Ryougi vs Nanaya [Spoilers]

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Unread postby NanatsuYa » November 23rd, 2008, 8:49 am

He killed alot of guards and the head of the Kishima Clan, but he didn't kill Kouma, he was chained down in a room, and from what I could remember, he only poked out one of Kouma's eyes.
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Unread postby NonExistence » November 23rd, 2008, 5:51 pm

wasn't it that kiri nanaya only poked out one of kouma's eyes because he thought that he'd killed kouma already? afterall, you don't expect a person to live after you stab them in the eyes with enough energy to penetrate into the brain.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » November 23rd, 2008, 11:08 pm

Well the thing is when Kouma was a child he didn't do anything wrong at the tme, but Shiki's father knew what would happen if he left him alone though. In any case it was like he knew that he was going to be killed by him one day.

Although Shiki does remember him being the one that killed his mother right before his eyes. So with that of course he would be afraid of him and be one of his worst nightmares. Also, it's understandable that he had to defeat him in Len's story if you ask me.
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Unread postby xthr » November 23rd, 2008, 11:38 pm

Well I think the nanayas were just demon hunters. Since Kishima clan's demon blood peaked, I don't think think Kiri has any reason _not_ to kill him.
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Unread postby Len » November 24th, 2008, 12:01 am

Kid-Wolf wrote:Well the thing is when Kouma was a child he didn't do anything wrong at the tme, but Shiki's father knew what would happen if he left him alone though. In any case it was like he knew that he was going to be killed by him one day.

Although Shiki does remember him being the one that killed his mother right before his eyes. So with that of course he would be afraid of him and be one of his worst nightmares. Also, it's understandable that he had to defeat him in Len's story if you ask me.


not really, it was Kouma who first gave Kiri a certain need to kill. It was his first blood lust. Kiri didn:t really know what would happen if he left Kouma alone, it was just a rush of blood lust at that time which he didn't know why.
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Unread postby NonExistence » November 24th, 2008, 12:30 am

right. the thing with the bloodlust for demons. the precursor to shiki's insane-ness when going near arc.

finally the secrets of the world are revealed to me.
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Unread postby NanatsuYa » November 24th, 2008, 6:45 am

NonExistence wrote:right. the thing with the bloodlust for demons. the precursor to shiki's insane-ness when going near arc.

finally the secrets of the world are revealed to me.


Eh, you didn't know this??? :shock:

Anyway, let's face it, Kiri made a big mistake NOT killing Kouma when he had the chance. But then again, if he HAD killed Kouma there, I'm guessing Tsukihime would never had taken place, and the Nanaya's would still be at the top of the Demon-Hunting organization. Acually, that could've been kinda nice, Shiki learns EVERYTHING Kiri had been teaching him and becomes an unstoppable Nanaya!! :D
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Unread postby NonExistence » November 24th, 2008, 6:47 am

i knew. emphasis on knew. then i promptly forgot again... until i was reminded today.

but if tsukihime didn't happen, then shiki wouldn't get awesome eyes that kill everything!

see, it just goes to show that you can't have it both ways.
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Unread postby NanatsuYa » November 24th, 2008, 6:52 am

NonExistence wrote:i knew. emphasis on knew. then i promptly forgot again... until i was reminded today.

but if tsukihime didn't happen, then shiki wouldn't get awesome eyes that kill everything!

see, it just goes to show that you can't have it both ways.


Hmm... Yeah, that's indeed true, but didn't Shiki already have some type of mystic eyes even before the "accident"??? I think I red that somewhere, didn't think they mentioned what type though :(
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Unread postby NonExistence » November 24th, 2008, 6:54 am

i thought it was that he had the potential to get mystic eyes, due to the "open" nature of his circuitry in his brain.

... but don't quote me on that one.
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Unread postby abscess » November 24th, 2008, 6:59 am

Shiki, just because of being a Nanaya, already had a Jougan (not exactly a mystic eye, but kinda special too). He got the Magan (or mystic eye of whatever) apparently because of his near-death experience, such as R.Shiki got his whatever-eyes because of her coma. Correct me if I made a mistake somewhere.

