T-Moon Complex Discussion

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In a nutshell, who do you think should win?

Poll ended at April 17th, 2008, 12:48 pm

The F/SN Crew
5
31%
The gang from Tsukihime
6
38%
Both
2
13%
Neither
1
6%
Archer [The 'World's Guardian(s)'] / The World
2
13%
 
Total votes : 16

Unread postby Kansho » July 19th, 2008, 5:25 pm

The idea of Servants can't be killed by Shiki is easy. Servant's didn't exist in this world as beings of this era, and Shiki can't kill things that didn't exist under Gaian rules. The end.

More = spoiler. If you want it, I'm here.
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Unread postby Einherjar » July 19th, 2008, 6:40 pm

Kansho wrote:The idea of Servants can't be killed by Shiki is easy. Servant's didn't exist in this world as beings of this era, and Shiki can't kill things that didn't exist under Gaian rules. The end.

More = spoiler. If you want it, I'm here.

This is explained atleast a dozen of times already in the forums, it's almost justified to make a sticky about it.
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Unread postby Neko Arc » July 20th, 2008, 5:25 pm

I don't know who should i believe. And people likes to play this game, let's all play it then.

Quote: Baiken.

Nasu himself was more than ambiguous about Shiki's ability to see Servant's lines, hinting that he couldn't. Note, it's not necessarily that Servants don't have lines, but particularly that Shiki can't see them.

Nasu made-- rather "hints" than clear statements. Well, it's not even clear if he was talking about a materialized Servant or about the record of the hero back at the Throne.

http://nrvnqsr.proboards20.com/index.cg ... 7&page=145

So there's nothing sure about the matter. And all asumptions are just speculations, made by people who favor Fate and Servants and dislike Shiki noneless.
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Unread postby cerevox » November 4th, 2008, 5:54 pm

It seems to me that FSN has an advantage in both number of people and power, with a few exceptions. The servants should be able to beat almost anyone on the Tsukihime side. The big exception being Arc. Nasu said she had the firepower of 4 servants, but thats just firepower. It is not taking her skills or her marble phantasm, which push her a to a much higer level.

And then the kicker. That is all assuming she is using 7/10 of her power to supress her bloodlust. In a fight between FSN and tsukihime, since shiki can't use his eyes on a servant he would die fast, and i imagine that would piss arc off. If she snaps and starts drinking blood she would have enough power to flatten anyone in seconds.

And as i recall (although i might be wrong) the first dead apostle, primate murder, belongs to Arc, so she can call it up and Primate Murder is retardly powerful. Although im not sure if it would count as cast of tsukihime so maybe not. However, Crimson Moon should be available and since she is its heir thats even more power to her.

So, my point is, Tsukihime has a lot of odd ball powers that have a single really strong effect, and FSN has a lot of more general powers, so it would be an even fairly even fight that FSN would have an edge in, until Arc steamrolls everything.
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Unread postby Raitei » November 4th, 2008, 11:09 pm

cerevox wrote:It seems to me that FSN has an advantage in both number of people and power, with a few exceptions. The servants should be able to beat almost anyone on the Tsukihime side. The big exception being Arc. Nasu said she had the firepower of 4 servants, but thats just firepower. It is not taking her skills or her marble phantasm, which push her a to a much higer level.

And then the kicker. That is all assuming she is using 7/10 of her power to supress her bloodlust. In a fight between FSN and tsukihime, since shiki can't use his eyes on a servant he would die fast, and i imagine that would piss arc off. If she snaps and starts drinking blood she would have enough power to flatten anyone in seconds.
arc simply cannot handle 7 servants of f/sn casts. just gil and saber is enough actually. avalon is enough to defend from whatever destructive interference arc's marble phantasm creates, while ea (in full power. in the game, I doubt we even see one fourth of its original power) should wipe the marble phantasm for good.

