T-Moon Complex Discussion

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In a nutshell, who do you think should win?

Poll ended at April 17th, 2008, 12:48 pm

The F/SN Crew
5
31%
The gang from Tsukihime
6
38%
Both
2
13%
Neither
1
6%
Archer [The 'World's Guardian(s)'] / The World
2
13%
 
Total votes : 16

T-Moon Complex Discussion

Unread postby james-skarz » April 7th, 2008, 12:48 pm

Ok. So this discussion is for those who know about the CCC and their doujin works on the Type-Moon franchise (Unfortunately excluding kara no kyoukai *tear*). What they have done is exactly what we have imagined, discussed and argued: Why is Arcueid such a sexy b*tch. Just kidding. No, they actually made several works (5 volumes) that talked about the various 'myths' and popular jokes about Melty Blood, Tsukihime and Fate/Stay Night. Their most recent take on T-M is what i really wanna talk about though - T-Moon Complex X (ongoing). It's the lovable crossover [battle] between the F/SN Nasu-verse and the Tsukihime Nasu-verse, a dreamteam matchup.

So, just to throw it out there I'd like to know:
Firstly, what people think of the doujin (not your opinion or TOO opinionated because I hate shiki screamers and arcueid fappers (I do love Arcueid though ^_^)).
Secondly, if you know where I can get, in either RAW or TRANSLATED format, the next in the series [T-Moon Complex X2],

Otherwise, have fun discussing what occurs in the story ^_^.

P.S Please don't turn this into an all-out argument about powerlevels and etc. It'll get old. FAST. And I want to have a coherent discussion about what kind of controversys/misinterpretations that the doujin deals with, in a sense.

Yeah, peace out ^_^
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Unread postby WingZero » April 7th, 2008, 7:45 pm

In b4 powerlevels.

Tsukihime gets my pick.
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Unread postby Anon of /jp/ » April 7th, 2008, 7:48 pm

Whoever wins a shitstorm will be unavoidable.
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Unread postby nobaka » April 7th, 2008, 11:30 pm

As much as I love Saber, I love Arcueid more.

Do want TM Complex.
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Unread postby Yazan Kiriel » April 9th, 2008, 9:09 am

I'll go with neither, seeing as CCC will likely show that 'Counter attack' from Fate/Stay people to just appease the fans a bit. According to what I can get it seems the world they live in is a fictional reality created by someone, likely Illya which is causing problems for people so likely they'll have some compromise with it all.
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Unread postby yud1 » April 9th, 2008, 4:28 pm

read it a while back... it is quite good manga (more than just decent, as I think about it) with some notes upon though.

I like the art and the concept. quite close to professional work as I see, and (surprisingly) I prefer the art better than the official manga adaptation of Fate. but I guess that's preference call, though. also, nice concept. two factions of two well-known series, and well-drawn sequences of action.

wasn't really good with the storyline though; some adjustments to characters' strengths won't hurt if they do, and I guess many people won't be disappointed to see good-and-balanced battle between characters like Shirou and Shiki or Ciel and Rider... unfortunately they didn't.

while in some part the story concepts are a bit off
(like how Shiki didn't receive headache of using Death Perception at quite extreme extent to Shirou's Unlimited Bladeworks, or how Ciel could match and even have easy win against a Servant)
, it's still enjoyable nonetheless.

I wonder though, if only they could adjust the characters' powers and strengths (not necessarily by strictly leaning to the official statements of TYPE-MOON), they would be able to deliver a good storyline with fair-and-unpredictable battles between the factions. not by too many margins of deviations though; a bit is enough only to deliver a nice flow of storyline. it's a doujinshi, after all.

in such case happened (unfortunately it didn't) I would put it as one of only two of the most gripping doujinshi manga I've ever read. the another one is Evangelion's RE-TAKE, if anybody knows.
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Unread postby james-skarz » April 11th, 2008, 12:01 pm

I do know and yes, Re-Take is one of the greatest doujinshi manga series I've ever read (yes, no plural because they're jap words -_-, and that makes me feel special :D), Re-Take's story, much like TYPE-MOON's owrks, goes beyond what it is coined as, as it's more than 'just' another doujin manga...Ramblings of greatness aside I loved NGE and Re-Take,and I hope the T-Moon Complex X series goes on to be bigger and better...than Hollow Ataraxia (in some ways :P).

