The end of piracy? (For Canada and the G8, anyways)

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The end of piracy? (For Canada and the G8, anyways)

Unread postby WingZero » June 13th, 2008, 2:53 am

Anyone here know about what Odex pulled back in '07 in Singapore?

They subpoena'd the ISPs into giving them client records to see who downloaded subbed anime off the internet, and then proceeded to send e-mails to these people asking them to pay money or be sued for copyright infringement.

Well, the next G8 summit's gonna probably bring a couple of the countries the same thing, except this time it'll be government enforced and not just an anime distribution company with subpar localizations looking for a quick buck.

Details here:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/20 ... t-in-japan

tl;dr: Canadian govenment is considering amending Canada's copyright law to give a $500 fine per illegal download of copyrighted materials (songs, movies, anime, etc. etc.). Also, if the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement passes at the next month's G8 summit, ISPs will be required to hand over client information to the government to aid in the charges.
(The original article in the National Post has a bit more details than the ann one)

Given the rate at which democracy operates, I'd say if any changes are made, they'd probably come in effect early 2009 at the earliest.

What does everyone think about this? Effective method to deal with piracy/copyright infringement?

Personally, I can't see anything good coming out of this.

Just like with the whole DRM crap, I don't see how this could end up working any better. Assuming the ISPs play along like good boys and girls and just hand over all the information to the government, it won't be long before someone somewhere finds a way around this ("BitTorrent Gen2"). And after that, this will probably just spread globally and make it even harder for other countries to control their piracy.

All I'm saying is, if these changes come to pass, all that's gonna happen is that in a few years, somebody somewhere's gonna be making a lot of money out of "anonymous file sharing"--and it's not gonna be the government--and we'd be no better off than today in terms of the ubiquity of piracy.

What's everyone's take on this?
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Unread postby lolipedofin » June 13th, 2008, 4:37 am

Whoa... this is a surprising news....

Hmm... i guess, something has to be done about piracy after all... Me myself don't like the idea of my internet activity being closely monitored by the government. I thougt most countries are aware of the rights for privacy, while this bill will surely act against piracy, it will in the same time infringe the rights of people.

I personally hate the idea of this.... as someone that still unable to support oneself, i sometimes rely on warez to get stuffs, not all, but some.

And i agree with Wingzero, give it a couple of months, and someone will come up with the next best thing after bittorrent. This might hurt Piracy business a little bit, but there's no eliminating the practice.... Just like other crimes, humanity advances for thousand of years, but people still kill, steal, raid, rape, etc. Someone will come up with something new, i dare to bet on it...

There is only one way to minimize this practice is, and it's simple... Improve economy, raise the standard of living of every people of every countries in the world, and have softwares sold at cheaper price.... Oh wait?! That's what those so called government trying to achieve but never make it, huh??
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Unread postby Phlebas » June 13th, 2008, 5:40 am

That's just about the most awful idea I've heard for a while, and would serve no other purpose but to possibly temporarily give more money to the media companies (which I suppose is all they care about). The radical criminalization of a broad concept of warez is pretty laughable (even fansubbed anime? lol). I doubt the proposal will fly anywhere except maybe Canada, since not every country shares the view of the media houses.
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Unread postby abscess » June 13th, 2008, 6:53 am

In my country you can find pirated products out in broad day light in local plazas and parks. The cops aren't that much interested in that stuff either and even get in agreements with the "pirateers" (or whatever name they are given). Sure there are those "raids" and such where they close the stores and sometimes some guys end up in jail (the ones that didn't have any agreements with the cops are usually the ones that get jailed) but, what do you think happens to the products? the cops keep 'em.... so much for "to serve and protect" or "at your service always" or whatever the local motto is....

In my case I'm not too concerned about that happening in this country (for better or for worse). And if, somehow, we end up getting axed with that stuff, the "Anon Group" will surely find an easy way out.
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Unread postby Ciel » June 13th, 2008, 9:44 am

In my country you can find pirated products out in broad day light in local plazas and parks. The cops aren't that much interested in that stuff either and even get in agreements with the "pirateers" (or whatever name they are given). Sure there are those "raids" and such where they close the stores and sometimes some guys end up in jail (the ones that didn't have any agreements with the cops are usually the ones that get jailed) but, what do you think happens to the products? the cops keep 'em.... so much for "to serve and protect" or "at your service always" or whatever the local motto is....
Exactly the same here, except the bribery is much more frequent. Hell, they even suggest that. You can find such stuff almost everywhere, ranging from "cheap movies" that cost around $1 each to games and other things.

and hell, if that silly law ever passes, eventually new isp providers "that care for their customers instead of the government and their shit" might pop up that won't use such things and advertise that to get/steal customers from those that do.
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Unread postby idontknoW » June 13th, 2008, 10:53 am

1. Expensive stuff shows up
2. piracy then shows up
3. anti-piracy attempts follow
4. Go back to 1.

That's how this whole thing works and it'll never end.

The only thing that makes this bad though is that it increases consumer annoyance, things like DRM, high restrictions and even to the point of breach of privacy are the side effects of this loop.

If they do kill piracy, I believe that the industry will kill at least half (or more) of the potential market for their own products, but then again the other option would kill their profits anyway.
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Unread postby abscess » June 13th, 2008, 5:58 pm

Ciel wrote:Exactly the same here, except the bribery is much more frequent. Hell, they even suggest that. You can find such stuff almost everywhere, ranging from "cheap movies" that cost around $1 each to games and other things.

Hahahah! are you sure you are in Poland and not in my country? j/k The thing is that some of the times the cops here practically DEMAND you to pay some cash to them in order to "keep you out of trouble", else you are a "suspect" and are treated like a criminal.