cerevox wrote:And as i recall (although i might be wrong) the first dead apostle, primate murder, belongs to Arc, so she can call it up and Primate Murder is retardly powerful. Although im not sure if it would count as cast of tsukihime so maybe not. However, Crimson Moon should be available and since she is its heir thats even more power to her.
primate murder's altrouge's lapdog. not arc's

cerevox wrote:So, my point is, Tsukihime has a lot of odd ball powers that have a single really strong effect, and FSN has a lot of more general powers, so it would be an even fairly even fight that FSN would have an edge in, until Arc steamrolls everything.
arc cannot steamroll everything. it's not that simple. heck, arc's not the strongest being in nasuverse in truth.
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Unread postby Catastrophe » November 5th, 2008, 2:02 am

Raitei wrote:arc's not the strongest being in nasuverse in truth.


its NekoArc right?

j/k j/k j/k j/k :lol:

anyway, only read the first one and zerker being wiped in a single throw felt.. well..... idiotic? :?
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » November 6th, 2008, 4:17 am

Catastrophe wrote:
Raitei wrote:arc's not the strongest being in nasuverse in truth.


its NekoArc right?

j/k j/k j/k j/k :lol:

anyway, only read the first one and zerker being wiped in a single throw felt.. well..... idiotic? :?


Well I don't know about Neco-Arc since she can be a total wild card when it comes to fighting. I mean this pic alone explains it though.



Also, for Beserker being pwned like that by Shiki
is a bit too easy to do since I'm not certain how the Mystic Eyes of death can sucessfully "kill" a Servant. Not only that but to "kill" Shirou's Reality Marble without going into a breakdown like he did in Ceil's storyline.
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Unread postby kaerstan01 » November 6th, 2008, 5:48 pm

since it'll be all about "power levels" (LOL geeks :D ) FSN cast beats the Tsuki gang... however, because of shiki being a badass kickass normal and the fact that almost all the powerlevel fanboys hate him, i'd go with the tsuki gang ( and i just love aoko sensei, s exy red haired nee chan)
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Unread postby gexer64 » November 7th, 2008, 12:09 am

troll wrote:Officially it's off yes. However who ever said this work was official?

If you don't like it make something better.

If you don't like it don't read it.


Btw about the casts fighting, who said it had to be a straight up fight? On Tsukihime's side are great thinkers, and people specializing in mental and guerrilla warfare.
In a single answer lies a thousand questions.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » November 7th, 2008, 12:38 am

Here I thought the Tsukihime group was broken when compairing them to the Fate side. In any case it seems that this is more then just two long, and yet inetesting chapters since it can't finish like how it happened in the second chapter.

In any case I have to re-read both chapters just to remember what happened so far.
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Unread postby Len » November 23rd, 2008, 2:07 am

I think it's official that Arcued = 4 servants.

Just my opinion but I think you're underrating Shiki a bit. I mean he did beat Nero (someone "as fast" as Arcued though not as strong) so how come he'd be so disadvantaged against servants? As for Ciel beating rider, well I think it's not surprising because Ciel's immortal that time and she had Seven which was fatal for almost any supernaturals ( Also... I wouldn't send my unicorn head on against a huge bayonet, won't that instantly kill it? The same way I wouldn't send it head on against the rays of excalibur. )
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Unread postby zweiterversuch » November 23rd, 2008, 2:46 am

Len wrote:I think it's official that Arcued = 4 servants.

Just my opinion but I think you're underrating Shiki a bit. I mean he did beat Nero (someone "as fast" as Arcued though not as strong) so how come he'd be so disadvantaged against servants? As for Ciel beating rider, well I think it's not surprising because Ciel's immortal that time and she had Seven which was fatal for almost any supernaturals ( Also... I wouldn't send my unicorn head on against a huge bayonet, won't that instantly kill it? The same way I wouldn't send it head on against the rays of excalibur. )



Ok everybody...lets not try to compare the rules of the different Nasuverses...(your head will hurt if you do.)

Arc is the most powerfull in the Tsuki universe.

Gil is the most powerfull in the Fate universe (despite the fact he gets beaten quite easly...(I know it is due to a lot of reasons.))

Shiki is a badass...

Shirou is a badass...

