Ryougi vs Nanaya [Spoilers]

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Unread post by kaerstan01 » March 22nd, 2009, 4:44 am

pfft.... ok guy, dont kill me :shock:

anyways, suit yourselves kids, like i said, i ain't saying nothing about shiki pawning the other guy, and even though i am a shiki fanboy, i always kept my logic intact when making an argument 8)

anyone may pawn him as long as they like lol

ps
stop being so serious guys, or you wont get a life :lol: :lol: :lol:

peace :wink:
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Unread post by Kid-Wolf » March 22nd, 2009, 4:51 am

In the end I have to sate this you guys.

It all boils down to where and how they fight. It means where they are, how they ment, are they currently in a fighting mood, and will there be no interuptions in thier match. Not only that but also what weapon will Ryougi use, here knfie or her sword?

I mean the conditions have to be perfect for Ryougi to be taken out by Tonho Shiki, and vice versa.
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Unread post by Kikuchi » March 22nd, 2009, 4:56 am

anyways, suit yourselves kids, like i said, i ain't saying nothing about shiki pawning the other guy, and even though i am a shiki fanboy, i always kept my logic intact when making an argument
Oh? But you claimed that Tohno / Nanaya beat a superior enemy than the ones which Ryougi beat. That, with your argument to make Ryougi seem inferior leads to the conclusion that you claim Nanaya > Ryougi. :P

I merely stated that no matter how logical your argument may sound (I personally don't think it is, lol), the canon sources stated that Ryougi > Tohno / Nanaya. :P

@Kid-Wolf: yeah, but I also have to point out that most of the time, Ryougi is depicted as stronger than Tohno. :lol:
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Unread post by Kid-Wolf » March 22nd, 2009, 5:02 am

Kikuchi wrote:@Kid-Wolf: yeah, but I also have to point out that most of the time, Ryougi is depicted as stronger than Tohno. :lol:
Although all that's needed is one slight factor that can turn the tables into Tohno Shiki's favor as well. Even though Ryougi is technically God-like with her Eyes, Shiki is pretty good with his speed. So if the conditions are normal then of course Ryougi won't have any trouble at all. Although like I sated before it takens one mistep, or a slight miscalcuation on Ryougi's part to turn the tables for Tohno Shiki.
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Unread post by Kikuchi » March 22nd, 2009, 5:21 am

Kid-Wolf wrote:Although all that's needed is one slight factor that can turn the tables into Tohno Shiki's favor as well. Even though Ryougi is technically God-like with her Eyes, Shiki is pretty good with his speed. So if the conditions are normal then of course Ryougi won't have any trouble at all. Although like I sated before it takens one mistep, or a slight miscalcuation on Ryougi's part to turn the tables for Tohno Shiki.
Well, doesn't the same apply for a Faker to beat a King of Heroes? Plot armor ftw. 8)
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Unread post by shirou12 » March 22nd, 2009, 7:10 am

actually this thread has been created to discuss what will happen if ever they will fight so pls dont use the word "it is already stated in canon. blah blah or this and that" who cares if it is canon or what, nasu can even turn tables even if he wants to you know. There is still no actual fight between nanaya and ryougi showned thats why i dont believe on canon words, it is only assumptions created by the mind of the author itself. and let me clear this

"WE ARE TALKING BETWEEN THE TWO FAMILIES NOT JUST ON TWO SHIKIS.".

so dont start with that kind of argument it makes this thread an illegal power level thread. This is supposed to discuss possibilities and concepts between two families geez. *face palm*

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Unread post by Kikuchi » March 22nd, 2009, 7:35 am

shirou12 wrote:so dont start with that kind of argument it makes this thread an illegal power level thread. This is supposed to discuss possibilities and concepts between two families geez. *face palm*
When you are discussing who is stronger, even organization or something, it's powerlevel, duh. Message exempted this thread from the powerlevel rule. Why do you think he let this kind of discussion continues? He could have locked this thread long ago, you know. :P