Also, I think somewhere in Kiri's sidestory is said that Kiri didn't want Shiki to follow his steps and he knew that, by doing that, he was dooming the clan. But he didn't care much because he was thinking of his son and cared for him more than he (Kiri) expected. Since he was the head of the clan no one would try to counter his decision of not wanting his son to be the succesor. Again, correct me if I made a mistake.

[Edit]By the way. How is it that everyone agrees that Tokie had sex with Shiki? I really don't remember any part in KT implying that, only that Shiki showed interest in her sometime in the past and still had some feelings for her, but not that they did anything....
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Unread postby nanaya_shinya » November 24th, 2008, 7:04 am

Tokie never really had sex with Shiki. It was all a lie by Kinoko Nasu himself. Like how he lied about having Sacchin's route in Kagetsu Tohya!


But some people like it if they did, so let them be.
Last edited by nanaya_shinya on November 24th, 2008, 7:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » November 24th, 2008, 7:12 am

It wasn't in Kagtsu Tohya it was kind of a four panel page bit of a simple queston that was asked to Nasu himself I guess. Here's the pannel and I think it was translated like this if I remeber correctly. Spioled because of the pic and translation.

Image
1st Panel:
"Asking question about Tsukihime to Mr. Nasu

2nd Panel:
Q: Well, if I read correctly, Shiki's "first girl" is...
A: It's Toikie

4th Panel:
TOKIE!
I envy you...
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Unread postby NonExistence » November 24th, 2008, 7:14 am

... that looks pretty shifty to me there...

and not to mention not very canon.
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Unread postby abscess » November 24th, 2008, 7:15 am

hmmm..... is the one asking the mushroom Akira?
Anyway, is that canon? the "Shiki nails Tokie" stuff, I mean.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » November 24th, 2008, 7:17 am

Well with that I'm not even sure if that's legitamate proof right there, but that's what I go by since that is Nasu's avitar pic he normally goes by. In any case I see it as a possilbity since we don't see anything of Tokie except in Kagtsu Tohya so Shiki mustof done something to her before the Tsukihime time period. Besides it would make sense on why she teases him in Kagetsu Tohya though.
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Unread postby abscess » November 24th, 2008, 7:25 am

Kid-Wolf wrote:Well with that I'm not even sure if that's legitamate proof right there, but that's what I go by since that is Nasu's avitar pic he normally goes by. In any case I see it as a possilbity since we don't see anything of Tokie except in Kagtsu Tohya so Shiki mustof done something to her before the Tsukihime time period. Besides it would make sense on why she teases him in Kagetsu Tohya though.

Hahahahaha!!! :lol: When you put it like that, it sounds as if Shiki always takes advantage of every girl in front of him he shows interest in. I just got it like Shiki was interested in her and she knew about it. She had some fun teasing him and that's all. Probably she did feel some time later something towards him but didn't do anything. He knew her because she is the daughter of the doctor Shiki goes/went to. Also, according to the "relation chart" (or whatever its name is), Kohaku knows and studied along with her when she (Kohaku) recieved education in medicine from that guy whose name I forgot a long time a go (Tokie's dad).
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » November 24th, 2008, 7:29 am

Ah you mean Sougen who is Tokie's father. Although I think she does like him, but doesn't want to say anything. As for Shiki and Sougen, he(Shiki) thinks that Sougen is nothing more then a quack of a doctor attimes, and tends to know a lot about Nanaya Kiri as well.

It's a good thing I have that updated version of the relationship charact of the entre Nasuverse still. It does come in hady at times like these.
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Unread postby NonExistence » November 24th, 2008, 7:29 am

of course shiki always takes advantage of every girl in front of him he shows interest in. that's how shiki operates. besides, wasn't it tokie who awoke his tohno gland? it would only make sense then.

despite all that, i still doubt the canonity(?) of the statement.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » November 24th, 2008, 7:34 am

Yeah it is hard to belive, but there's no other way then to say that Tokie was actually a Shotacon along with Aoko in the first place. From what I can asume Aoko started it first by giving Shiki his glassess and telling him to use it when necessassary. After some time I think Tokie was taking care of Shiki when he was in the Armia residence at the time. So there is kind of a 8 year gap that something could of happend during that time.
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