Now to spark up a little more discussion, whaddya guys' think Archer is gonna do? The ambiguous cliffhanger on the first makes you wonder whether he was meant to kill Shirou, Rin and Saber and chose not to or if he was just warning them..or about to kill them, or help them. :P Round 1...Discuss! ^_^
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Unread postby DragoonKnight » May 10th, 2008, 5:56 am

Link removed.

^ English translation for volume 2.
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Unread postby Miraploy » June 2nd, 2008, 2:01 am

Does anyone have links to everything?
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Unread postby Shikiller » June 17th, 2008, 7:35 pm

Ahhh, this doujin shows how elitist and easy to piss off most of the type.moon fandom really is. I love it.
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Unread postby Chunky-MonkeyLOL » June 26th, 2008, 6:31 pm

Ugh, realistically, and all blatant fanboyism aside, it is quite easy to see how the FSN team would whipe the floor with the Tsukihime crew. I'm not saying any more since you said not to bring "power levels" into this.
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Unread postby kensain » July 4th, 2008, 9:06 am

Chunky-MonkeyLOL wrote:Ugh, realistically, and all blatant fanboyism aside, it is quite easy to see how the FSN team would whipe the floor with the Tsukihime crew. I'm not saying any more since you said not to bring "power levels" into this.

Huh? Please, explain?
Not a powerlevel argument or anything, but I just don't get the reasoning.
My vote goes to neither, because two plot armor characters fighting never works well. :wink:
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Unread postby Miraploy » July 4th, 2008, 2:43 pm

Chunky-MonkeyLOL wrote:Ugh, realistically, and all blatant fanboyism aside, it is quite easy to see how the FSN team would whipe the floor with the Tsukihime crew. I'm not saying any more since you said not to bring "power levels" into this.


Well not neccessarily. Arc can wipe the floor with any character in Nasuverse and probably take on all the servants in FSN at once (bar Goldy). Ciel is a top level mage, more powerful than any of the masters and can fight defensively against the servants. We're not sure about the extent of Akiha's power and how effective her burn will be on Servants, but if she can own Ciel (see Tsukihime manga), then she can own any of the masters. But if we're talking about averages... Average in the 2 maids power levels and the Tsukihime gang's number comes down dramatically.
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Unread postby kensain » July 5th, 2008, 8:19 am

Average in the 2 maids power levels and the Tsukihime gang's number comes down dramatically.

Not nesesarily. Think of the crazy shit Akiha pulls when kohaku is near her. And either of them can change shiki from a cripple to normal.
Imagine what they could do if they both boosted a healthy Shiki. I'd guess he could take down A LOT of the stronger members.
Oh, and if Tsukihime includes Kouma then they win by defualt for fairly obvious reasons.

BTW: Who is archers crew? The only other people I could imagine being in there is Prime Murder and the Aristoles, as no other countergaurdians have been shown (right?). But if we include the TYPEs than it's just unfair.
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Unread postby AlinSabel » July 5th, 2008, 9:27 am

Ciel and Kouma are both stated to only be able to fight a servant 'defensively'.
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Unread postby Raitei » July 5th, 2008, 9:46 am

on a sidenote, if the f/sn crew includes those from f/z, the favor should be on them. arcueid has 4 servants power, so what? ( I think this is rather off base ) gil weighs the same as 3 servants, and you just need saber with him to take care of her. shirou is equal to shiki. the chance is 50-50. the rest of f/sn crew... should win by default.

moreover, aionian hetairoi = win.
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Unread postby Miraploy » July 5th, 2008, 4:39 pm

AlinSabel wrote:Ciel and Kouma are both stated to only be able to fight a servant 'defensively'.


