So is there anyone here studying Japan.

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Unread postby lolipedofin » May 13th, 2008, 4:10 pm

Just got back from my first Japanese tutoring session today....

Man, i regret not taking the free Japanese class back at High School seriously... The teacher was fun, it was compulsory and needed for my final high school result... but i'm slacking off all the time, i ended up cheating at all test and barely met the requirements without learning anything at the end....

Now i'm trying to study again, gotta pay though this time... but it's smaller class (of course), and the sensei is cute... :oops:

Should i tell her that i learn Japanese just to play eroge?? :lol: (LOL, just kidding)
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Unread postby flurk » May 14th, 2008, 11:01 am

lolipedofin wrote:Should i tell her that i learn Japanese just to play eroge?? :lol: (LOL, just kidding)


DO IT!!! She might pull an eroge and get on y-*gets slapped by a random passing forumer*

well i did think of learning japanese before, but never got to it. i believe that knowing chinese would make learning jap easier though
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Unread postby lolipedofin » May 14th, 2008, 11:14 am

Yeah, i thought of that a little when i first saw her... but if i actually do it, that would mean my mind has already been influenced by eroge too much... :lol: :lol:

You gotta earn what you got! That's why I'll try my hardest to make a pass at her next time !!! :twisted: (??)
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Unread postby watisit » May 29th, 2008, 3:08 pm

For me, i study because of interest in anime. I go to a centre for course. Still at basic level though.
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Unread postby lolipedofin » May 29th, 2008, 3:15 pm

Finally i know all Hiragana(s). Phew... that wasn't as hard as i thought... I still got a problem on reading fluently though (of course!!). I was thinking about buying a light novel or manga, to learn reading hiragana without translating character per character... Think it'll help?? Or is it too soon...?? I got some of the basic vocab and very basic grammar... so i think i should be okay... Wait, in manga, all kanji is accompanied by furigana right?? i remember meitantei Conan was like that... Can any one of you recommend a manga i should start with??
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Unread postby Henduluin » May 29th, 2008, 4:37 pm

lolipedofin wrote:Wait, in manga, all kanji is accompanied by furigana right??


Mostly only manga aimed at a younger audience (most shonen for example) have furigana. In the more mature series, furigana is only given for uncommen kanji or odd readings.
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Unread postby Phoenician » May 29th, 2008, 7:46 pm

I read a guide on the gemot forums that said you should wait a full year (after mastering hiragana, katakana, grammar, alot of vocab, and alot of kanji)
before attempting to read in japanese, I myself started studying last weekend (I don't have much memorized b/c I'm sorta lazy) I've only worked on hiragana and katakana so far b/c I'm sort of avoiding Kanji atm, plus my class doesn't start till fall (gonna do japanese 1/2 back to back at UCF)

not to say you couldn't translate a manga or such, but it would just take alot longer considering how much kanji and katakana you'd need for any serious manga, doujin however seem to use less kanji, and visual novels seem to use more, I kinda wonder why they bother with alot of the kanji, considering nearly any japanese word can be spelled in hiragana, and katakana+furigana would cover most non-japanese words
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Unread postby SPerson » May 29th, 2008, 9:29 pm

you should wait a full year before attempting to read in japanese


Bullshit, you've to read Japanese texts right from the start, otherwise how could you possibly learn anything at all?

I kinda wonder why they bother with alot of the kanji


It'd be hell to read anything in Japanese if there weren't any kanji, mostly because of the immense number of homophones in Japanese. I'm not even talking about how awesome kanji are and how it'd make Japanese so much worse if there weren't any.

how much kanji and katakana


You've most likely have a misconception about those two, kataka is limited, so it shouldn't take much time to master it (hiragana as well), learning kanji, on the other hand, is a completely different story, one can pretty much be studying kanji for the whole life and still know only some of them (obviously, one doesn't need nearly as much to be fluent, 2-3k would be enough for most of purposes)
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Unread postby Raven » May 29th, 2008, 11:13 pm

SPerson wrote:
you should wait a full year before attempting to read in japanese


Bullshit, you've to read Japanese texts right from the start, otherwise how could you possibly learn anything at all?


I think he meant seriously reading into Japanese literature, like a book, a poem or newspaper, hell even Children book. I think it's pretty reasonable advice, I study for a little bit over a year now and only then I have confidence to start reading Japanese books. Of course, in that first year you should still be reading the Japanese script in your textbook because they're more in a manageble scale. You seem to take it as just reading Romanji in the first year. :wink:

I do believe starting to read manga when you just got the Kana alphabet down seem to be rushing things.

I kinda wonder why they bother with alot of the kanji


It'd be hell to read anything in Japanese if there weren't any kanji, mostly because of the immense number of homophones in Japanese. I'm not even talking about how awesome kanji are and how it'd make Japanese so much worse if there weren't any.


