If there's a hero Emiya can there be a hero Tohno? -SPOILERS

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gexer64
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Unread post by gexer64 » November 30th, 2008, 7:53 pm

nanaya_shinya wrote:
gexer64 wrote:I think you guys are overestimating the power boost of a cg. You do realize that most of Archer's power came from training and UBW right?
Shirou could not use his Reality Marble on his own because his mana capacity as a human was not enough. He had to make a contract with Rin to make it possible, or better yet he became a Counter Guardian.
You are talking about in the game. You have to remember that Shirou was a very inexperienced magus. Who's to say that after much becoming more training his supply won't up?
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Unread post by Atvaark » December 5th, 2008, 8:49 pm

shiki as a counter guardian? any fight would go like this: "Le stab" win.

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Unread post by Undream » December 6th, 2008, 2:38 am

Gar-Shiki Servant: Ha, you are so weak I could kill you with a single stab from this knife
Goldie: Yea right, you try that, ill b-
Gar-Shiki Servant: [le stab]
Goldie: [Le gasp]
Gar-Shiki Servant WINS xD

...






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gexer64
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Unread post by gexer64 » December 6th, 2008, 4:55 am

I don't think shiki could ever beat gil. His nps are the original. I don't think he can see death on them. Even so, fighting in a place with no cover is gil's win.

Ask Raitei. Kansho might know as well (I don't know the full scope of Kansho's ability. But from what I have seen, Kansho is quite the knowledgeable person)
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Unread post by abscess » December 6th, 2008, 5:14 am

gexer64 wrote:I don't think shiki could ever beat gil. His nps are the original. I don't think he can see death on them. Even so, fighting in a place with no cover is gil's win.
From what I understand there is no real importance if Gil carries the original NPs or not, they all (except for Ea) come from the Earth, that means they all are "killable" object for Shiki (supposing he is fast enough to see the lines and trace them with a knife). At any rate, he doesn't need to kill the NPs, it's more than enough to kill Gil, and since Gil is so AWESOME (of courese, not as much as Shinji is :P) he most likely would regard Shiki as an excuse of a hero and try to beat him with a stick instead of a real weapon. Sure, if Gil goes all out from the very beginning, in the best of cases Shiki would end up dismembered, but that's a long shot for previous stated reasons.
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.

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Unread post by NonExistence » December 7th, 2008, 9:32 pm

hm... shiki was fast enough to run up walls due to demon hunter heritage BEFORE he becomes a CG... if he became a CG, NO ONE CAN TOUCH HIM. gil's np's may be fast, but fast enough to catch shiki CG version? very unlikely.
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Unread post by spathi » December 9th, 2008, 12:54 pm

can anyone tell me exactly where it is stated that once you become a CG you get a stat boost?
I think I missed it somewhere

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Unread post by Mkilbride » December 9th, 2008, 1:03 pm

Well, it's a given.

I mean, Saber, when attached to Rin, got a stat boost, because Rin was a more powerful Magus than Shirou. So obviously, it means that being summoned as a servant and supplied with mana = stat boost.

Imagine if Lancer had been summoned by Illya, he'd be even more Godlike than he is now.


Not to mention, everything changes when yer a CG. When Saber was alive, if she got her heart stabbed, she died.(If she didn't have Avalon) As a Servant / CG or whatever, she can regen it.

Saber will die if she is killed.

gexer64
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Unread post by gexer64 » December 9th, 2008, 3:43 pm

Mkilbride wrote:Well, it's a given.

I mean, Saber, when attached to Rin, got a stat boost, because Rin was a more powerful Magus than Shirou. So obviously, it means that being summoned as a servant and supplied with mana = stat boost.

Imagine if Lancer had been summoned by Illya, he'd be even more Godlike than he is now.


Not to mention, everything changes when yer a CG. When Saber was alive, if she got her heart stabbed, she died.(If she didn't have Avalon) As a Servant / CG or whatever, she can regen it.

Saber will die if she is killed.
It wasn't a stat boost.

A servant is like an engine. If the engine doesn't have any fuel it's going to lower it's performance to last longer. When saber formed a contract with Rin, she went back to what she should have been.
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Unread post by AvatarofRage » December 10th, 2008, 2:54 am

Mkilbride wrote:Well, it's a given.

I mean, Saber, when attached to Rin, got a stat boost, because Rin was a more powerful Magus than Shirou. So obviously, it means that being summoned as a servant and supplied with mana = stat boost.

