Newbie...Need help with techno stuff!

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Newbie...Need help with techno stuff!

Unread postby DuLexSidLex » June 24th, 2007, 2:44 pm

I have been wondering ever since I came up with this word: What is a PATCH file?

Sorry for asking this because I'm eager to try your projects but don't have any clue on how to use it? Can anyone help me... :roll:

Thank You!
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Unread postby Message » June 24th, 2007, 3:02 pm

Technically, a patch is an executable program that modifies data in files. So a translation patch would be an executable program that takes a game in Japanese, and then modifies its files so that it becomes a game in English. We use the term 'patch' rather loosely, though. For example, we often speak about the "Tsukihime English patch", while it is actually a Tsukihime English installer. Our installer doesn't change anything, instead it installs a clean, new copy of the English version of the game. So there isn't an original Japanese Tsukihime installation that gets "patched", it is an entirely new English Tsukihime installation that gets "installed".

And if you want to be very literal our Fate/stay night Fate route patch is not 100% a patch either, since it replaces files, it doesn't change any. However since it doesn't create a completely new English F/sn installation from scratch, it is more accurate to call it a "patch" than an "installer".

In most non-technical contexts the word "patch" simply means a program that gives you an English version of the game. It may do it through changing an existing installation, replacing files in an existing installation, or creating an entirely new installation. The word is often used in a technically inaccurate way, but the differences aren't very great.
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Unread postby DuLexSidLex » June 24th, 2007, 3:21 pm

Message wrote:Technically, a patch is an executable program that modifies data in files. So a translation patch would be an executable program that takes a game in Japanese, and then modifies its files so that it becomes a game in English. We use the term 'patch' rather loosely, though. For example, we often speak about the "Tsukihime English patch", while it is actually a Tsukihime English installer. Our installer doesn't change anything, instead it installs a clean, new copy of the English version of the game. So there isn't an original Japanese Tsukihime installation that gets "patched", it is an entirely new English Tsukihime installation that gets "installed".

And if you want to be very literal our Fate/stay night Fate route patch is not 100% a patch either, since it replaces files, it doesn't change any. However since it doesn't create a completely new English F/sn installation from scratch, it is more accurate to call it a "patch" than an "installer".

In most non-technical contexts the word "patch" simply means a program that gives you an English version of the game. It may do it through changing an existing installation, replacing files in an existing installation, or creating an entirely new installation. The word is often used in a technically inaccurate way, but the differences aren't very great.


Wow :shock: ...so you need the original game for the PATCH to work? (correct me if I am wrong)
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Unread postby Message » June 24th, 2007, 3:26 pm

DuLexSidLex wrote:Wow :shock: ...so you need the original game for the PATCH to work? (correct me if I am wrong)

Yes, we do not distribute translated games in full, since that would greatly damage the visual novel industry and decrease the chances of commercial translation companies to get any market in the West. In fact the user agreements of our releases forbid the use of our translations with illegal copies of the games. If you want to play our translations, you will need to buy the original game first.
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Unread postby puKKa » June 24th, 2007, 3:32 pm

Message wrote:
DuLexSidLex wrote:Wow :shock: ...so you need the original game for the PATCH to work? (correct me if I am wrong)

Yes, we do not distribute translated games in full, since that would greatly damage the visual novel industry and decrease the chances of commercial translation companies to get any market in the West. In fact the user agreements of our releases forbid the use of our translations with illegal copies of the games. If you want to play our translations, you will need to buy the original game first.


or steal Messages' copy.
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Unread postby DuLexSidLex » June 24th, 2007, 3:38 pm

Message wrote:
DuLexSidLex wrote:Wow :shock: ...so you need the original game for the PATCH to work? (correct me if I am wrong)

Yes, we do not distribute translated games in full, since that would greatly damage the visual novel industry and decrease the chances of commercial translation companies to get any market in the West. In fact the user agreements of our releases forbid the use of our translations with illegal copies of the games. If you want to play our translations, you will need to buy the original game first.