No matter what you are going to argue, ultimately the basis of this thread is "which one is stronger?". If you don't grasp that when you're creating the thread... *facepalms*

Oh, and authors don't assume when writing (well, it's their own work, what would they assume for?). We assume. But Nasu doesn't. Nasu is the writer. This is his story, this is his world. Take it or leave it. :P

And you cannot say "Nasu can do this and whatnot" when he actually does the opposite. :P
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Unread post by Kid-Wolf » March 22nd, 2009, 3:52 pm

Kikuchi wrote:Message exempted this thread from the powerlevel rule. Why do you think he let this kind of discussion continues? He could have locked this thread long ago, you know. :P
Even though it was exempted by Message that doesn't mean we can start flaming each other in the process. Besides that would be the other way this thread would be locked down due to a massive flame war, and quite frankly I don't want to see an interesting thread die before its time.

Well if you want to talk about the Nanaya family and the Ryougi family that is fine as well. In any case if the Nanaya clan wasn't wiped out they might be considered the second strongest in fightng demons and nonhumans. While of course the Ryougi family might as well be the top tier. The reasons for that is the Nanaya clan is known for it's speed and killing moves, while the Ryougi family are known to create a personality that knows how to fight with a certain technique. Adding the Mysitc Eyes to the families shows how overly powerful they can be if the skills are used properly.
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Unread post by shirou12 » March 25th, 2009, 1:22 pm

^
at last someone did understand

Kikuchi> you didnt get it, i wish you review the thread. *face palms*

kidwolf> hmmm so ryougi family would be the top 1 in fighting demons? hmmm i thought it was nanaya clan who is on the top before they got wiped out? ryougi family has 2 personalities inside them right? or is it possible to create more than 2 personalities?.

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Unread post by Kid-Wolf » March 25th, 2009, 2:55 pm

Well from what I've read at one of the Type-Mooon sites the Ryougi family can acertain up to 4 personality shells. The reason why I say that they are stro nger is because they have a natural tallent t obtain the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception if the conditions are right of course.

As for the Nananya group the seem more like an assassin group that a fighting group. They are more like tip-toe in kill target and tip-toe out. As for Tohno Shiki getting his eyes was a mere fluke since he got it at a younger age then Ryougi, but had little to no control over it. Especially when he isn't wearing his glasses. Although this inadvertantly woke his Nanaya persona during the time of Tsukihime. Although frm what I'm guessing Kohaku may have egged that personality on to come out of hiding though.
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Unread post by zweiterversuch » March 25th, 2009, 3:40 pm

Kid-Wolf wrote:Well from what I've read at one of the Type-Mooon sites the Ryougi family can acertain up to 4 personality shells. The reason why I say that they are stro nger is because they have a natural tallent t obtain the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception if the conditions are right of course.

As for the Nananya group the seem more like an assassin group that a fighting group. They are more like tip-toe in kill target and tip-toe out. As for Tohno Shiki getting his eyes was a mere fluke since he got it at a younger age then Ryougi, but had little to no control over it. Especially when he isn't wearing his glasses. Although this inadvertantly woke his Nanaya persona during the time of Tsukihime. Although frm what I'm guessing Kohaku may have egged that personality on to come out of hiding though.

...

yeah...

I mean to compare Ryougi and nanaya is like comparing Jhonny Rambo and Nr 47 from "hitman"...
they are completely different.

They are the best in their areas and wouldn't be able to beat each other if they were in the enemy's territory.
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Unread post by Kikuchi » March 26th, 2009, 12:38 am

shirou12 wrote:Kikuchi> you didnt get it, i wish you review the thread. *face palms*
Before you ask me to review the thread, what is the purpose of this thread if not for comparison of two sides? When you compare something, the most basic question is "which one is better?". Say otherwise and I suggest you look at the definition of powerlevel discussion. Also, Message didn't say "exempt" for no reason, you know. :P

@zweiterversuch: It's John Rambo and Agent 47. ^^

And no, I'd rather say it's like comparing assassins on both side (cause Ryougi is too lenient to be Rambo, and Tohno is far too aggressive to be 47). Ryougi isn't the type who "fights" like Shirou either.
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Unread post by shirou12 » March 26th, 2009, 1:36 pm

^
*facepalms* ill just ignore your post.

