Learning Japanese

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Learning Japanese

Unread postby metal_cocoabo » November 10th, 2008, 4:13 pm

The thread's title is pretty much self-explanatory. Well, I'm thinking of learning jap mainly because its interesting to learn another language from your own (and not to mention being to play all the VNs I want without waiting for a translation.) And you never know where your knowledge of the language may lead you after all. It's also nice to brag that you know 4+ languages.

So, I'm asking your experiences in learning the language. I've got the hiragana and katakana down but is it that painful to learn all those kanji? How did you learn it in the first place? How long did it take you guys to be able to comprehend a sentence? And, did you guys manage to actually learn how to speak it fluently?

Don't be shy and brag about it: your hours of drawing those intricate little characters, twisting your tongue and reading all those books. It can help give others out there who want to learn the language a bit of a boost -- and, who knows, some of the people here may end up translating some things as well. :twisted:
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Unread postby gmsephiroth » November 10th, 2008, 5:14 pm

Yes, I'd also like to hear about other's expirience with the language...Japanese is the third language I'm looking to add to my list of learned languages.
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Unread postby Message » November 10th, 2008, 6:59 pm

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Unread postby nanaya_shinya » November 12th, 2008, 6:15 am

metal_cocoabo wrote:So, I'm asking your experiences in learning the language. I've got the hiragana and katakana down but is it that painful to learn all those kanji? How did you learn it in the first place? How long did it take you guys to be able to comprehend a sentence? And, did you guys manage to actually learn how to speak it fluently?


Learning the kana's is pretty much easy, the Kanji however ARE a pain to learn (specially those with more than 5 strokes). I learn my Japanese by pure self-study. I could comprehend a sentence just 6 months after starting. I have been chatting with my own "Aoko-Sensei" to improve my Japanese.
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Unread postby lolipedofin » November 12th, 2008, 8:35 am

lol at Message's reply... hahaha, this is like the hundredth thread of learning Japanese...

neway, I hate myself for being a retard when it comes to autodidactism.... never mind, when i got back to Jakarta at December, I'm gonna spend the whole month studying Japanese with my cute sensei :oops: .
Uchi kaeru....
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Unread postby Tsubasa » November 12th, 2008, 1:29 pm

Easiest way to learn Japanese
Study the character systems(Hiragana, Katakana, Kanji)
Study Vocabulary.
Watch Japanese shows, read Japanese literature.

Bam.
Or at least that's my group of friends methods. After you learn 1st bench - kindergarten to 1st grade - Japanese it's a cake walk.
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Unread postby I1nk » November 13th, 2008, 3:28 am

There can never be too many posts about a topic. Anyway I been having trouble learning it. I got that fancy Rosetta stone still having trouble. (I am just learning way to slow for my liking. Well I guess it is because I am an impatient person. The comm. lies... J/K) This is one tough cookie to break in too for me.
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Unread postby metal_cocoabo » November 16th, 2008, 12:28 pm

The daunting part for me is the tons of kanji that you have to memorize... o_O
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Unread postby Tsubasa » November 16th, 2008, 4:25 pm

The minimum required Kanji to live a easy life, in Japan, is 1000. OR last I remember it was, maybe it might be more along the lines of 1500 now.

There is a system to how Kanji is written and read so it's not as hard as one would think. Besides the more you use something the faster you'll recognize it.

On a side note I found a fun little tool to brush up on vocab or learn some small time Japanese.

My Japanese Coach, it's a DS game. It has from what I can tell(since I've only made it to lesson 26 or so at this point) about 1000 words and phrases with mini-games to help you practice both speech recognition and writing recognition. Not to mention it requires you to earn enough "points" to say you've mastered the vocab before moving onto the next lesson and vocab set.
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Unread postby Undream » November 16th, 2008, 4:47 pm

Tsubasa wrote:
My Japanese Coach, it's a DS game. It has from what I can tell(since I've only made it to lesson 26 or so at this point) about 1000 words and phrases with mini-games to help you practice both speech recognition and writing recognition. Not to mention it requires you to earn enough "points" to say you've mastered the vocab before moving onto the next lesson and vocab set.



I might get that, but for now is the Rosetta Stone for me, coupled with some Human Japanese for good measure
"...One must wait continuously, one must pursue endlessly.
They must realize that it was impossible to succeed yet
at the same time be capable of enduring patiently.
Is that... the story of a dream that shouldn't be waited upon?..."
Last Episode
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Unread postby nanaya_shinya » November 16th, 2008, 5:03 pm

And I quote a friend of mine...

"To survive living in Japan as a kid, you need to pass at least level 4 JLPT.
To survive living in Japan as a teen, you need to pass at least level 3 JLPT.
To survive living in Japan as an adult, you need to pass at least level 2 JLPT.