All other girls are hot...
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Unread postby Len » November 23rd, 2008, 4:21 am

You sure it's Gil? I've always thought it was Dark Sakura

I'm trying to put it in a different manner.
Shiki VS Shirou

Appearances

Shiki

Melty Blood
Tsukihime Manga
Melty Blood Arc Cadenza
Kagetsu Tohya
Melty Blood Manga
Melty Blood React

shirou

FHA
UBW
Fate Stay Night
Fate Stay Night anime
Fate Manga

Shiki wins

Harem

Shiki and his Tohno Gland

Arcued
Akiha
Len
Ciel
Sacchin
Hisui
Kohaku
Arima
(A possible Aoko)

Shirou

Sakura
Rin
Saber
Illya

Shiki still wins xD
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Unread postby NonExistence » November 23rd, 2008, 5:06 am

the Tohno Gland also attracted Akira, don't forget. also tokie.

and it's always fun to ponder the possibilities of a shiki (T./N.) x shiki (R.) combo.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » November 23rd, 2008, 5:57 am

NonExistence wrote:the Tohno Gland also attracted Akira, don't forget. also tokie.

and it's always fun to ponder the possibilities of a shiki (T./N.) x shiki (R.) combo.


Actually Tokie was the one who awoke the Tohno gland within Shiki since she was actually his first time with a woman. At least that was Nasu has said... or maybe that was just a joke.

As for Tohno meeting Ryougi, basically that would cause the enire Nasuverse to come to an abrupt end.... unless it's after Tsukihime/MetlyBlood meyheam and the Kara no Kyoukai inccidents then I see no problem with the two meeting since it should be innevedable never the less.

As for that Arc= 4 servants that was a bust compairison between Saber and Arc herself.
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Unread postby Len » November 23rd, 2008, 7:20 am

Kid-Wolf wrote:
NonExistence wrote:the Tohno Gland also attracted Akira, don't forget. also tokie.

and it's always fun to ponder the possibilities of a shiki (T./N.) x shiki (R.) combo.


Actually Tokie was the one who awoke the Tohno gland within Shiki since she was actually his first time with a woman. At least that was Nasu has said... or maybe that was just a joke.

As for Tohno meeting Ryougi, basically that would cause the enire Nasuverse to come to an abrupt end.... unless it's after Tsukihime/MetlyBlood meyheam and the Kara no Kyoukai inccidents then I see no problem with the two meeting since it should be innevedable never the less.

As for that Arc= 4 servants that was a bust compairison between Saber and Arc herself.


Ryougi has a good chance of falling in love with Shiki if they meet. Since he looks like her boyfriend (when I first watched this I thought Shiki Tohno was her son...) and there is always that Tohno gland. Oh and did you mean inevitable?
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » November 23rd, 2008, 7:32 am

Yes I kind of did, but you know the problem with having dyslexic momnets. In any case those two should only meet after thier respected stories. For if they meet druing thier stories that were going on then both stories would break down, and then everything will have to start all over due to them having the "They must never meet curse" on them. It is only hafter Kara no Kyoukai and Tsumihime/MeltyBlood are those two allowed to meet. Although if Tsukihime 2 takes place any time after MeltyBlood, or even a few months after Tsukihime then there will be a slight problem with the two metting since Shiki will be away from Misaski City.
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Unread postby Len » November 23rd, 2008, 8:40 am

Kid-Wolf wrote:Yes I kind of did, but you know the problem with having dyslexic momnets. In any case those two should only meet after thier respected stories. For if they meet druing thier stories that were going on then both stories would break down, and then everything will have to start all over due to them having the "They must never meet curse" on them. It is only hafter Kara no Kyoukai and Tsumihime/MeltyBlood are those two allowed to meet. Although if Tsukihime 2 takes place any time after MeltyBlood, or even a few months after Tsukihime then there will be a slight problem with the two metting since Shiki will be away from Misaski City.


Yes but as you said it will only be a *slight problem* since it only takes an alteration on the plot to make things happen. Especially that there are names that connect the worlds together (Zelracht, Aoko Aozaki, Touko Aozaki) which could be used as the focal point for the meetings.
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Unread postby Ryougi07 » November 27th, 2008, 2:36 pm

If the TYPEs and the 27 DAs plus Aoko-sensei are included in the Tsukihime gang, the fight becomes a no-brainer....
1..2...3...BOOOOOOOOOOM.
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Unread postby Raitei » November 27th, 2008, 4:49 pm

types belong to the angel notes. 27 daas? servants might be able to match them. aoko? caster'd beat her pretty easily.
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