4 personas has different talents ryt? so does that mean that 1st persona is weaker than 2nd? then 4th is the strongest? in terms of status?.

does ryougi are assassin type families or warrior types?

strange i think i seen somewhere that nanaya was on the top.

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Unread post by Kid-Wolf » March 26th, 2009, 3:28 pm

The Ryougi family is considered to be a family of wariors. It's just that Ryougi has had three personalities. One was a female, one was the tomboy, one was the "killer", and one was created to replace the first or second due to her Mysitc Eyes of Death Perception. Although I think that's how it went if I remeber it correctly though.
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Unread post by zweiterversuch » March 26th, 2009, 4:14 pm

Kid-Wolf wrote:The Ryougi family is considered to be a family of wariors. It's just that Ryougi has had three personalities. One was a female, one was the tomboy, one was the "killer", and one was created to replace the first or second due to her Mysitc Eyes of Death Perception. Although I think that's how it went if I remeber it correctly though.
I don't know how many personalities Ryougi has but if I remember correctly :

______ at the beginning_______

the girl
the boy (who is the assasin)

___________ then the accidend___________

the boy dies
the girl creates a fictional second personality (boy personality. She is the same but talks like a guy.)

______________________________later__________

ryougi starts to into the ryougi we know

so she has only three personalities...
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Unread post by Iiyo » March 27th, 2009, 11:30 pm

From what I could tell, Shiki had three personalities from the beginning, and the Ryougi only have two personalities (a male and female personality).

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Shiki's personalities were:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1) The girl. (Shiki's dominant personality.)
2) The boy. The killer.
3) The void. The origin of all creation. (A personality that exists between the female and male personalities and hid its existence from both. The actual third personality we are talking about.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------
After the accident, Shiki's personalities were:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1) The girl. She no longer identifies with her past self or either personality. Instead, she sort of emulates the male personality in order to maintain a semblance of how she used to be. Touko considers this a new, third personality.
2) The boy. The killer. No longer exists
3) The void. The origin of all creation. (This is the personality we talk about when we mention Shiki's third personality.) The movies never mention this personality, but in the original novels, the paradox spiral story is where this side of Shiki is unveiled.

We don't drag Shiki (3) into power level discussions because her explicit powers, iirc, included full knowledge of the Records of Akasha (read: omniscience) and the ability to annihilate all existence and recreate it however she pleases (read: omnipotence). She's more or less god.

When it comes to Shiki's fighting style, I'd say that normally Shiki fights with a knife as an assassin, like nanaya shiki, but her true strength is unleashed when she fights with a sword as a warrior.
Beast's Lair's Creativemasta wrote:The moment she opened her eyes,This was the true form of araya's fear.The Magician cursed his own foolishness...to think that there was actually a clan that inherited this swordsman's Karma to this day.

Araya knew this one fact. For the ancient samurai swordsman, a distance of 3 Kan (Approximately 5 meters) was no different to a distance of zero...for that shiki(W/Katana) a distance of 5 kan ,a distance of 9 meters, she'll be able to close it in just a single footstep.

Nobody knew her true style of battle.he had concluded that ryogi shiki was a user of knives, he couldn't have been wrong...but here lay her true ability.She is actually a Killer who wields Katana as her primary means of offense. The she that stood before him was stronger... Far stronger than she whom he had seen countless times before in her battle.

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Unread post by shirou12 » March 28th, 2009, 5:30 pm

So ryougi mostly a family of warriors wielding katanas as primary weapon. Ryougi's father uses katana while kiri uses a drum stick. So in short ryougi's fighting style is the same with her knife play with an advantage of reach. So if ryougi clashes with nanaya using those weapons, that would be an interesting fight.

