Non-TypeMoon VN questions and recommendations

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Atriel
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Unread post by Atriel » June 9th, 2008, 6:16 pm

Ohhh... Ever 17?
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Not really spoilers, just some thoughts.

abscess
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Unread post by abscess » June 9th, 2008, 8:31 pm

Tearmorph wrote:You should also check out OMGWTFOTL. it should teach you everything you need to know about genuflection... maybe not.
its free and can be donwloaded on Insani's site http://insani.org/omgwtfotl.html

synopsis copied from site:
"GENUFLECT OR DIE! Now, finally, the lunatic novel game which received enthusiastic applause from ... an incredibly small number of rabid Japanese fans ... comes to invade the English-speaking world! This piece will have you going OMG, WTF, and OTL all at once -- and as such it is entirely not appropriate for those under the age of 18 or those with delicate sensibilities. Consider: at different times, it features things like tentacle beast rape, kamikaze suicide attacks, and clubbing baby bears to death with crowbars. Proceed with utmost caution."
Whaaa?! Clubin' baby bears to death with Gordon Freeman's fave weapon?? DAMN! I have to read that! well... next week, perhaps.
Message wrote:
abscess wrote:There is a 2003 re-release or remake or something that, again as far as I know, is the whole package.
I really don't think there ever was another translation from Himeya after...
Yeah, I think that the '97 ver was the only one ever translated in english, at least by a company. I'd actually would like to know if there is a fan translation of it or a project on it.
Message wrote:whatever their last title was, a long time ago. Technically they didn't go bankrupt as they were part of C's Ware, but they told me they lost too much money on those translations to want to try it again.
Yeh, that's to be expected. I never actually thought there would be a real market for this kind of product outside of Japan.
Message wrote:Also as far as I know the EVE series are, in fact, non-ero. ADAM The Double Factor was the only erotic game in the series, and it was considered by the fans to be a huge flop. Aren't you confused with EVE The Fatal Attraction, the 2001 non-ero remake of ADAM TDF?
Wait.... are you saying I could have played the '97 ver without really missing anything....? *twitch* Oh... I see.... *twitch* I feel.... betrayed...
DAMN YOU!! MESSED UP MEMORY OF MINE!!! DAMN YOU!!!!!
Message wrote:Anyway, you people forgot Divi-Dead. Bad translation, horrible ero, but freaky mindtrip story.
Yea... *twitch* I'll have to... edit... *twitch* *twitch*
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.

Phoenician
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Unread post by Phoenician » June 9th, 2008, 11:53 pm

In Ever17, only
► Show Spoiler
ending matters
► Show Spoiler
"Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." George Bernard Shaw
"Genius is born--not paid." Oscar Wilde
"Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind." Leonardo Da Vinci

Miraploy
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Unread post by Miraploy » June 9th, 2008, 11:56 pm

Atriel wrote:Ohhh... Ever 17?
Overall, while i think Ever 17 is good there are some holes in it for me. (Like said ending) Or some plain dumb stuff.
What holes? If there are anything you don't get I can probably explain them.

@ayadew's comment on Tsugumi, lol. Have to echo Phlebas here, you've seen nothing yet. :wink:

I would also advise you (all) off divi-dead, it might've been good for its time as the first ever porn game with a story... but it's a stupid story with a boooorrring interface. 5/10

Yume Miru Kusuri is also a fairly poor (mediocre?) game, I would give it a 7/10 at most.

Eve Burst I tried to play, but I got stuck somewhere, and despites my attempts to finish it, I just counldn't. I was perhaps halfway through the game, but wasn't terribly impressed, what I did play I wish I hadn't.

My ratings scale:

Ever17: 10
Tsukihime - Crescendo: 9
Fate/Stay Night - Narcissu: 8

Shikiller
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Unread post by Shikiller » June 10th, 2008, 1:17 am

Is crescendo that good? i have to try it.
Also it seems you haven't played Planetarian. I think is above or as good as Narcissu.

my rating scales

Ever 17 = Clannad > Tsukihime > Air > Planetarian = Narcissu= True Remembrance > FSN= F/HA > Kagetsu Toyha.

