Dark Translations offering to create commissioned patches

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Dark Translations offering to create commissioned patches

Unread postby DarkFusion » January 23rd, 2009, 6:22 am

This new group called Dark Translations, which up till now has created patches only for games by Black Lillith, has decided to try something new and create a patch for a game based on commission. Here's what the news part says on the matter:

"After not having any objections to the idea, I decided to give it a go ahead and try it out. I'm rather uncertain that there will be any interest in it, but we'll see.

The main idea stems from H-manga translators, like SaHa and Desudesu, who accept community-driven contributions to translate H-manga. I'm hoping to do something similar to what they do.

The main problem is establishing a rate to charge. H-mangas have the advantage of being able to charge per page, but H-games are so large in scope and complexity, that even estimating the amount of sentences or lines therein can be an arduous task in itself.

At the moment, with the interest of doing commissions for H-games uncertain, I will simply negotiate and form an estimate on a game-by-game basis with the contributor or contributors involved. Something like an hourly rate could be done as well.

The other problem is actually having a way to translate the game. So, not all games will be doable. The game *must* be a kirikiri game OR a game that is compatible with OAGT OR has tools already available or in development. That said, there is a decent amount of games that are compatible with OAGT, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Of course, commissions won't work without sufficient interest or enough contributions to warrant doing a translation, so get the word out.

Please read the rules I posted at the top of the commissions forum and feel free to contact me with any questions if necessary. The rules are still very much in a "beta" phase so expect them to be added, removed, or changed.

Other than that, go ahead and start posting the games you most want to see translated and how much you're willing to contribute and see how it goes. I'll certainly be commenting and keeping watch as I can."

Last I checked, they are currently considering a Black Lillith game called Elf Princess Nina (エルフ姫ニィーナ ) and another game called Kansen.

So any thoughts on this?

And just to let people know, I'm not the person in charge of the project (I can barely speak Japanese let alone read it), I'm just posting this info to hear what other eroge players think
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Re: Dark Translations offering to create commissioned patche

Unread postby zweiterversuch » January 23rd, 2009, 12:32 pm

I came, read and did not understand.

what does this have to do with mirror moon?


btw I don't think might like the idea of paying for porn (even if this is a hentai game.)
but that is only what I think. Maybe there are really people who do pay for it.

the world is a very big place....
http://visualnoveldai.com/
If you want to create your own visual novel go there!
Try it out, no compromise!
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btw Princess Tutu is still Awesome!!!
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Unread postby AlinSabel » January 23rd, 2009, 1:13 pm

There's plenty of threads in GC w/ nothing to do with mm... at least this involves translation of VNs. ._.

Good on 'em, hopefully they'll pull some more mainstream titles. I don't even care if I've never heard of it, but PLEASE, something more mainstream than what they've been doing atm.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » January 23rd, 2009, 1:22 pm

Hey as long as they do some Visual Novels on some of the popular anime series that it was derived from then I have no objections. So there's a Visual Novel translation group looking fo rcommissioned work it seems. Well this might be an oportunity to get cetain Visual novels that would never come over to the US at all since the anime came over instead.
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Unread postby LoSs » January 23rd, 2009, 2:11 pm

Elf Princess Nina (エルフ姫ニィーナ )

Both sucks.

If they like gore, than i would recommend Extravaganza, Mindead Blood, Gore Screaming Show or Gun-Katana.
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Unread postby DarkFusion » January 23rd, 2009, 3:57 pm

Actually someone tried commissioning Gore Screaming Show but unfortunately the translator didn't have the tools to insert translated text into the game.
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Unread postby LoSs » January 23rd, 2009, 5:06 pm

Find a hacker who can write a tools for you, it is not such a problem anyways+iirc someone was working on tools for GSS(tlwiki?) search there or at google.
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Unread postby exerron » January 23rd, 2009, 11:11 pm

I understand that translating and editinig and all the other stuff as well takes a lot of time, but I strongly disagree with this comisson thing.
FAN translations of visual novels and other stuff are fan translations for a reason, and it seems to me, that he( or she, but I find that rather unlikely) is trying to make money on this. I appreciate his and every translators hard work, and I don't mind donating for server fees and such, but I will not pay anything for a fan translation, as I think the main reason is to make VNs ang games popular among those who are not familiar with the original language, to show others how great a game is.

Translating something without the author's consent is considered illegal as far as I know, but doing so for money is even less legal, though I suppose no direct damage is done either way.

Also, I happened to read a few lines from the Asagi translation and it's quality is terrible, so I hope at the very least, the quality will impove when he gets payed for doing the games. Though I really have no right to say anything about it, since I will definitely not pay for them.
Last edited by exerron on January 24th, 2009, 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby X-Calibar » January 24th, 2009, 12:20 am

I don't see anything wrong with having a commission system. (well from a logical standpoint... don't know enough about laws and such) Basically people with money post which game they would want translated and how much they would be willing to pay for the translation. Once it reaches enough to be worth the person's time to translate whatever game they want translated, he can decide to try to make a translation patch. It may be a game nobody would translate otherwise...

Also, he/she doesn't seem to be charging for the patch, meaning once it's done, it's downloadable by everyone. The commission is simply that, an incentive to spend time on a game he/she otherwise wouldn't translate.

Here's a quote :
Commission Rules:

1. It *must* be a game I have a way of translating. That means, it must be a kirikiri game, a game that is compatible with OAGT, or has existing tools to allow me to translate it.
2. It *should* be a game that has some kind of dark theme. My fans wouldn't like me translating Candyland Rainbows.
3. The games posted in this forum are *potential* commissions only. That means you post the game you'd like to see translated and how much you would be willing to contribute. *Please* make a post for each game so that they can be discussed individually rather than in existing threads for other games.
4. You may choose to have certain chapters or routes of a game translated.
5. The rate will be negotiated on a game-by-game basis based on an estimate of the work involved. Please be aware that translating an H-game takes a lot of time and work.
6. At the moment, I only accept paypal for commissions.
7. If in doubt about a game, post it anyway and I'll check it out and comment on it.
8. Contact me for further details/questions if necessary.


Also, basically as far as I understand he's been making patches for doujin games, if that makes any difference...
In my mind, anybody willing to pay commission for a game is most likely someone who will pay for the original game as well. While, I imagine a lot of people who download 'fan translations' are probably much less likely buying the game... Although if you're registered on the forum I imagine you are much more likely to be paying for these games anyways ;)
That's my guess/opinion.
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Unread postby exerron » January 24th, 2009, 1:42 am

Yes, you are right, of course, I won't need to pay for the completed patch, but it still doesn't feel right (to me, of course). Well, I don't want to (and obviously wouldn't be able to) stop anyone from donating, if they decide it's worthwile to do so.
(And well...I am a somewhat cheap guy, I don't really want to pay for translating as well...It costs a fortune to get the games here in East Europe, with transport fees and such...I know it will be free if enough money is donated, however, since I disagree with the whole thig and would also feel rather guilty for downloading it, whitout even considering the donation, i most probably won't get many of these patches.)
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Unread postby AlinSabel » January 24th, 2009, 1:51 am

Hey, it's how all the commercial stuff gets translated too. No difference, really. The translators get paid to work on stuff they wouldn't otherwise touch, and the customers pay for it.
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Unread postby Message » January 24th, 2009, 7:56 am

AlinSabel wrote:Hey, it's how all the commercial stuff gets translated too. No difference, really. The translators get paid to work on stuff they wouldn't otherwise touch, and the customers pay for it.

Except that commercial translations have the full permission and support of the original creators. That is most definitely NOT the case in this scenario.
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Unread postby DarkFusion » January 24th, 2009, 4:15 pm

Came across this on the legal/illegal subject matter by the site's owner, Nephirin, himself on another site:

"...I've been personally supporting the games I translate and even go beyond that (I'm in the process of ordering over $400 in games). I'm also under an affiliation program with dlsite that is giving them tons of hits and sales each month. Not only that, but I don't even use the money I earn from dlsite and have already given away over $60 in games and plan to do so again in the near future.

That said, there are *many* accomplished freelance manga translators out there who have been doing commissions for years and they have yet to run into any illegal trouble. You could even argue what *they* are doing is more illegal because they actually host and link to the mangas to download. I don't nor will host or link to pirated games.

That said, I've had talks with bvi22 (the maker of OAGT) and he's a nice guy, but I doubt he would object to me using a function in his program intended for the sole purpose of translating H-games. I am not selling his product nor anyone else's tools and plainly state when I use them (raziel2001au, for example, has generously offered his locale tools for me to use). I'm also considering working with bvi22 (aka paying him money) to make certain games compatible and/or adding functionality to OAGT.

The kirikiri tools that allow me to repackage .xp3 files are free for everyone to use. And again, I am not selling them.

The .xp3 tools are technically illegal by themselves because they break encryption (Lilith's games even include a file that says it's illegal to break them). So, you're free to criticize me there.

You could also argue that the script files I host are illegal, but I've already decided it's a necessary evil to do the work I do. It's a small technicality that could just as easily be applied to almost any fan-based related work. And again, I am not selling their work or the script file.

Lastly, let me be clear that every game that gets commissioned gets released to the public for free. I am not selling the games nor the translations themselves.

I would also like to note that my translation skills have significantly improved since my days of Asagi and I wouldn't be taking this step if I wasn't confident in my translation abilities.

I want to remain as transparent as possible about what I am doing so as to avoid any legal troubles."

So does anything he says have a point?
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Unread postby exerron » January 24th, 2009, 5:15 pm

All right, then,
It's not like I am saying that doing this is something completely immoral and "evil", and I certainly do not think, that ppl who do this are in it only for the money.
At the same time however, I don't like this method, and that is only my humble opinion, nothing else. It does not reassure me, that the guy will buy games for himself with the comissoned money or will pay for the development of the tools to do the translation (though the latter one is a noble thing to do, though I'm not really sure, that the original developers would be happy to hear of this). If he would actually send the money to the developers directly, and he himself would gain nothing from it, (though I don't really know if this is possible) then I would apploud him for his selflessness.
Again, It's not like I contemn him for doing this, or the manga translators for doing this, but whenever money is involved in something that is officially free, I can't help but become suspicious of any ulterrior motives. I guess I am paranoid...but I still don't like it personally.
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Unread postby AlinSabel » January 24th, 2009, 8:57 pm

Message wrote:
AlinSabel wrote:Hey, it's how all the commercial stuff gets translated too. No difference, really. The translators get paid to work on stuff they wouldn't otherwise touch, and the customers pay for it.

Except that commercial translations have the full permission and support of the original creators. That is most definitely NOT the case in this scenario.


Oh, I wasn't going in that direction. I was 'addressing' the argument that perhaps the translator wouldn't care enough about the game to do it justice.
Getting money from an already 'iffy' work... well, there is that problem. :P
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Unread postby inferno_flamex » January 25th, 2009, 2:35 am

AlinSabel wrote:
Message wrote:
AlinSabel wrote:Hey, it's how all the commercial stuff gets translated too. No difference, really. The translators get paid to work on stuff they wouldn't otherwise touch, and the customers pay for it.

Except that commercial translations have the full permission and support of the original creators. That is most definitely NOT the case in this scenario.


Oh, I wasn't going in that direction. I was 'addressing' the argument that perhaps the translator wouldn't care enough about the game to do it justice.
Getting money from an already 'iffy' work... well, there is that problem. :P


Hmm.. From my point of view..

Its like the translator is openly asking for 'donations' before actually translating the game... So.. in a way.. Yeah.. I guess it does mean commision.. up to the point of maybe even bribery...

Message does struck a point home here... I mean.. Even tho i know that mm does not accept donations.. But lets say they do and people actually wouldnt mind doing so.. (i would be one of them, even if the amount is small)... And this is only an example!

You can see it in a way that mm would translate FSN regardless if anyone donated. So in a way.. That is a 'true' donation... If there are any donators out there, it would be someone who had some cash to spare, and wants to treat the guys in mm a round of beer... for a good job well done and thanks.

But in this case? Well.. How should i put it..
I donno.. Its like those blokes you see on the street with the cardboard saying... "Will Translate VN & create patch for cash"... well.. kinda.. maybe not THAT bad... XDDDD

Maybe some people are open for it. And i must honestly admit that this is an idea that could in a way promote VNs.

But well... We'll see how it turns out. Honestly, i want to know the 'amount' needed for them to actually start the translation.. If its a very little amount, i would consider commisioning them.. Think of it as that 'treating to a round of beer' in advance... But if what they want is almost as much as getting the untranslated games.

Then hell no im not going to be a part of that..
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Unread postby lolipedofin » January 25th, 2009, 3:39 am

Promote VN ?? I dunno about that.... no matter how transparent he tries to be, the image of asking money in advance (be it paid before or after the work is done) wouldn't bode well with the majority of people.... I will not be the one to judge the justice behind this activity, what i want to say is, this practice would likely be unpopular among people, and may even be perceived as shady...
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Unread postby AlinSabel » January 25th, 2009, 4:44 am

It's better than that guy who did Ys the Oath in Felghana. He sold the patch. Still sells it, iirc.
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Unread postby Kid-Wolf » January 25th, 2009, 4:38 pm

lolipedofin wrote:Promote VN ?? I dunno about that.... no matter how transparent he tries to be, the image of asking money in advance (be it paid before or after the work is done) wouldn't bode well with the majority of people.... I will not be the one to judge the justice behind this activity, what i want to say is, this practice would likely be unpopular among people, and may even be perceived as shady...


Well he's the kicker I think. If he has some kind of a flat rate for donations to start working on the game, and have said product finished I would think he would want to collect the rest of his funds for doing something like that. Although, I hope it's not going to be something outrageous to te point where it would of been cheaper t get some random translated H-game online though.

Never the less it would be nice if he broadened his VN gendre since there are some games that just needs to be translated into Engrish at least some of them that I can think of.
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Unread postby DarkFusion » January 25th, 2009, 4:48 pm

LoSs wrote:
Elf Princess Nina (エルフ姫ニィーナ )

Both sucks.

If they like gore, than i would recommend Extravaganza, Mindead Blood, Gore Screaming Show or Gun-Katana.


Take a look at this (warning the translation sample image is from an ero scene, so adult content, you have been warned):

http://forum.darktranslations.com/viewt ... f=20&t=160
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