If there's a hero Emiya can there be a hero Tohno? -SPOILERS

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If there's a hero Emiya can there be a hero Tohno? -SPOILERS

Unread postby Unreal Arch Type » November 27th, 2008, 1:08 am

Well in all techinicality Shiki is a hero even if people don't recognize him for it. I was actually just wondering this and would like some input from you guys. I would think however that there will be or should be a Heroic Spirit Tohno.
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Unread postby xthr » November 27th, 2008, 6:20 am

Ehh I'm not sure I think so. A hero is someone widely recognized as a help to humanity and has a compact with the world. Shiki, while helping people by killing dead apostles, doesn't really do so in a publicly recognizable way. Satsujinki supposedly is known as a god of death, but only to vampires, not humanity. He does more stuff at his own pace, unlike shiro who actively tried to be a superhero. Thus I think that Shiki wouldn't become a heroic spirit
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Unread postby nanaya_shinya » November 27th, 2008, 6:26 am

Shiki has a shot on becoming a Counter Guardian though. So he does have a chance (although slim) of becoming a Heroic Spirit.
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Unread postby xthr » November 27th, 2008, 6:30 am

nanaya_shinya wrote:Shiki has a shot on becoming a Counter Guardian though. So he does have a chance (although slim) of becoming a Heroic Spirit.


How so? o_O (am I missing something?)
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Unread postby Mkilbride » November 27th, 2008, 6:35 am

Emiya wasn't famous at all, he was a Counter-Guardian also. Could happen to Shiki, but I doubt he'd give his spirit to the planet. He's no fool like Emiya.
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Unread postby NonExistence » November 27th, 2008, 6:39 am

as for whether or not the possibility exists... of course.
as for whether or not it can actually happen... not a chance.
(reasons listed above)

but if shiki became a counter guardian... that would mean that he is a part of nature... that would mean that he can understand the death of the world... that means that he is one with akasha... that means that he'd be pretty much god... and that'll be pretty sweet. very deadly, but pretty sweet.

but still very deadly!
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » November 27th, 2008, 4:47 pm

Well if they actually do the tennative project Tsukihime 2, then just maybe he might have a better shot of becomming a Heroic Spirit since he could be well know for killing off the DA's and anything else. Although if he does become a Counter-GARdian I think he may be a better choice then Emiya if you ask me. I mean he already has the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception so he can already see the death of all things living or not.
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Unread postby Unreal Arch Type » November 27th, 2008, 10:18 pm

Interesting. So even if Shiki can't be an eirei he can still be a counter guardian. Though I do agree if he ever does become a counter guardian he'd be pretty godlike because has his mystic eyes of death perception but without the limiter of being a human (and an injured one at that). Also even though mystic eyes doesn't take much prana (at least to my knowledge which is pretty noob...) would he still have the problem of the headaches and stuff? I don't think he will because those headaches are basically his body telling him that he shouldn't see death because he's human but if he's a counter guardian I think the limiter on that will be removed too.
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Unread postby gexer64 » November 28th, 2008, 5:13 am

Thing is Shiki can actually get out of his job unlike Emiya. Where as Emiya is forced to kill by the planet, Shiki can just kill the planet (see ciel route), and be done with it. That would probably destroy the counter guardian system as well......

Also one becomes a counter guardian in exchange for power to accomplish something that cannot be accomplished otherwise. So why would Shiki need to do that?


Shiki's eyes ARE NOT MAGECRAFT. They are a psychic ability, a mutation that uses the generally unused portion of the brain to function. Prana is not needed. The headaches are caused by overloading his brain, because the human brain is not supposed to be seeing death.

As for becoming stronger, well Shiki has Kohaku to make him steroids....
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Unread postby eharper256 » November 28th, 2008, 11:15 am

Yeah, the Nanaya's had no magical abilities at all, and their mystic eyes were entirely psychic. Shiki's eyes mutated from a lesser form into the eyes of death when he was killed by SHIKI and restored by Akiha.

Since he's kinda 'anti-magical' if anything, I don't really see him becoming a heroic servant. He'd be WTFPWN powerful if he did anyway...

Lol, I wouldn't take Kohaku's Steroids by choice after seeing the bad ends of Kagetsu Tohya... :twisted:
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Unread postby gexer64 » November 28th, 2008, 2:30 pm

eharper256 wrote:Yeah, the Nanaya's had no magical abilities at all, and their mystic eyes were entirely psychic. Shiki's eyes mutated from a lesser form into the eyes of death when he was killed by SHIKI and restored by Akiha.

Since he's kinda 'anti-magical' if anything, I don't really see him becoming a heroic servant. He'd be WTFPWN powerful if he did anyway...

Lol, I wouldn't take Kohaku's Steroids by choice after seeing the bad ends of Kagetsu Tohya... :twisted:


Of course not. It was a joke. It's kinda hard to do sarcasm on teh interwebz.
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Unread postby kaerstan01 » November 28th, 2008, 6:08 pm

shiki? a hero? hell no!!

he'd gain much more criticism and hatred from those obsessively serious power level fanboys if that would happen :P :P

jk :P

stop making shiki a some kind of an edited character in MUGEN :P

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hey bro get yerself an avatar or somethin!! :P preferably a hot chick :D :P :P
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Unread postby Shirosaki » November 28th, 2008, 11:17 pm

He can't for the reasons NonExistence said in the start, he'd simply be to godly and if he becomes a CG he'll have more control of his power in the way that he won't need to share life or the like, and he can develop his eye's more since he is a CG(more power) ,they don't stop developing even if their already powerful (satsujinki) so he'd be to godly for it to ever exist. That and i don't think the planet would allow such a danger to become a CG in the first plave >.>, most likely if he did become a CG his eye's would be taken etc.
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Unread postby xthr » November 29th, 2008, 12:19 am

more realistically, the world might send counter guardians after him, because he is an aberration that can see death and can kill the world.
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Unread postby gexer64 » November 29th, 2008, 4:52 am

xthr wrote:more realistically, the world might send counter guardians after him, because he is an aberration that can see death and can kill the world.


Actually I was thinking the same thing. Then again the same would be said of goldylocks and the three part sword of death. (EA)


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Unread postby Mkilbride » November 29th, 2008, 8:32 am

Yeah, if Shiki became a CG, he'd basically be undefeatable, and that's why it's to cheap. His eyes are insane, but they come at such a price that using them is very difficult, if he had the POWER boost of being a CG and no strain using his eyes...it'd be like becoming the Grim Reaper, basically, for Shiki.
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Unread postby gexer64 » November 30th, 2008, 1:21 am

I think you guys are overestimating the power boost of a cg. You do realize that most of Archer's power came from training and UBW right?

Also before we make any estimations, you should do a bit of research.

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Unread postby NonExistence » November 30th, 2008, 4:46 am

the fact still remains that shiki will essentially become the death god of GARness.
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Unread postby nanaya_shinya » November 30th, 2008, 10:03 am

gexer64 wrote:I think you guys are overestimating the power boost of a cg. You do realize that most of Archer's power came from training and UBW right?


Shirou could not use his Reality Marble on his own because his mana capacity as a human was not enough. He had to make a contract with Rin to make it possible, or better yet he became a Counter Guardian.
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Unread postby Ausdoerrt » November 30th, 2008, 7:39 pm

Shiki cannot be a hero or a CG cause he wouldn't choose too... And also because the Nature wouldn't let him - he'd be an overpowered cheat-mode character =)) Summon Shiki, kill the Holy Grail war, game over =)))
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