Imagine if Lancer had been summoned by Illya, he'd be even more Godlike than he is now.


Not to mention, everything changes when yer a CG. When Saber was alive, if she got her heart stabbed, she died.(If she didn't have Avalon) As a Servant / CG or whatever, she can regen it.

Saber will die if she is killed.

Actually, I'm pretty sure a heart or headshot can (and is the only way) to kill a Servant, since either will destroy their 'core'

gexer64
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Unread post by gexer64 » December 10th, 2008, 4:02 am

AvatarofRage wrote:
Mkilbride wrote:Well, it's a given.

I mean, Saber, when attached to Rin, got a stat boost, because Rin was a more powerful Magus than Shirou. So obviously, it means that being summoned as a servant and supplied with mana = stat boost.

Imagine if Lancer had been summoned by Illya, he'd be even more Godlike than he is now.


Not to mention, everything changes when yer a CG. When Saber was alive, if she got her heart stabbed, she died.(If she didn't have Avalon) As a Servant / CG or whatever, she can regen it.

Saber will die if she is killed.

Actually, I'm pretty sure a heart or headshot can (and is the only way) to kill a Servant, since either will destroy their 'core'
Nope. Prana. If they are damaged beyond repair, they die. (that's why saber disappeared in a bad fate end. Goldylocks and his three bears vault of weaponry did not kill berserker by a "head shot."

The proof is in the pudding. The pudding of his demise.
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Unread post by xthr » December 10th, 2008, 7:13 am

Berserker is kind of special tho. He has to be killed 12 times, so maybe a head shot woulda killed him under normal circumstances?

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Unread post by spathi » December 10th, 2008, 1:10 pm

you don't need to be a servant to die from loosing your head <_<

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Unread post by supremehyren » December 11th, 2008, 1:28 am

CG's definitely get a stat boost. By making a contract with the world, they lose their afterlives in exchange for power/fame/etc, and become CG's after they die. There's a difference between them and Eirei, though- Eirei are removed from the cycle of reincarnation by accomplishing great acts, even if they don't have a contract with the world.

Saber, for instance, didn't make a contract, and became strong on her own. She later made one to try and get the holy grail.


As for CG Shiki... he'd be unstoppable. His eyes would be a noble phantasm(so could hurt servants), he'd have a one-shot kill without any mana use, and could probably kill NP's(if not, then the 'effect' from the NP, i.e. killing Saber's Excaliblast).
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Unread post by abscess » December 11th, 2008, 3:00 am

The problem would be having an excuse for Shiki to ask for the Holy Grail's aid. He isn't into wanting to save everyone, so that's not a viable reason. Perhaps wanting to save his loved one but.... which of all of them? Also, wouldn't his loved one say something like "don't do it for me, think of yourself first"-kind of things? Would he follow that command.... Would the world really want someone capable of killing it at its side? He is, after all, a wild card.
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.

Mkilbride
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Unread post by Mkilbride » December 11th, 2008, 3:02 am

I see Shiki having many wishes. I can think of too many to list personally.
Last edited by Mkilbride on December 11th, 2008, 3:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread post by VoidAvesta » December 11th, 2008, 3:05 am

Mkilbride wrote:I see Shiki having many wishes. I can think of two many to list personally.
Can we hear some of em'?

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Unread post by Mkilbride » December 11th, 2008, 3:10 am

Depending on the routes; just think.

Maybe a wish for Arc's Bloodlust to go away? I mean, she'll still be alive long after he is, perhaps it's a wish he'd like, to make her life easier?

I can't recall if Ciel can still age and whatnot, it's been awhile since I played Tsukihime, but if she can't, he could wish for her to age again(I'm sure she'd like to age normally and die like that)

Perhaps, in Kohaku's end, he can make her forget all her memories of rape, but still remember most everything else(Of course, some doctoring would need to be done to how they met, lol)


I dunno, just some general ideas. I think he'd basically wanna make things easier for the people around him.


Maybe he'd wish for Ahika to have bigger breasts(She'd be so happy, she'd cry) LOL

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Unread post by that one guy » December 11th, 2008, 3:21 am

I don't think A) Shiki was fleshed out enough to really have a wish, and B) With the character development he has, it doesn't really seem like he'd have a wish in any of the routes, especially the good ends.

abscess
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Unread post by abscess » December 11th, 2008, 5:08 am

^ I second that.
► Show Spoiler
Aside from them, I doubt that he would wish of something for him.
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.

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