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Unread post by Phoenician » June 10th, 2008, 2:03 am

Shikiller wrote:my rating scales

Ever 17 > FSN > Tsukihime > Clannad = Air = True Remembrance > F/HA = Kagetsu Toyha > Planetarian = Narcissu
Fix'd
"Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." George Bernard Shaw
"Genius is born--not paid." Oscar Wilde
"Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind." Leonardo Da Vinci

WingZero
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Unread post by WingZero » June 10th, 2008, 3:01 am

Why are you fixing OTHER people's personal preference?

Raitei
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Unread post by Raitei » June 10th, 2008, 3:03 am

WingZero wrote:Why are you fixing OTHER people's personal preference?
'cause that's the point of FIXING. own subjective opinions are compulsory :lol:

try divi-dead, buddy. storyline's poorer than tsukihime, but still spookier :wink:
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence

abscess
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Unread post by abscess » June 10th, 2008, 4:10 am

WingZero wrote:Why are you fixing OTHER people's personal preference?
Now now, don't get angry. He/she/it was most likely just joking, relax mate! :) Anyway. Yeah, I tried to play Divi-dead once a long, long, L[O^(n+1)]NG where n -> infinity of time ago.... Well, maybe not that long :? well, at any rate, a freind lent it to me once when my PC at the time couldn't run it properly so, I didn't even try to play it. After that the guy disappeared and I was never able to find the game again.... Is there a place where I can get it?
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.

lolipedofin
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Unread post by lolipedofin » June 10th, 2008, 4:14 am

Shikiller wrote:Is crescendo that good? i have to try it.
No it's not.... I don't even think Japanese Otakus will remember the game. It's just happen to be the first eroge localized into US market that actually have some meaningful story instead of a playboy wannabe keep banging and firing on all cylinder....

The first time i played it, i was also, "Holy Shit!! This is awesome!! Why can't there be more titles like this!!??" But after playing F/SN, Tsukihime, Utawarerumono, Wind, and the likes... It's just incomparable....

The art is very shoujo-ish, and the story also quite shoujo-ish... no complicated stuffs, no mindfucker, just sweet romantic story.... It's a good game and i still recommend it... But i just don't think it's in the same level as other Hit Eroge that no developer gonna brought it into English Audience because of the lengthy translation work.


Btw, is Ever 17 that good?? I only played midway through.... But are u seriously saying that the game is better than F/SN and CLANNAD ??
Uchi kaeru....

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Unread post by Phoenician » June 10th, 2008, 4:30 am

Divi-dead, I played through game a few times, without guide I could only get the
► Show Spoiler
had to use kouryaku for the other one(s)
"Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives." A. Sachs
"Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh." George Bernard Shaw
"Genius is born--not paid." Oscar Wilde
"Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind." Leonardo Da Vinci

Message
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Unread post by Message » June 10th, 2008, 6:55 am

Miraploy wrote:I would also advise you (all) off divi-dead, it might've been good for its time as the first ever porn game with a story... but it's a stupid story with a boooorrring interface. 5/10
I really like the game, and I *HATE* ero content. Go figure. It's a game you need to play in a certain state of mind. For starters, at night with the lights down and the sound up would help... The game's strong points are the atmosphere of the story, the graphics and the audio. Yes, midi can be good, and playing with voices makes the game all that eerier. And then there's the double-u-tee-effness of having no clue what it's all about, if that's your thing.
The game's weak points are fubar translation, fubar eroscenes, still a bit of ye olde think/look/talk interface... And generally being so old it doesn't really measure up to modern expectations in any way.
abscess wrote:I was never able to find the game again.... Is there a place where I can get it?
It's gone out of print years ago, but the last few copies are still for sale at HimeyaShop for a pittance: Only ten bucks. That becomes 29 bucks including shipping, but I've been unable to find it elsewhere. Perhaps something to add to an existing Himeya order.
lolipedofin wrote:
Shikiller wrote:Is crescendo that good? i have to try it.
No it's not.... I don't even think Japanese Otakus will remember the game. It's just happen to be the first eroge localized into US market that actually have some meaningful story instead of a playboy wannabe keep banging and firing on all cylinder....
I think you're forgetting about Kana ~imouto~ there. Which is much better than Crescendo anyway, ask Taka.