Ciel wrote:and hell, if that silly law ever passes, eventually new isp providers "that care for their customers instead of the government and their shit" might pop up that won't use such things and advertise that to get/steal customers from those that do.

I'm not too sure about that in this country :? The companies here always try to have a good relationship with the current "government" (that hasn't changed much the past 20 years, really) and there are very few ISPs companies around too.
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Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby Ciel » June 13th, 2008, 6:26 pm

Well that'd certainly be a good business opportunity at least. Because when you have to choose, will you go with those that were around for long, but will pry into your privacy and send your private data to others, or someone who's new, but will respect it and not do anything?
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Unread postby DarkRedSky » June 13th, 2008, 9:56 pm

I've read about the new copyright laws. I think that, there will be a discussion about it but if it passes it's not gonna stay for long. Well I can't predict anything, I'm sure we've all downloaded something once in our life. If my ISP was to keep track of my internet connection and my downloads, I'd switch. I think it's stupid how the government prioritizes copyright laws before many things.

I'm pretty sure, a large proportion of the internet would crumble if the law was passed.

Also I'm pretty sure if the law is passed. Immediately it will be election time again. And I'm sure the current prime minister doesn't want to lose.
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Unread postby WingZero » June 13th, 2008, 10:32 pm

Yeah actually, there's a bit of confusion here (I myself wasn't sure on this when I made the thread), so let me clear something up.

Canada has ALREADY passed the new copyright law (in fact it's already in effect), the thing that's being "considered" is the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA) at next month's G8 summit.

The changes to Canadian copyright law basically include two major points:

1. Copyright infringement in the form of owning pirated content can result in fines of C$500 per file and copyright holders may sue for between C$500 to C$20,000 per file depending on losses incurred (the latter part is mostly for illegal uploading).
2. Circumvention of DRM or any software limitation/security measures and illegal uploading can result in fines of up to C$20,000 and copyright holders may further sue for losses incurred

Basically, that's not too much worse than what it was before. In the 1997 Copyright Act, owning illegal content (in any form that's not "music") can result in fines up to C$20,000; the new bill reduces the amount to C$500 per file (The copyright holders may sue part is pretty much the same, and counts for little as most companies don't sue)

It's #2 that's stupid. Basically, it's like the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) in U.S. Years ago, U.S. went daringly into uncharted lands with their DMCA, and daring it was, but it does not detract at all from how asinine it is--and now Canada's come up with basically a carbon copy, which is even more stupid because people are supposed to learn from mistakes, not copy them.

Basically, you can't make a legal backed up copy of your legitimately purchased CD if there's DRM/copy protection scheme in there to prevent you from doing so (This is in direct contradiction to consumer rights under EULA) and furthermore, if there is copy-protection on the CD that disallows copying, then even if you do a copy-paste onto your harddrive or attempt to put it (if it is music) on your iPod, that is copyright infringement and you will be fined C$20,000 if caught.

Seriously, I know that someone somewhere in the U.S. music industry decided that the best way to deal with all this digital pirating hooplah is to sue the customers, but I thought it was generally agreed (even amongst Americans) that the DMCA is pretty stupid. Why the hell would the Harper government decide that it'd work any better in Canada?
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Unread postby Atriel » June 14th, 2008, 1:11 am

tEH pIraCY cants be kiled!!
Nor cans it die if kiLLEd!!


Seriously, it's just funny. Time and resources will be used on something tthat can't be stopped.
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Unread postby Cat Megex » June 14th, 2008, 1:25 am

Atriel wrote:tEH pIraCY cants be kiled!!
Nor cans it die if kiLLEd!!


What if Shirou kills it?
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Unread postby Ciel » June 14th, 2008, 1:48 am

shirou? don't you mean shiki? shirou is too goody two shoes to kill things, especially unrelated to him.

Ryogi Shiki at least. Tohno's brains would explode before he comprehended the idea.
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Unread postby Cat Megex » June 14th, 2008, 2:02 am

Ciel wrote:shirou? don't you mean shiki? shirou is too goody two shoes to kill things, especially unrelated to him.

Ryogi Shiki at least. Tohno's brains would explode before he comprehended the idea.


I was sort of relating back to the "People die when they are killed" quote. >_>
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Unread postby Ciel » June 14th, 2008, 7:22 am

yeah i know, but still shirou wouldn't want to, he's a moralfag. :P

if something he'd be there to defend it, saying people die when they're killed.
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Unread postby abscess » June 14th, 2008, 11:24 pm

Ciel wrote:yeah i know, but still shirou wouldn't want to, he's a moralfag. :P

if something he'd be there to defend it, saying people die when they're killed.

Wasn't it "people die if they are killed"?
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
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Unread postby Ciel » June 15th, 2008, 12:44 am

Details.
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Unread postby Raitei » June 15th, 2008, 12:58 am

abscess wrote:
Ciel wrote:yeah i know, but still shirou wouldn't want to, he's a moralfag. :P

if something he'd be there to defend it, saying people die when they're killed.

Wasn't it "people die if they are killed"?
the anime certainly did say "people die if they are killed."
TJ's translation seems to use "people die when they are killed", though. I personally like the latter; it gives a sense of certainty. :lol:
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Unread postby Atvaark » June 23rd, 2008, 11:20 am

given how easy it is to hijack someone else's wireless connection and remain hidden, i can see a lot of unprotected networks billed for anime downloading...
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Unread postby DrmChsr0 » July 8th, 2008, 1:32 am

will the rivers run red with the blood of innocents?

If not, I'm not even noticing.

Please, not more money-grabbing attempts. can't the companies be serious about copyrights for once and demand that all IP be treated like physical property?

That means IP owners can choose to kill infringers. Unless they want to go down that path i'm not even going to bat an eyelid.
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