True, with the lack of space and Japanese is almost entirely an contextual language, it's much easier to read with some Kanji in a script then a pure Kana script. It has a balance, since with a writing that obsessive with Kanji like Nasu's writing, the Kanji is a nightmare.


how much kanji and katakana


From what I know, originally there are about 15000 Kanji from Chinese, literature chop that number down to around 9000 (or 6000, can't remember), but there are only about 3000 normal, regular use Kanjis that you'll need to know to fluent and read all the regular stuffs. Unless you move into heavy/old Literature or a proffesional, you don't need to know more than that. 3000 is still a lot though, in one year I think I only manage to memorize about 100 of them. Katakana is just a second alphabet used to write foreign words.


You've most likely have a misconception about those two, kataka is limited


And that's the problem in studying Katakana, most books (those that I have) just don't have enough Katakana practice, so I picked up on Katakana a hell lot slower then Hiragana.
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Unread postby lolipedofin » May 30th, 2008, 12:56 am

I'm not trying to read the manga with intention to understand what happens.... (well i hope i could) but mainly for practicing reading hiragana.... I think it'll be much more fun doing that while reading manga than from a text-book.

As for the number of kanji, isn't it constantly growing...??
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Unread postby Raven » May 30th, 2008, 3:37 am

Well, as you can see I'm still taking advice from other people regarding studying Japanese so take what I say as a grain of sand, they're more like personal experience.

I still think it's early. I don't know how mangas are written, but one thing about reading Japanese is it's very difficult to separate syllabus and word. After you study for a while though, you can detect these separation even you don't know the word, and that will make the reading worth it. I don't think you can do that right now though, so the process can become very painful and dis-encouraging. I used to think the same way as you, I didn't go with Mangas but with Eroge game (just about the same), except for Nasu's writing most Eroge are actually written in Kana with few Kanjis ... and let just say I decided to give up, go back and hit the book before it could convince me to stop studying Japanese altogether, it's just that painful.


Again, take what I say for a grain of sand, I know it's boring (I have 7 books in total and none can be exciting). But remember, studying is supposed to be rough before it can be fun. Now a year later I'm starting on some light eroge and kid's stories with a relative pleasant pace, very different from what I had earlier even though I still don't have enough Vocabulary to understand most of them.
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Unread postby 智美 » June 1st, 2008, 3:05 am

I've been studying for about 5 years now, I'm 19 and started when I was... 13 or 14-years old, I think. I've lost track. I went on a short exchange program at the end of school and then I go next year to go for the rest of my degree (hooray for transferring!). So, getting there slowly. My main motivation was to read comics at first, RIBON more specifically, but now I don't really like anime or manga very much at all, I spend most of my time playing visual novels and reading actual books. Stuff like manga and anime is really motivating when you first start out, it makes you want to be able to read it. But as time went on, I found the language incredibly interesting (especially some of the words that don't exist in English, which were difficult to master), and met my husband (who is Japanese) and I HAD to keep learning it. I hated kanji at first, but now I love kanji (they look so cute if you do them right!) and can't understand anything fully if it's all in hiragana. It's great that they all have different readings, it makes them seem like people. Multi-faceted and sometimes difficult to understand. I bought a really expensive (but fantastic) electronic dictionary over there as well, where I could write the kanji on the screen. It was the best $400 I spent, and if you're really serious and crap at kanji, it's incredibly useful. There's apparently a kanji test-majiggy for DS too, I hear it's pretty useful for practice. A few years back I installed Rikaichan on my Firefox browser which was useful for reading webpages with tiny kanji too. I try and talk as much as I can and study as often as possible to keep it all up, if I'm having trouble remembering a kanji then I look at it every day for a week until I remember it. Everybody learns a different way though, some people learn better through visual mediums like anime or manga and some people do better reading actual script, but it all turns out differently. It does hinge on how motivated/determined you are though, to a degree... like any language.

EDIT: Practice makes perfect though, once my tutor told me a story about something, and I actually said "マジで!?" in what was possible one of the most humiliating moments of my life. She's 53 years old and just burst into laughter. Stuff like that can be embarrassing, but it means you learn. I'm a translator at my work too (we have a lot of international, particularly Japanese, customers), and I got really frustrated trying to explain something to this Japanese man who just did not listen to me. I actually said "ちがう!" at one point when he was talking, but he didn't take offense, just started listening. You make a lot of mistakes when you speak at first, but you gradually start to get better.
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Unread postby Atriel » June 1st, 2008, 3:23 am

5 years O.o?!?

So, what's the meaning of those things you said? Something stupid i suppose?
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Unread postby Phoenician » June 1st, 2008, 3:46 am

智美 wrote:マジで

mazude (Mazuda?)