Not true, Kouma is much stronger than Ciel and can fight well against most Servants.

Anyway Raitei, it's hardly win by default anything. The FSN cast is also much bigger than the Tsukihime cast, it'll hardly be a fair fight if you just throw every character in both games together.

But Arc being 4x stronger than the servants do not mean 4 servants can kill Arc. Her marble phantasm can summon literally anything, she killed Roa just by looking at him. None of the servants really stand a chance 1 on 1 or 10 on 1. The only chance I see of Arc losing is if she lets herself be cordoned into a senario where she's attacked from multiple fronts and prevented from summoning, but come on, Arc's not that stupid. And... if the fight takes place at night, she'll be immortal. Then short of blowing up Japan there's nothing that can be done against her. She took a black barrel replica blast at point blank and walked away unscathed, an excaliblast might not do much better against her, and something like Gael Bolg would be completely useless against an opponent that doesn't care if she loses her heart.

And remember, Akiha is still a huge unknown. Her powers could be totally useless against the third magic, or it can completely destroy the servants. The manga and the VN both describes a huge net AOE that simply owns everything inside. Ciel survived because she was immortal (in the manga), and Shiki survived because he can cut the net. As far as I know no one in FSN has anything on that. But admitely she does have non-existent defense, I'd imagine she'll need some help to actualize her full potential, perhaps Ciel picks her up and flies around with her or some such, or defend her in a barricade of black keys.

Anyway Raitei, we're talking about Complex. There's a limited number of characters on either side, and Berserker is already dead. But if there's a serious battle with everyone going all out it'll be good... at least till Arc shows up and kills everything.
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Unread postby Raitei » July 5th, 2008, 7:17 pm

ah yeah, we're talking about complex, where ciel managed to defeat rider and emerge victorious unscatched, whereas nasu said she can only fight defensively against a very average servant and very average noble phantasm :P
in addition, where shiki managed to kill a servant by dot stabbing :P

don't worry about marble phantasm; gil can wipe it good like how he ripped out rider's aionian hetairoi reality marble with a single enuma elish. :lol:
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Unread postby Miraploy » July 5th, 2008, 9:25 pm

Raitei wrote:ah yeah, we're talking about complex, where ciel managed to defeat rider and emerge victorious unscatched, whereas nasu said she can only fight defensively against a very average servant and very average noble phantasm :P
in addition, where shiki managed to kill a servant by dot stabbing :P

don't worry about marble phantasm; gil can wipe it good like how he ripped out rider's aionian hetairoi reality marble with a single enuma elish. :lol:


lol.

And marble phantasm's not a thing, it's a summoning skill. Remember she summoned 1000 blades from inside Roa's body, there's not much you can do to defend against that.
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Unread postby kensain » July 19th, 2008, 5:15 pm

Raitei wrote:where ciel managed to defeat rider and emerge victorious unscatched

Good point, but it does have the words "Reincarnation Criticism" in it's title.
And of course she was unscathed. Roa-chan-regeneration :D

And how could kouma possibly loose against anything? It just can't happen.

UNLESS Gil has an aristole in his vault, to launch him into orbit (now that I think about it, ORT was around back then...)
And even though it's impossible, the Tsukihime cast technically includes Blue.
But that's frickin unfair.

I also never got the reason why Shiki can't kill a servant. It's died already, so what? The heart's still beating and all.
And besides that, it wasn't actually said that Berserker was killed by the dot. Hell, they didn't even show one.
It's possible he was killed 11 times by being divided into 17 pieces straight afterwards.
While we're on the subject, Arcuied's bitchslap would DEFINITELY have killed him more than once.

Such a pity he's dead now. I was looking forward to him Kouma having a flexing competition, DBZ style.
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