How do you interpretate the stories of Visual Novels?

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How do you interpretate the stories of Visual Novels?

Unread postby radical_number6 » March 28th, 2008, 5:40 pm

I know Nasuverse has parellel universe so some of you might take that into perspective when seeing the different routes together as a whole, but that doesnt really matter coz then you could look it that way for all VN but can you just see one route as a stand-alone type and the other routes doesnt have any connections?
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Unread postby Undream » March 28th, 2008, 6:53 pm

I just see routes as the different possibilities that might have happened, something like parallel universes
"...One must wait continuously, one must pursue endlessly.
They must realize that it was impossible to succeed yet
at the same time be capable of enduring patiently.
Is that... the story of a dream that shouldn't be waited upon?..."
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Unread postby Kanzar » March 28th, 2008, 9:41 pm

They're parallel universes, including bad ends, fake ends and the good/true endings... At every decision, a parallel world where you decided the other way exists. And VNs are all about decisions, yes? :P
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Unread postby radical_number6 » March 29th, 2008, 5:00 am

then lets say in the parallel universe, in one rin is sister with sakura, do you see them as sisters in another universe?
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Unread postby Undream » March 29th, 2008, 5:26 am

radical_number6 wrote:then lets say in the parallel universe, in one rin is sister with sakura, do you see them as sisters in another universe?

By parallel universe i mean the decisions you make, rin and sakura are sisters from the very beginnin so you cant change that, even if its not mentioned in a route
"...One must wait continuously, one must pursue endlessly.
They must realize that it was impossible to succeed yet
at the same time be capable of enduring patiently.
Is that... the story of a dream that shouldn't be waited upon?..."
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Unread postby radical_number6 » March 29th, 2008, 11:52 am

Undream wrote:
radical_number6 wrote:then lets say in the parallel universe, in one rin is sister with sakura, do you see them as sisters in another universe?

By parallel universe i mean the decisions you make, rin and sakura are sisters from the very beginnin so you cant change that, even if its not mentioned in a route


i know. stupid questions. if they werent sisters, one of them wouldnt exist or something. but by decisions you make, you only know as much as youlive by the decisions you make, but say when you take a different route, you uncover some revelations(bar blood relations; you cant do anything on genetics). would those revelations still exist for all universe?
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Unread postby Mukuro » March 29th, 2008, 3:24 pm

Like in Tsukihime?

In near side route Shiki met and got to know Arcueid, while in Far side he don't even know her existence?
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Unread postby Undream » March 29th, 2008, 4:27 pm

radical_number6 wrote:
Undream wrote:
radical_number6 wrote:then lets say in the parallel universe, in one rin is sister with sakura, do you see them as sisters in another universe?

By parallel universe i mean the decisions you make, rin and sakura are sisters from the very beginnin so you cant change that, even if its not mentioned in a route


i know. stupid questions. if they werent sisters, one of them wouldnt exist or something. but by decisions you make, you only know as much as youlive by the decisions you make, but say when you take a different route, you uncover some revelations(bar blood relations; you cant do anything on genetics). would those revelations still exist for all universe?


yeah (at least i think so) because in each route you uncover some parts of the whole picture. The only thing that changes is the result.
"...One must wait continuously, one must pursue endlessly.
They must realize that it was impossible to succeed yet
at the same time be capable of enduring patiently.
Is that... the story of a dream that shouldn't be waited upon?..."
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Unread postby radical_number6 » March 29th, 2008, 4:29 pm

Mukuro wrote:Like in Tsukihime?

In near side route Shiki met and got to know Arcueid, while in Far side he don't even know her existence?


close to it, but a bit further like shiki fixed his problem with
roa along with husui, kohaku, and akiha but can you consider those routes as stand-alone stories and like acrueid and the rest have little meaning, for example, arcueid wont even exist but ciel would be just a normal student. can u consider it that way?
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Unread postby Brizzle » March 29th, 2008, 4:47 pm

radical_number6 wrote:then lets say in the parallel universe, in one rin is sister with sakura, do you see them as sisters in another universe?


Rin and Sakura are always sisters. They have the same parents. How could they not be in another universe?
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Unread postby Kanzar » March 29th, 2008, 10:06 pm

In a universe where their parents never met. It is possible for there to be such a universe, but it won't be within the scope of FSN, as FSN begins with Sakura and Rin being alive and as they would be/are if they were sisters (don't think that made much sense). The various routes of FSN are considered parallel universes - the road not travelled, so to speak.


All differences between the routes should be due to any decision you made.

Tsukihime spoilers:
The only 'incongruity' in the above statement is Roa. In the Near-side routes, it's Roa that has dominance. In Far-side, it's SHIKI. But that couldn't possibly be due to anything Shiki does within the course of the story... Unless his decisions wrt Akiha affects SHIKI through the link?
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Unread postby Undream » March 29th, 2008, 10:32 pm

Kanzar wrote:
Tsukihime spoilers:
The only 'incongruity' in the above statement is Roa. In the Near-side routes, it's Roa that has dominance. In Far-side, it's SHIKI. But that couldn't possibly be due to anything Shiki does within the course of the story... Unless his decisions wrt Akiha affects SHIKI through the link?


Maybe what awakens the Roa Dominance being constantly in touch with arcueid, but in the near routes she appears close to zero (though i dont remember)
so pherpaps that summed with the developing relationships inside the house could make SHIKI get stronger due to the link between them..
Or something like that.. :roll:
"...One must wait continuously, one must pursue endlessly.
They must realize that it was impossible to succeed yet
at the same time be capable of enduring patiently.
Is that... the story of a dream that shouldn't be waited upon?..."
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Unread postby Brizzle » March 29th, 2008, 11:34 pm

Kanzar wrote:
In a universe where their parents never met. It is possible for there to be such a universe, but it won't be within the scope of FSN, as FSN begins with Sakura and Rin being alive and as they would be/are if they were sisters (don't think that made much sense). The various routes of FSN are considered parallel universes - the road not travelled, so to speak.