智美 wrote:ちがう

jigau (Wrong?)
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Unread postby 智美 » June 1st, 2008, 5:24 am

Maji de is like saying "OMG, seriously!?" and the context in which I used chigau is like saying "NO (You're wrong)!" It was just the WORST thing for me to say in each situation, because it was incredibly informal and rude, given that both the people I said this to are 50+ and one is a customer... ;;;;; Yeah, 5 years is a while for me... Sometimes I get really disheartened about it and want to quit, but I speak Japanese at home every day so it's impossible... ;____;
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Unread postby lolipedofin » June 1st, 2008, 5:34 am

Whoa... now i got extra motivation to learn Japanese...thanx.

btw, you're 19 and married??!! Damn, I'm older than you and don't even have a girlfriend right now... gotta look for one... :lol: :lol:
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Unread postby 智美 » June 1st, 2008, 5:40 am

Yeah, I got a lot of crap from my parents about it, but now they're pretty reasonable. It's pretty young to get married, to be honest. ;;;;;

Why the extra motivation!?
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Unread postby lolipedofin » June 1st, 2008, 5:47 am

The way you explain how great 日本語 is..... I wanna learn more, so next time i went to Japan again, i could at least tease a few girls.... :twisted: :twisted:

lol, just kidding... Btw, you play VN?? mm... normal one or the eroge one ?? I was kinda surprised to know a girl (Kiraiya) played an eroge, but then even join the forum... now we got two.... lol.
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Unread postby 智美 » June 1st, 2008, 6:00 am

Yeah, I love playing VN, mostly eroge and Key novels. I have Tomoyo After, Little Busters!, AIR, CLANNAD, and Fate/Stay Night, and I pre-ordered Little Busters! EX and still waiting on my Fortune Arterial and Nanatsuiro Drops to arrive. I find the Key and TYPE-MOON stories are more to my liking than stuff like... "Boy-works-for-cafe-with-lots-of-hot-maids, boy-sleeps-with-every-single-maid-and-boss-and-they-all-fall-in-love-with-him," or stuff like SEXFRIEND. Doesn't really appeal to me personally, but they wouldn't make it if there wasn't an audience for it. I hid if from my husband when we first started going out because it was a bit embarrassing, but now he's just like "Have you finished Unlimited Blade Works yet?" and yesterday when I finally told him the truth about how much Tomoyo After cost ($250 [I was really vague when I told him the first time, "Uh... $nfkjrfg or something... Can we eat dinner now?"]) he was like "That's pretty cheap, I saw it on Amazon.jp today for $450. Smart girl."

LOL, teasing Japanese girls is quite fun, I think some of them thought I was a lesbian over there... ;;;; Sometimes I have tantrums about kanji because it's IMPOSSIBLE for me to write them correctly, but I really do enjoy it. I'm hoping to learn Korean in a few years, but I don't know if it'll work out... I can read a bit, but it's really only a LITTLE bit. There are always times when I feel like throwing in the towel, but it's way too useful and fun to stop! Do you study at the moment?
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Unread postby lolipedofin » June 1st, 2008, 6:26 am

智美 wrote:Yeah, I love playing VN, mostly eroge and Key novels. I have Tomoyo After, Little Busters!, AIR, CLANNAD, and Fate/Stay Night, and I pre-ordered Little Busters! EX and still waiting on my Fortune Arterial and Nanatsuiro Drops to arrive. I find the Key and TYPE-MOON stories are more to my liking than stuff like... "Boy-works-for-cafe-with-lots-of-hot-maids, boy-sleeps-with-every-single-maid-and-boss-and-they-all-fall-in-love-with-him," or stuff like SEXFRIEND. Doesn't really appeal to me personally, but they wouldn't make it if there wasn't an audience for it. I hid if from my husband when we first started going out because it was a bit embarrassing, but now he's just like "Have you finished Unlimited Blade Works yet?" and yesterday when I finally told him the truth about how much Tomoyo After cost ($250) he was like "That's pretty cheap, I saw it on Amazon.jp today for $450. Smart girl."

LOL, teasing Japanese girls is quite fun, I think some of them thought I was a lesbian over there... Sometimes I have tantrums about kanji because it's IMPOSSIBLE for me to write them correctly, but I really do enjoy it. I'm hoping to learn Korean in a few years, but I don't know if it'll work out... I can read a bit, but it's really only a LITTLE bit. There are always times when I feel like throwing in the towel, but it's way too useful and fun to stop! Do you study at the moment?


Are u talking about "Ecchi na Bunny-san wa kirai?" lol. you played that? o.O and Sexfriend, i thought it was only a H-anime... Btw, you bought it for $250?? Where do you live anyway?? I thought you're in Japan.

Yup, Japanese girls are fun... I remember the last time i was there... I was in Hi-School if i was correct, i was in a bus at Kyoto, then i saw this group of Chugakusei, i think, judged from their height... They were standing near to me, then suddenly when the bus made a stop one of the girl was losing her balance and fell toward me.. I grab her arm, prevent her from falling, and still grabbing her arm i ask, "Daijoubu?" around that time i was watching Boys Be, hence one of the few Japanese words i picked up :lol: . She stared at me and goes, "U.. uhn." Kyawaaaaaiiiii !!!! lol..
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