Dead Apostle number XX: Yumizuka Satsuki [Spoilers?]

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Unread postby gexer64 » October 24th, 2008, 3:28 am

AvatarofRage wrote:Although Depletion garden seems kinda weak in execution, I'm fairly sure that, with training, Satsuki would learn a more effective way to utilize it. Considering that Nero learnt a Reality Marble from Roa, it doesn't seem too much of a stretch to imagine there's more to Depletion Garden than Satsuki knows of, as it is it's probably like UBW, since they both create a unique world around the user, but need a secondary skill to properly utilize it, like how UBW has 'all the material for projection', but if Shirou/Emiya didn't know how to do projection then all he could do is pick up the swords already lying around


Reality marbles don't change. But weak? It's death for magi. Let's put it this way, if there is prana is being released, (rin's gandr, projection magic, etc are impossible to use. Not only that, but most prana for magic uses mana (from the surroundings). That kills it.

Also Sacchin should be able to have success as a magus, considering she has a reality marble and skipped directly to a vampire. Not only that but as a vampire her speed, strength, and stamina are all greatly increased.

IIRC her father was from Atlas.
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Unread postby AlinSabel » October 24th, 2008, 3:45 am

Uh... Depletion Garden drains mana, not prana. Tohsaka stores prana inside jewels, and other magi tie prana to objects.
As such, she is still capable of using magecraft, drawing on what little mana is still available to form prana, and then to her jewels.

Not all curses rely on mana either - some rely on Od only. Or so the background implies.
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Unread postby gexer64 » October 24th, 2008, 4:16 am

AlinSabel wrote:Uh... Depletion Garden drains mana, not prana. Tohsaka stores prana inside jewels, and other magi tie prana to objects.
As such, she is still capable of using magecraft, drawing on what little mana is still available to form prana, and then to her jewels.

Not all curses rely on mana either - some rely on Od only. Or so the background implies.


fuyukiwiki wrote: Depletion Garden

Yumizuka Satsuki's Reality Marble. As the name says, rapidly drains the Prana of the space it's expanded in. Similar to Akiha's Ryakudatsu, but Depletion Garden is affecting the world itself (as opposed to the target). Further, the withered Prana doesn't return to the user, Satsuki, but just dissipated. A terrain type effect that could be said to be the natural enemy of beings such as those magi needing Prana for attacks or elementals needing Prana to live. On the other hand, against those organisms that are becoming removed from the world (those humans who don't really use the Prana in the atmosphere) has dramatically no effect.


Yes Rin can release the magic, but what happens once it's in the atmosphere might I ask (since after all this drains prana)? It degrades.

fuyukiwiki wrote:
at least some large-scale (such as Roa's numerology and probably Alba's stuff) spells that work with the environment can't be cast without Mana in the atmosphere already present, even with a large amount of Od. As said before, Od is used as a starter (catalyst) to work with the Mana in the atmosphere into creating a large scale effect. Smaller scale spells such as reinforcement or anything else that doesn't work directly with the environment should be fine. Either that or once Od gets outside of the body, it's prone to fade away quickly by Mana draining effects
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Unread postby AlinSabel » October 24th, 2008, 4:24 am

Hmm... the TYPE MOON wikia says it drains the mana, not the prana. @_@ Cos... prana doesn't exist in the air, it has to be tied to an object.

I'd like to see the page on Fuyuki (whether archive.org or the tatari mirror) which says prana. :P
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Unread postby abscess » October 24th, 2008, 4:47 am

Didn't Typemoon.Wikia said that the only difference between mana and od was their source? IIRC mana and od are both prana, but mana comes from the atmosphere and od from within an individual. Satsuki's Reality Marble disables (or dissipates or whatever) mana, that is, prana in the atmosphere. I think that od, after leaving the body, could be considered mana, since it's just prana that happens to be now in the atmosphere, and if there is prana in the atmosphere it can be affected by the Reaity Marble. Going back to the prana-beam suggested by WingZero (it was WingZero, right?), I suppose that it would be affected rather quickly if it passes the area under the influence of the Reality Marble (I think that was explained in someone's previous post).
Maybe it would be better if it was said that Depletion Garden affected prana in the atmosphere in a determined area.... wasn't it explained like that in Fuyuki...? hm.. can't really remember :P
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Unread postby gexer64 » October 24th, 2008, 5:03 am

AlinSabel wrote:Hmm... the TYPE MOON wikia says it drains the mana, not the prana. @_@ Cos... prana doesn't exist in the air, it has to be tied to an object.