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Unread post by zweiterversuch » March 28th, 2009, 11:40 pm

Iiyo wrote:From what I could tell, Shiki had three personalities from the beginning, and the Ryougi only have two personalities (a male and female personality).

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Shiki's personalities were:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1) The girl. (Shiki's dominant personality.)
2) The boy. The killer.
3) The void. The origin of all creation. (A personality that exists between the female and male personalities and hid its existence from both. The actual third personality we are talking about.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------
After the accident, Shiki's personalities were:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1) The girl. She no longer identifies with her past self or either personality. Instead, she sort of emulates the male personality in order to maintain a semblance of how she used to be. Touko considers this a new, third personality.
2) The boy. The killer. No longer exists
3) The void. The origin of all creation. (This is the personality we talk about when we mention Shiki's third personality.) The movies never mention this personality, but in the original novels, the paradox spiral story is where this side of Shiki is unveiled.

We don't drag Shiki (3) into power level discussions because her explicit powers, iirc, included full knowledge of the Records of Akasha (read: omniscience) and the ability to annihilate all existence and recreate it however she pleases (read: omnipotence). She's more or less god.

When it comes to Shiki's fighting style, I'd say that normally Shiki fights with a knife as an assassin, like nanaya shiki, but her true strength is unleashed when she fights with a sword as a warrior.
Beast's Lair's Creativemasta wrote:The moment she opened her eyes,This was the true form of araya's fear.The Magician cursed his own foolishness...to think that there was actually a clan that inherited this swordsman's Karma to this day.

Araya knew this one fact. For the ancient samurai swordsman, a distance of 3 Kan (Approximately 5 meters) was no different to a distance of zero...for that shiki(W/Katana) a distance of 5 kan ,a distance of 9 meters, she'll be able to close it in just a single footstep.

Nobody knew her true style of battle.he had concluded that ryogi shiki was a user of knives, he couldn't have been wrong...but here lay her true ability.She is actually a Killer who wields Katana as her primary means of offense. The she that stood before him was stronger... Far stronger than she whom he had seen countless times before in her battle.

WOW buddy! hold your horses!

she can create what ever she pleases?


when has she ever done that?
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Unread post by Kikuchi » March 29th, 2009, 12:37 am

Kill != create... The latter is much harder...
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Unread post by z2000 » March 29th, 2009, 2:52 am

Let me first say, just because you can kill "God" doesn't mean you can kill everything else. See Touma for Toaru Majutsu no Index. He's able to beat a golem the size of a tower. If he is fighting a normal person that is good at street fighting, hes screwed. Just because you have the means and can kill God, doesn't mean you can kill everything else lesser than God. Now...

The fight between the two should be in best performance fighting on neutral ground. This is saying 3rd Persona Ryougi Shiki vs. Real Nanaya Shiki in other words, not Melty Blood or Kagetsu Tohya Nanaya Shiki-fake. We should ignore the rule that Nanaya must be fighting a nonhuman for it to appear. Ryougi will be wielding her katana. Canon only. Meaning, Satsujinki is not a best performance option, until stated otherwise by Nasu. Also, we're going with "We don't really give a fuck on what happens to us after this fight." stance. A win is a win and a loss is a loss.

Ryougi can cover 9 meters in a step. Nanaya can cover 10 meters in two steps?. Nanaya is slower than Ryougi, and has to get closer before he can activate a line. Ryougi has a katana that is 60 cm long. Nanaya has a knife that should be 11 cm long at most. In terms of speed and range, Nanaya loses.

Ryougi and Nanaya can pretty much ignore pain to a certain extent.

Not too sure on this, but Nanaya can see the dots of death, Ryougi can't. Nanaya wins in terms of MEoDP powah.

Strength, I'm ignoring. I'm assuming that they're mostly going after the lines and/or making the opponent incapable of moving so they can line cut/dot stab.

So, I think its 2-1, with Ryougi winning the more important skills.

To note, how many meters Nanaya can cover in x amount of steps was in the Akiha vs. Shiki scene i think. I remember the image of it being shown somewhere around here but i cant find it. If anyone can bother to... >_>;

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