So, in other words, the translations would also work with the illegal (pirated copies) of the games, such as Tsukihime and Fate Stay Night? There is the tendency that some would do such thing against what is stated in the user agreements... :cry:

Thanks for the info-sharing, Message!
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Unread postby Message » June 24th, 2007, 3:52 pm

DuLexSidLex wrote:There is the tendency that some would do such thing against what is stated in the user agreements... :cry:

Unfortunately there is little we can do to stop those people, there is no such thing as a perfect copy protection. We can only hope that people will respect our work and the creators enough to show the decency of keeping their word.
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Unread postby DuLexSidLex » June 24th, 2007, 4:00 pm

Message wrote:
DuLexSidLex wrote:There is the tendency that some would do such thing against what is stated in the user agreements... :cry:

Unfortunately there is little we can do to stop those people, there is no such thing as a perfect copy protection. We can only hope that people will respect our work and the creators enough to show the decency of keeping their word.


Wow...talk about keeping their word these days! Thanks for the much needed info, Message! :D
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Unread postby Atvaark » June 25th, 2007, 6:18 pm

this convo (and multiple others...) lead me to the following question. doesn't all games have some sort of Disk ID that can't be burned on a regular cd? can't it be made possible to have the patches search for that specific id on top of the required files? and encrypting your files in the installer would help too, no?

anyway, that's just a though, but I'd greatly help if it forces people to really have a legit cd.
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Unread postby Message » June 25th, 2007, 7:22 pm

As I said, a perfect copy protection is impossible. We believe that the weeks or months required to devise an application that checks for legit CDs without breaking things for legit users would be better spent doing what we do best - translating games.
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Unread postby Xavier » June 25th, 2007, 9:21 pm

Lol, anti-piracy and piracy's happening here.


Like Message said, it's too much extra work to put all of that in just a small patch. It's better if they just focus themselves on the translation and hope everyone who patch up the game has a real copy of it.



Although, it'll be awesome at least 95% of the people have real copies.
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Unread postby Atvaark » June 26th, 2007, 4:44 am

well, if it's some consolation, at least 55% of people have original copies...it's a start?
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Unread postby DuLexSidLex » June 27th, 2007, 2:14 pm

Another batch of questions:
1. Can anyone explain to me what's .tmp, .bin, .cdd, .cue, and .sub files, it so happened that I stumbled upon on these type of files lately? Are they executable and if I delete them, would my PC crash?
2. How does patching works, install first the game or the patch; should the patch be in the same folder as of the game or not?
3. I just installed AppLocale in preparation for the game I ordered from paletweb, how do I use it?
4. If I use AppLocale, would the game crash if the patch is already installed?
5. Lastly, in all...how much storage space will I consume if I install the game, the patch and the AppLocale? If ever it does consume a lot of space, I want to plan ahead in increasing the storage space already... :oops:

I know it's a long list of questions, but I'm eager to learn from you guys. Thanks!
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Unread postby Message » June 27th, 2007, 3:14 pm

1. Those are CD images (most probably illegal). You can safely remove them. .tmp files are temporary files, you can most probably delete them as well.
2. For Melty Blood English and Tsukihime English you just run our English installer and follow the instructions. You do not need to install Melty Blood or Tsukihime yourself. For Fate/stay night, first install the Japanese game, then install the patch into your Fate/stay night installation directory.
3. Start AppLocale from the start menu, point it to the executable you want to run (fate.exe for example, or the installer/setup on the F/sn CD), and on the next page select the bottom-most language (this is Japanese).
4. No. In fact you will need to run the game through AppLocale every time, even AFTER you patch it.
5. Roughtly 2GB.
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Unread postby DuLexSidLex » June 27th, 2007, 4:09 pm

Message wrote:1. Those are CD images (most probably illegal). You can safely remove them. .tmp files are temporary files, you can most probably delete them as well.
2. For Melty Blood English and Tsukihime English you just run our English installer and follow the instructions. You do not need to install Melty Blood or Tsukihime yourself. For Fate/stay night, first install the Japanese game, then install the patch into your Fate/stay night installation directory.
3. Start AppLocale from the start menu, point it to the executable you want to run (fate.exe for example, or the installer/setup on the F/sn CD), and on the next page select the bottom-most language (this is Japanese).
4. No. In fact you will need to run the game through AppLocale every time, even AFTER you patch it.
5. Roughtly 2GB.