I'd like to see the page on Fuyuki (whether archive.org or the tatari mirror) which says prana. :P


This ain't wikipedia. Citations are not needed.....

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abscess wrote:Maybe it would be better if it was said that Depletion Garden affected prana in the atmosphere in a determined area.... wasn't it explained like that in Fuyuki...? hm.. can't really remember :P


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Unread postby abscess » October 24th, 2008, 4:11 pm

gexer64 wrote:
AlinSabel wrote:Hmm... the TYPE MOON wikia says it drains the mana, not the prana. @_@ Cos... prana doesn't exist in the air, it has to be tied to an object.

I'd like to see the page on Fuyuki (whether archive.org or the tatari mirror) which says prana. :P


This ain't wikipedia. Citations are not needed.....

jk

http://web.archive.org/web/200705171941 ... com/Spells

Ah! I knew I read it somewhere! If I'm right, I think that magic such a strengthen and stuff that stays inside of something can't be affected by depletion garden. If that's the case, Sacchin could really lose against Shirou, unless he tried to use projection in which case his projected weapons would be just a waste of prana/magic stuff.

gexer64 wrote:
abscess wrote:Maybe it would be better if it was said that Depletion Garden affected prana in the atmosphere in a determined area.... wasn't it explained like that in Fuyuki...? hm.. can't really remember :P


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Unread postby NanatsuYa » October 24th, 2008, 5:05 pm

Isn't it sad Sacchin? :cry:

Even if you're powerful enough to be able to use a reality marble, against someone skilled in combat, you'd still be dead meat...
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Unread postby gexer64 » October 24th, 2008, 6:28 pm

NanatsuYa wrote:Isn't it sad Sacchin? :cry:

Even if you're powerful enough to be able to use a reality marble, against someone skilled in combat, you'd still be dead meat...


Pretty much
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » October 25th, 2008, 6:35 am

Although I think she was give those abilities since she is one of Nasu's personal favorite characters if you ask me though.

Never the less
I kind of wonder if Sacchin would of ran in to Zel if she was given the chance. I mean she manages to run into Sion in the MeltyBlood series though... or something like that.
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Unread postby gexer64 » October 25th, 2008, 9:19 pm

Kid-Wolf wrote:Although I think she was give those abilities since she is one of Nasu's personal favorite characters if you ask me though.l]


And yet she has no route.... That's really sad Sacchin.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » October 25th, 2008, 9:31 pm

gexer64 wrote:
Kid-Wolf wrote:Although I think she was give those abilities since she is one of Nasu's personal favorite characters if you ask me though.l]


And yet she has no route.... That's really sad Sacchin.


The reason for that is he wants her all to himself if you know what I mean. It's probablly she was to moe or something that he decided not to let her "play" with Shiki. Meanning
she is pretty much the only virgin in the entire Tsukihime side of things... er adie from Sion Miyako (that is if you don't count their H-doujins that tend to exist mind you).
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Unread postby metal_cocoabo » October 26th, 2008, 12:37 am

Kid-Wolf wrote:The reason for that is he wants her all to himself if you know what I mean. It's probablly she was to moe or something that he decided not to let her "play" with Shiki.


