T-Moon Complex Discussion

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In a nutshell, who do you think should win?

Poll ended at April 17th, 2008, 12:48 pm

The F/SN Crew
5
31%
The gang from Tsukihime
6
38%
Both
2
13%
Neither
1
6%
Archer [The 'World's Guardian(s)'] / The World
2
13%
 
Total votes : 16

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » November 27th, 2008, 5:03 pm

Well the 27DAA's are mentioned mostly in Tsukihime, but only two of them actually came out to play in that universe. Althoguh there are supposedly 6 more that involved in that universe, but I think 1 may be, or will be, involved in the Fate side due to the one bit in F/HA if I remeber correctly now.

As for the Types, I would have to assume they would destroy everything no matter which side of the Nasuverse they get involved in. In any case I honestly don't know much about the Angel Notes to make a solid statement about them though.
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Unread postby kaerstan01 » November 28th, 2008, 5:39 pm

maybe the types have some sort of a connection with the true ancestors and the DAA'S and therefore creating some "link" between them and tsukihime

27 DAA + aoko > servants

why?

servants can only fight during the holy grail war while DAA's and my red haired smexy sensei would come at you at ANYTIME and ANYWHERE (yeah, the world is unfair)

and

tsukihime pawns FSN in terms of the mains GARness

even with shirou's and archer's GARness combined

shiki (do i have to explain this?) > > > shirou(even though HF shirou is kinda GAR,still was too shounen for my taste) + "GAR"cher (bad boy but softy in the inside :P and yes,the origin of the word GAR)

*hides :P
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Unread postby spathi » November 28th, 2008, 6:34 pm

Even Nasu said it himself some (or all?) of the DAA can't win against "average" servants
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Unread postby kaerstan01 » November 28th, 2008, 7:03 pm

spathi wrote:Even Nasu said it himself some (or all?) of the DAA can't win against "average" servants

lol? is that a typo or something? :P

iirc, the one that was really stated was something like this :
some of the DAA''s and not all can(yeah, emphasis on can lol) match up with servants... and there are like 27 of them, so lol
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Unread postby zweiterversuch » November 28th, 2008, 7:10 pm

kaerstan01 wrote:
spathi wrote:Even Nasu said it himself some (or all?) of the DAA can't win against "average" servants

lol? is that a typo or something? :P

iirc, the one that was really stated was something like this :
some of the DAA''s and not all can(yeah, emphasis on can lol) match up with servants... and there are like 27 of them, so lol



Satzuki's reality marbel + servant = dead servant.
http://visualnoveldai.com/
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Unread postby Raitei » November 29th, 2008, 1:35 am

kaerstan01 wrote:servants can only fight during the holy grail war while DAA's and my red haired smexy sensei would come at you at ANYTIME and ANYWHERE (yeah, the world is unfair)
wrong. very wrong. living example is right in front of you, wearing a black shirt and pants, wandering about the town since the last war. and that one guy is enough to wipe the entire tsukihime gang for good. (zel-jii not included)

kaerstan01 wrote:tsukihime pawns FSN in terms of the mains GARness

even with shirou's and archer's GARness combined

shiki (do i have to explain this?) > > > shirou(even though HF shirou is kinda GAR,still was too shounen for my taste) + "GAR"cher (bad boy but softy in the inside :P and yes,the origin of the word GAR)

*hides :P
*found and stabbed him*

and there are like 27 of them, so lol
so? there are at least 27 of known servants, of which 14 are clearly identified.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby kaerstan01 » November 29th, 2008, 2:43 am

Raitei wrote:
kaerstan01 wrote:servants can only fight during the holy grail war while DAA's and my red haired smexy sensei would come at you at ANYTIME and ANYWHERE (yeah, the world is unfair)
wrong. very wrong. living example is right in front of you, wearing a black shirt and pants, wandering about the town since the last war. and that one guy is enough to wipe the entire tsukihime gang for good. (zel-jii not included)

kaerstan01 wrote:tsukihime pawns FSN in terms of the mains GARness

even with shirou's and archer's GARness combined

shiki (do i have to explain this?) > > > shirou(even though HF shirou is kinda GAR,still was too shounen for my taste) + "GAR"cher (bad boy but softy in the inside :P and yes,the origin of the word GAR)

*hides :P
*found and stabbed him*

and there are like 27 of them, so lol
so? there are at least 27 of known servants, of which 14 are clearly identified.

lololol

*damn internet giving me the chuckles

and yeah, you can also find 27 people to summon those "at least 27 of known servants" :P

dam servants being oberhax and can destroy a continent with a kaleido stick! :P :P
OMGz teh geek!!! GAL will yah? ;p
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Unread postby Raitei » November 29th, 2008, 2:51 am

kaerstan01 wrote:and yeah, you can also find 27 people to summon those "at least 27 of known servants" :P
oh yeah. each of them has his/her own respective masters, don't you know that? I would suggest stop using sarcasm if you don't know the subject at hand.

http://web.archive.org/web/200707141604 ... n%27s+Feel

27 because from my speculation, the first two wars only used 3 knight classes.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby kaerstan01 » November 29th, 2008, 6:10 am

Raitei wrote:
kaerstan01 wrote:and yeah, you can also find 27 people to summon those "at least 27 of known servants" :P
oh yeah. each of them has his/her own respective masters, don't you know that? I would suggest stop using sarcasm if you don't know the subject at hand.

http://web.archive.org/web/200707141604 ... n%27s+Feel

27 because from my speculation, the first two wars only used 3 knight classes.