Either that, or stick to English and hope for the best that they could understand you."
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Unread postby lolipedofin » November 16th, 2008, 6:51 pm

My Japanese teacher... she studied Japanese literature as her major... Even with that, she still struggle when it comes to reading newspaper... It's not a hard language, true... but those kanji are everest. Now I wonder just how much tougher it is to take up Mandarin....
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Unread postby NonExistence » November 16th, 2008, 10:51 pm

lolipedofin wrote:My Japanese teacher... she studied Japanese literature as her major... Even with that, she still struggle when it comes to reading newspaper... It's not a hard language, true... but those kanji are everest. Now I wonder just how much tougher it is to take up Mandarin....


not to brag (well, yes to brag), but i lol. repeatedly.

now if only i can understand the kanas and have a jap. vocab. that's bigger than, oh, 20 words?
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Unread postby Tsubasa » November 17th, 2008, 2:50 am

NonExistence wrote:
lolipedofin wrote:My Japanese teacher... she studied Japanese literature as her major... Even with that, she still struggle when it comes to reading newspaper... It's not a hard language, true... but those kanji are everest. Now I wonder just how much tougher it is to take up Mandarin....


not to brag (well, yes to brag), but i lol. repeatedly.

now if only i can understand the kanas and have a jap. vocab. that's bigger than, oh, 20 words?

That's not hard to do.
Katakana is the easiest of the 3 systems to learn all you need to know is the American ways of recognizing which is which. i.e. シ(shi) - "She" is Smiling.
Or you can take the slightly harder route and just learn them by recognition and repeated writing practice.
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Unread postby zweiterversuch » November 17th, 2008, 3:02 am

Tsubasa wrote:
NonExistence wrote:
lolipedofin wrote:My Japanese teacher... she studied Japanese literature as her major... Even with that, she still struggle when it comes to reading newspaper... It's not a hard language, true... but those kanji are everest. Now I wonder just how much tougher it is to take up Mandarin....


not to brag (well, yes to brag), but i lol. repeatedly.

now if only i can understand the kanas and have a jap. vocab. that's bigger than, oh, 20 words?

That's not hard to do.
Katakana is the easiest of the 3 systems to learn all you need to know is the American ways of recognizing which is which. i.e. シ(shi) - "She" is Smiling.
Or you can take the slightly harder route and just learn them by recognition and repeated writing practice.


Katakana is the lightest?
hmmm....

I have always thought Hiragana was the lightest one. All symbols in katakana look alike ("N" looks like "SO". "TSU" looks like "SHI". "HU" Looks like..."U" and "WA". "KU" and "TA" are alike too..."NA" and "CHI" resemble each other too... etc etc...)
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Unread postby nanaya_shinya » November 17th, 2008, 6:01 am

zweiterversuch wrote:
Katakana is the lightest?
hmmm....

I have always thought Hiragana was the lightest one. All symbols in katakana look alike ("N" looks like "SO". "TSU" looks like "SHI". "HU" Looks like..."U" and "WA". "KU" and "TA" are alike too..."NA" and "CHI" resemble each other too... etc etc...)


Sooner or later, someone is bound to mention the usage of "zu" and "du". Oh wait, I just did. lol
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Unread postby Tsubasa » November 17th, 2008, 11:00 am

@zweiterversuch: さ き ち ら れ ね る ろ は ほ ま あ お に こ ぬ め
Hiragana has just as many characters that look alike。
The reason Katakana is the easiest to learn is because it has more angles than curves and making them more defined than hiragana. It's a lot harder to screw up writing a katakana character versus a hiragana character.
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Unread postby zweiterversuch » November 17th, 2008, 12:39 pm

Tsubasa wrote:@zweiterversuch: さ き ち ら れ ね る ろ は ほ ま あ お に こ ぬ め
Hiragana has just as many characters that look alike。
The reason Katakana is the easiest to learn is because it has more angles than curves and making them more defined than hiragana. It's a lot harder to screw up writing a katakana character versus a hiragana character.




...OH! you are right!...

Well, I think it isn't the same for all people. A friend of mine even thinks Kanji are a lot easier than the Hiragana and Katakana system...
(note: he studies synologie...(chinese studies..or something like that...)
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Unread postby Tsubasa » November 17th, 2008, 12:59 pm

Thats a given anyone that studies Chinese will adapt easily to Japanese's Kanji.
The kanji system is a sister system to the Chinese. There are only a few differences here and there between most characters, i.e. 天 means heaven in Japanese but in Chinese means Sky.

Besides the point Kanji isn't hard to learn, it's just hard to remember. The system to understanding what anyone particular Kanji means is easy enough though.
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Unread postby zweiterversuch » November 17th, 2008, 1:22 pm

Tsubasa wrote:Thats a given anyone that studies Chinese will adapt easily to Japanese's Kanji.
The kanji system is a sister system to the Chinese. There are only a few differences here and there between most characters, i.e. 天 means heaven in Japanese but in Chinese means Sky.

Besides the point Kanji isn't hard to learn, it's just hard to remember. The system to understanding what anyone particular Kanji means is easy enough though.



well, there are still some problems with the composita. For example: TEGAMI means in japanese letter, right? but it means toilet paper in chinese. ( I mean the kanji for tegami not the pronunciation.
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