IIRC, there was already an ero scene made for the Sacchin route... I think there's a conspiracy here -- the only reason the Sacchin route was cut-off was so he can keep all the ero pics to himself. Crafty bastard.. :lol:
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Unread postby gexer64 » October 26th, 2008, 1:00 am

metal_cocoabo wrote:
IIRC, there was already an ero scene made for the Sacchin route... I think there's a conspiracy here -- the only reason the Sacchin route was cut-off was so he can keep all the ero pics to himself. Crafty bastard.. :lol:


That's never stopped a determined fan with art skills....
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Unread postby Belzera » October 26th, 2008, 1:16 am

gexer64 wrote:
metal_cocoabo wrote:
IIRC, there was already an ero scene made for the Sacchin route... I think there's a conspiracy here -- the only reason the Sacchin route was cut-off was so he can keep all the ero pics to himself. Crafty bastard.. :lol:


That's never stopped a determined fan with art skills....


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Unread postby AlextheLazy » November 1st, 2008, 8:29 pm

abscess wrote:
gexer64 wrote:
AlinSabel wrote:Hmm... the TYPE MOON wikia says it drains the mana, not the prana. @_@ Cos... prana doesn't exist in the air, it has to be tied to an object.

I'd like to see the page on Fuyuki (whether archive.org or the tatari mirror) which says prana. :P


This ain't wikipedia. Citations are not needed.....

jk

http://web.archive.org/web/200705171941 ... com/Spells

Ah! I knew I read it somewhere! If I'm right, I think that magic such a strengthen and stuff that stays inside of something can't be affected by depletion garden. If that's the case, Sacchin could really lose against Shirou, unless he tried to use projection in which case his projected weapons would be just a waste of prana/magic stuff.


that's true but anything he projects before DG is activated will not be effected
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Unread postby gexer64 » November 1st, 2008, 10:39 pm

AlextheLazy wrote:
abscess wrote:
gexer64 wrote:[quote="AlinSabel"]Hmm... the TYPE MOON wikia says it drains the mana, not the prana. @_@ Cos... prana doesn't exist in the air, it has to be tied to an object.

I'd like to see the page on Fuyuki (whether archive.org or the tatari mirror) which says prana. :P


This ain't wikipedia. Citations are not needed.....

jk

http://web.archive.org/web/200705171941 ... com/Spells

Ah! I knew I read it somewhere! If I'm right, I think that magic such a strengthen and stuff that stays inside of something can't be affected by depletion garden. If that's the case, Sacchin could really lose against Shirou, unless he tried to use projection in which case his projected weapons would be just a waste of prana/magic stuff.


that's true but anything he projects before DG is activated will not be effected[/quote]

Anything projected will be worthless. He cannot use the weapon's ability without mana. You might say "shirou will just hack her to bits" but you are forgetting that she's a vampire that regenerates, and has super strength and speed.

But that's only assuming that image will be maintained without prana. If the image needs prana, or is made of prana, then it is going to be dissolved.
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Unread postby metal_cocoabo » November 4th, 2008, 1:35 am

Anything projected will be worthless. He cannot use the weapon's ability without mana. You might say "shirou will just hack her to bits" but you are forgetting that she's a vampire that regenerates, and has super strength and speed.

But that's only assuming that image will be maintained without prana. If the image needs prana, or is made of prana, then it is going to be dissolved.


What if Shirou projects Zeltrech before she activates DG?
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Unread postby gexer64 » November 4th, 2008, 3:19 am

metal_cocoabo wrote:What if Shirou projects Zeltrech before she activates DG?


fuyukiwiki wrote:Allows for the brief opening of a hole to peek into a neighboring world "with different possibilities." On its own, it doesn't have the ability to amplify Prana at all or create it out of nowhere. Rin draws on energy through the hole using Zelretch and releases it. What's being released from the sword is just pure Prana. Interference with the neighboring world other than what was mentioned is not possible. Not as good as the original, which is said to have stopped the moon-crash. There is also a physical cost associated with continuing to use it like that. From each use, Rin's muscles were being cut (may have been the result of using her circuits to the max). Can be exploded, just like any other jewel.


So there are two scenarios:

1. Shirou wins the battle before dg is expanded.

2. DG is expanded and zelrech cannot operate.
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Unread postby Pata Hikari » November 7th, 2008, 7:13 am

gexer64 wrote:
IIRC her father was from Atlas.


Wait, where did you hear this?
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