duh... you failed to get my point

how would 27 of them summoned from different time lines/era defeat 27 independent DAA''s? :shock:

your too hot in stating the specifics that you tend to overlook the logic :roll: :P

so yeah servants got high power levels that could defeat and wipe the floor out of anyone who's not son goku, happy now?

peace :P lololol
OMGz teh geek!!! GAL will yah? ;p
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Unread postby Raitei » November 29th, 2008, 6:16 am

kaerstan01 wrote:
Raitei wrote:
kaerstan01 wrote:and yeah, you can also find 27 people to summon those "at least 27 of known servants" :P
oh yeah. each of them has his/her own respective masters, don't you know that? I would suggest stop using sarcasm if you don't know the subject at hand.

http://web.archive.org/web/200707141604 ... n%27s+Feel

27 because from my speculation, the first two wars only used 3 knight classes.


duh... you failed to get my point

how would 27 of them summoned from different time lines/era defeat 27 independent DAA''s? :shock:
and how many of the 27 that remains after the great vampire purge? if it's an all out battle, the we might want to look at the entire party, not just one side.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
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Unread postby kaerstan01 » November 29th, 2008, 7:33 am

Raitei wrote:and how many of the 27 that remains after the great vampire purge? if it's an all out battle, the we might want to look at the entire party, not just one side.



and i thought being called a dead apostle ancestor also means that they have survived the toughest of the situations being that a vampire plague and the sort for the last hundred years or so, and yeah maybe half of them are most likely gone (-1 coz nrvnqsr got pwnd by a fruit knife lolol)

oh, and isnt ORT, merem , primate murder on the list of 27 (they aint weak right?)

do correct me if im wrong

damn, were really getting off topic here :P :P

edit:
and for the sake of the DAA's, so that they wont be marginalized
http://tatari.110mb.com/fuyuki/somemisc ... svsdaa.htm

a little info bout them

:o is satsujinki really hunting them :? (yeah i know, hes still not cannon)
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Unread postby Levethix » December 8th, 2008, 5:20 am

Hmm.. Personaly I would think victory would only matter on a few conditions before hand instead of depending how strong someone else is. I normaly find the person who gets a surprise first strike to be the victor.

Examples (spoilers for Tsukihime)
Shiki getting the jump on arc in her appartment
Shiki beating Akiha in that one bad end for her arc

(Fate/stay night)
Archer owning caster with the mass of floating blades in the UBW arc.
Gil owning caster with a hail of blades in the Fate arc
True Assassin getting Lancer's heart in the HF arc


But yeah. the whole power level thing aside, I think it really just matters who gets the tactical advantage in battle by traps, surprise and luck that really matters.
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Unread postby Shiki>Servants » December 13th, 2008, 4:41 am

Image
Image
Image
Shit is awesome.
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Unread postby Raitei » December 13th, 2008, 4:49 am

Shiki>Servants wrote:
Image
Image
Image
Shit is awesome.
no matter how many times you look into it, type-moon complex x's credibility is zero.
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence
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Unread postby Shiki>Servants » December 13th, 2008, 4:51 am

Because you say so.


Hey , isn't this a poll? i can't vote...
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Unread postby Raitei » December 13th, 2008, 4:59 am

Shiki>Servants wrote:Because you say so.
oh really? shiki cannot kill servant with his eyes. also...
Q&A with Nasu Kinoko, taken from fuyuki wrote:Q. In the other Type-Moon works, who else besides Arc can fight against Servants?
A. If we're working on the condition of one on one, with an extremely average Noble Phantasm. Generally most of the 27 Ancestors, Kishima Kouma, Aozaki Aoko.
If it's just a defensive fight, but would still be a fight, then Ciel. Shiki (Rakkyo), Shiki (Tsukihime) are no match for Servants....but Ryougi Shiki (3rd personality) might be able to go as far as the Ciel class.


ciel can only manage a defensive fight against a servant, "one on one, with an extremely average Noble Phantasm". nasu's statement. not defeat rider who has an a+ noble phantasm and manage to emerge unscatched.

expect nothing much more from a troll username...
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence
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Unread postby Shiki>Servants » December 13th, 2008, 5:08 am

I take it that you didn't read that comic. It wasn't one on one. Arcueid was holding big B's sword and Shiki took his chance and killed him.
And servants are overrated. nasu can say all what they want about they being invincibles and then make them lose against kids.
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Unread postby Raitei » December 13th, 2008, 5:14 am

Shiki>Servants wrote:I take it that you didn't read that comic. It wasn't one on one. Arcueid was holding big B's sword and Shiki took his chance and killed him.
oh, I read that doujin. (emphasis on doujin)
arc killing berserker several times before halting berserker and shiki finally deal finishing blow with the knife... also, how he erased shirou's reality marble with one stab. really. wtf?


let me say this : doujins aren't canon. and type-moon complex x happens to bethe one with lowest credibility of reference to the real nasuverse. also, if you dare to argue against nasu (not me. I'm merely stating what he said), this isn't the place. why don't you just send him an e-mail?
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence
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Unread postby Shiki>Servants » December 13th, 2008, 5:24 am

If you want to be a smartass you fail. Doujin is a fan work, it can be a novel, comic ,game.
And it's still not having credibility just because you say so.
let me try:

CCC comics are not canon, but have a lot credibility.
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Unread postby nobaka » December 13th, 2008, 7:51 am

Shiki>Servants wrote:If you want to be a smartass you fail. Doujin is a fan work, it can be a novel, comic ,game.
And it's still not having credibility just because you say so.
let me try:

CCC comics are not canon, but have a lot credibility.


If credibility is the same as preference or plot powers, yes. Otherwise, it's a doujin. That's like saying if I drew really well, my opinions would hold more credibility than they do now. :P
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