Wow, thx Message...in lieu of your answers:
1. I just realized I have lots of .tmp files, so I have deleted them already.
3. I experimented in using AppLocale on an executable program (i.e. mirc), followed the steps then the result was: YOUR SYSTEM DOES NOT HAVE THE LANGUAGE SUPPORT FOR THE SELECTED LANGUAGE INSTALLED. What should I do next? :cry:
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Unread postby Sobzob » June 27th, 2007, 5:09 pm

1. Open the control panel
2. Go to Regional and Language options
3. Click 'Languages'
4. Click 'Install files for East Asian languages'
5. You're set.
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Unread postby Eriol-kun » June 27th, 2007, 5:51 pm

Remember you'll probably need your Windows XP CD for this.
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Unread postby DuLexSidLex » June 28th, 2007, 7:08 am

Eriol-kun wrote:Remember you'll probably need your Windows XP CD for this.


Just installed already, my hardwork paid off! However...

Another urgent batch of questions:
1. After I finished my East Asian Languages installation, everytime I start up my PC...a window pops up asking the user to which OS you will start, and one of them is the Windows XP Installer Setup, how can I remove it?
2. Also, when the desktop appears on the screen, the WINDOWS INSTALLER pops up again and began: Windows configures Windows Office XP Professional with Frontpage, how can remove this?

I really need your professional help at this time! Thanks for the great help! :cry:
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Unread postby Eriol-kun » June 28th, 2007, 4:07 pm

1) On startup, even before the OS actually loads? Sounds like some sort of partition, really. o_o. Or an alternate command line; somehow your Boot.ini file must've gone awry or some other thing changed it. Doesn't sound like the font install did so. Hmm, well, you'd have to tell me the exact error/text you get for me to be of any help here.

2) If it's asking you about FrontPage or whatever, (and you don't even use FrontPage) try uninstalling FrontPage itself. If that doesn't solve it/you do not want to uninstall FrontPage, then simply let it install whatever it wants. You'll probably need the Office CD/Windows CD for it though.

Those problems shouldn't bother your running of the game, anyways. They're just common Windows mis-configurations.
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Unread postby DuLexSidLex » June 29th, 2007, 4:34 am

Eriol-kun wrote:1) On startup, even before the OS actually loads? Sounds like some sort of partition, really. o_o. Or an alternate command line; somehow your Boot.ini file must've gone awry or some other thing changed it. Doesn't sound like the font install did so. Hmm, well, you'd have to tell me the exact error/text you get for me to be of any help here.

2) If it's asking you about FrontPage or whatever, (and you don't even use FrontPage) try uninstalling FrontPage itself. If that doesn't solve it/you do not want to uninstall FrontPage, then simply let it install whatever it wants. You'll probably need the Office CD/Windows CD for it though.

Those problems shouldn't bother your running of the game, anyways. They're just common Windows mis-configurations.


Eriol-kun or EK for short, if you don't mind:
1. It's not actually an error but everytime I start up my PC and goes away from the keyboard for 10 seconds, the OS would automatically start the Windows Installation proccess, I have to reboot and restart for me to skip that option. Usually, my PC would run smoothly and never underwent such process. What could have been the cause?

2. I don't know if the solution I made was right or wrong, but the thing is I deleted the Microsoft Office program on the StartUp file folder in the Start button. Though the configuration process doesn't perform anymore when the desktop appears, I'm still bit worried if I'm doing the right thing?

Thanks... :wink:
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