All differences between the routes should be due to any decision you made.


But if their parents never met they wouldn't exist to begin with. In any universe where they both exist they would have to be sisters.
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Unread postby Kanzar » March 30th, 2008, 12:22 am

Brizzle wrote:
But if their parents never met they wouldn't exist to begin with. In any universe where they both exist they would have to be sisters.


Sakura and Rin as you know them would have to be like that. But a 'what if' world could have it where those two 'exist' - but not as you know them.
For example, maybe the Matou family just happened to actually have a daughter. And they just happened to call her Sakura. It wouldn't be the same Matou Sakura that you know, but Matou Sakura would still exist. I'm just trying to say, that it is possible for there to be a Tohsaka Rin and Matou Sakura to exist (in some far off universe) that are not related to each other - as long as 'chance' had it that Sakura was not born from the Tohsaka family and the Matou family had their own daughter.
It's just that these worlds would not be within the scope of FSN, as the Sakura and Rin that exist from the start of the story are related, and hence are not part of the Nasuverse. We name things that are canon to be within the "Nasuverse" - we can't consider all parallel worlds to be canon, but it is 'possible' (within the world of fiction) for there to be such parallel worlds that do not fall into the Nasuverse.
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Unread postby Undream » March 30th, 2008, 2:27 am

Kanzar wrote:
Brizzle wrote:
But if their parents never met they wouldn't exist to begin with. In any universe where they both exist they would have to be sisters.


Sakura and Rin as you know them would have to be like that. But a 'what if' world could have it where those two 'exist' - but not as you know them.
For example, maybe the Matou family just happened to actually have a daughter. And they just happened to call her Sakura. It wouldn't be the same Matou Sakura that you know, but Matou Sakura would still exist. I'm just trying to say, that it is possible for there to be a Tohsaka Rin and Matou Sakura to exist (in some far off universe) that are not related to each other - as long as 'chance' had it that Sakura was not born from the Tohsaka family and the Matou family had their own daughter.
It's just that these worlds would not be within the scope of FSN, as the Sakura and Rin that exist from the start of the story are related, and hence are not part of the Nasuverse. We name things that are canon to be within the "Nasuverse" - we can't consider all parallel worlds to be canon, but it is 'possible' (within the world of fiction) for there to be such parallel worlds that do not fall into the Nasuverse.


Lol, of course. The only Canon parallel universes are those that origin from a decision made in the game, be it one that leads to a dead end or one that continues the story. All the other infinite combination belong to the mighty fandom and it legion of fanfics xD
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They must realize that it was impossible to succeed yet
at the same time be capable of enduring patiently.
Is that... the story of a dream that shouldn't be waited upon?..."
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Unread postby radical_number6 » March 30th, 2008, 5:38 am

but then would the behind the scenes of one parallel universe showed up as true in another universe? like for example
like in Far side, shiki didnt even met arcueid, can you consider arcueid didnt exist in that universe and shiki saved hisui, akiha, and kohaku and lived happily ever after? you can point out that you need arcueid to have roa but can you just consider it as a stand-alone story and arcuied just doesnt exist?
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Unread postby Kiraiya » March 30th, 2008, 5:55 am

radical_number6 wrote:but then would the behind the scenes of one parallel universe showed up as true in another universe? like for example
like in Far side, shiki didnt even met arcueid, can you consider arcueid didnt exist in that universe and shiki saved hisui, akiha, and kohaku and lived happily ever after? you can point out that you need arcueid to have roa but can you just consider it as a stand-alone story and arcuied just doesnt exist?


I think knowledge of someones existence and actual existence are 2 different concepts....imo
She would exist in that universe just that her existence isnt known but that doesn't mean she isnt there. Just because you have no knowledge of something doesnt mean that that something doesnt exist. Yes she has no impact on the story really but its more like she wasnt involved not that she didnt exist.
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Unread postby radical_number6 » March 30th, 2008, 5:59 am

Kiraiya wrote:
radical_number6 wrote:but then would the behind the scenes of one parallel universe showed up as true in another universe? like for example
like in Far side, shiki didnt even met arcueid, can you consider arcueid didnt exist in that universe and shiki saved hisui, akiha, and kohaku and lived happily ever after? you can point out that you need arcueid to have roa but can you just consider it as a stand-alone story and arcuied just doesnt exist?


I think knowledge of someones existence and actual existence are 2 different concepts....imo
She would exist in that universe just that her existence isnt known but that doesn't mean she isnt there. Just because you have no knowledge of something doesnt mean that that something doesnt exist. Yes she has no impact on the story really but its more like she wasnt involved not that she didnt exist.


but then it would be too cruel to save one person and not the other :( thats why i like the concept of stand-alone stories. so then every1 would be happy :)
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Unread postby Undream » March 30th, 2008, 6:17 am

radical_number6 wrote:
but then it would be too cruel to save one person and not the other :( thats why i like the concept of stand-alone stories. so then every1 would be happy :)


lol, that line was very shirou-ish
"...One must wait continuously, one must pursue endlessly.
They must realize that it was impossible to succeed yet
at the same time be capable of enduring patiently.
Is that... the story of a dream that shouldn't be waited upon?..."
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Unread postby Kanzar » March 30th, 2008, 7:06 am

You did save her. In another universe. :P
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