すでのな
User avatar
nanaya_shinya
OMEGA DESU!
 
Posts: 1177
Joined: July 25th, 2008, 11:46 am
Location: Ahnenerbe Cafe, Beast's Lair branch, lurking the KanColle threads.

PreviousNext

Return to General TYPE-MOON Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron