ayadew wrote:If you walked into the world, which I recommend you to do, you'll see SO much hate, suffering and poverty.
Oh, I see that everyday, alright. I've been mugged, I've seen a friend crawl on the floor feeling like shit after smoking who knows how many joints, I've seen another friend been stabbed in the leg, I've been harrassed by cops and seen numerous people drugged as hell with faces that couldn't even show an expression. Not to mention the people, old people and small children alike, walk the streets without shoes or proper clothing asking for money and scavanging whatever they can inside a trash can in search of something edible. I've personally seen almost daily how gruesome this world is and I still
disagree with some of the things you say.
That "oneness" that you mention isn't achevable today. Supposing that the idea is "perfect", which is not, the differences between societies are incredibly great to be surpassed in this generation, or even in the next or the one following the next one. It isn't doable. As Zwei (I think) mentioned earlier, the majority of the countries in this world are in a state of chaos and can't even be considered capable of striving for that idea. Look Latinamerica? The FARC are terrorists group that initially followed an ideal of communism or socialism, but then it deformed into mere terrorists groupd with bonds with narcotrafic groups. There are other countries that may very well have an armed revolution start in the next 10 to 15 years or the country could end up much
worse than it is right now. Look at Africa, the state of affairs is even worse there. Let's not even tak about education right now, how many children eat
there everyday? How many wars are fought there daily
? How is it that that people do to survive? not live, to survive
. What is their primary economy right now? Blood daimonds, iron, manganese, wood... Right now they can only exploit what they have. They are not great ports of trade, neither have enough education to sell technology developed there. They can't compete with the global market.
ayadew wrote:It was a good concept for a beginning, but it doesn't work on a global scale.
I agree completely. In fact, I've just given an explanaiton in how right you are. But that also means that we, the humanity as a whole, cannot strive for that "oneness" you mention. It's just not doable right now nor in the near future.
Trying to envision a future scenario where, somehow
, everyone is capable of being fed everyday and have "enough education" (how much is enough is subjective, I'll leave at that), in this scenario our descendants are capable of "striving for oneness", how do you strive for that? what do you do? do you meditate? do you participate in countless orgies? do you look for "that special one"? What else is there to do? Is that really enough to make my descendants feel "complete"? The look for happiness is really that subjective
NonExistence wrote:your brain accepts what your senses are telling it. you believe yourself to be happy because your brain accepts that specific emotion as happiness. so how can it not be subjective?
What he says is true. In the end we are all a bunch of matter, chemical elements with somewhat of a specific order functioning following the laws of nature, but how that bunch of atoms called brain work differs from one another. Take the people that suffer from hallucinations as an example. They are sure they saw someone walk in front of them, they can probably remember that person's face, they could have heard that person's voice and maybe they could have touched them too. But that is all false. Their brains aren't working properly, thus they sense something that is not real, that is not there and probably never existed to begin with. The same applides to "happinness", it is just a concept that differs from you to me, from country to country, from scoiety to society, from era to another era. We are different, what is happy for me may not be for you too. That "unconditional love" or "oneness" is something that may be incomprehensible to me or to somebody else, because I understand it differently and I feel different about it. My bunch of condensed matter called a brain may percieve another stimullus as happinnes than what yours does. In fact, I don't see the connection between "oneness" and "unconditional love" to begin with.
ayadew wrote:No human is inherently evil. If you do not believe this you cannot understand what I say.
We are taught from the beginning that we must be greedy to survive - it's so brutally programmed into us that it takes much will to break lose from this train of thinking.
The world is built that way currently. Why do you think nationalists even exists? Because they're taught to.
This only further proves my point. The nationalists may find their happiness in living for their country, dying for it and rising their children towards that same protocol. It's their
happiness. Can you say that it is flawed or wrong? It is for me, but is it for you? Is it to the random user roaming the net? is it to your parents? to mine? to that person walking in front of your house? It is, after all, relative
ayadew wrote:Economy isn't the base of the world, it's created by greed. Greed is created by uncertainty and fear of other people.
I don't see how economy creates
fear and hatred. It is one of the paths that it can take, yes, but it's not a natural path. As you say, and I agree, there is no human inherently evil, economy by itself isn't evil. It's a system created by humans, it is expected to have flaws.
And I really, really, really
fail to see how esoteric mumbo-jumbo could help humanity develop. Please, explain about that.
P.S: Just for the record, I don't agree with the current economic system the world has right now. It sucks baaaad. Example is the global crisis we are at. It's human made, created because of debt. If there wasn't an economic system like this, we could ignore it and move one. If the concept of debt wasn't like the one we currently have (interests: if you don't pay me in time you have to pay me more later) we wouldn't be in this shithole.
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.