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Unread post by Henduluin » June 10th, 2008, 7:09 am

Message wrote: I think you're forgetting about Kana ~imouto~ there. Which is much better than Crescendo anyway, ask Taka.
Taka is biased, as the game has the word "imouto" in it.

@Atriel

Go read Coco's story. It'll plug up any holes in the game you might think that are there.
The meaning of life is to give life meaning.

Miraploy
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Unread post by Miraploy » June 10th, 2008, 2:58 pm

lolipedofin wrote:
Shikiller wrote:Is crescendo that good? i have to try it.
No it's not.... I don't even think Japanese Otakus will remember the game. It's just happen to be the first eroge localized into US market that actually have some meaningful story instead of a playboy wannabe keep banging and firing on all cylinder....

The first time i played it, i was also, "Holy Shit!! This is awesome!! Why can't there be more titles like this!!??" But after playing F/SN, Tsukihime, Utawarerumono, Wind, and the likes... It's just incomparable....
It is incomparable, because they're not even in the same genre.

Crescendo is a realistic, character-driven, romance. Everything else you described are fantasy/adventure games.

You're comparing Jane Eyre to Lord of the Rings, sorry, but it doesn't work. You're just showing your bias for complex plot twists and action over what is ultimately greater development and more realistic characters.

FSN? better than tsukihime? Phoenician you're joking right? :shock:

I think Kana ~imouto~ is overrated. As a romance Crescendo trumps it, and as anything else, well it doesn't work as anything else.

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Unread post by lolipedofin » June 10th, 2008, 3:19 pm

Miraploy wrote:
lolipedofin wrote:I don't even think Japanese Otakus will remember the game (Crescendo). It's just happen to be the first eroge localized into US market that actually have some meaningful story instead of a playboy wannabe keep banging and firing on all cylinder....

The first time i played it, i was also, "Holy Shit!! This is awesome!! Why can't there be more titles like this!!??" But after playing F/SN, Tsukihime, Utawarerumono, Wind, and the likes... It's just incomparable....
It is incomparable, because they're not even in the same genre.

Crescendo is a realistic, character-driven, romance. Everything else you described are fantasy/adventure games.

You're comparing Jane Eyre to Lord of the Rings, sorry, but it doesn't work. You're just showing your bias for complex plot twists and action over what is ultimately greater development and more realistic characters.
Well, it is opinion, so it bound to be biased... but i did judge them coolheadedly and as objective as i could... i guess it depends on personal base...

Don't misunderstand me, i also love Crescendo, but after i opened my eyes to how varied eroge truly are, i just felt there's a lot better eroge out there.

I just compared it to F/SN as the one most people here familiar with... Artwise, Story, Music, plot, reputation&popularity, i just think F/SN is better... But if you want comparison in the same genre... Let's compare it to CLANNAD then.. or Kanon, they were out around the same time. Personally i think the comparison is like a teenlit novel to Shakespeare's "Romeo & Juliet". Sorry if the comparison is too drastic... don't know much love novel.. ;p

Message wrote:I think you're forgetting about Kana ~imouto~ there. Which is much better than Crescendo anyway, ask Taka.
God! How can i forgot Kana Imouto... yup, totally agree with you. This is the first best thing to be brought into the English Eroge scene. It's just happened that i played this game long time ago, way before Crescendo, back when i bought eroge just to ******* (feel free to fill the blank). I remember there's a scene in Crescendo that made reference to Kana Imouto, i cried when i remembered the scene that it referred to... lol.
Uchi kaeru....

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Unread post by Miraploy » June 10th, 2008, 4:27 pm

Romeo and Juliet, heh, it's not even that good.

Crescendo is far too mature to be called teenlit (not in hentai, but in theme). Again, Romeo and Juliette and Crescendo are not in the same genre. Crescendo is a realistic modern romance, R&J is a fairy tale (quite literally, it's an Elizabethan adaptation of an ancient children's story).

Both R&J and FSN are highly situational and plot driven, aka sitdrama, while Crescendo is mainly internal and character based.

I think it's just that you're heavily favoring the former... Which is fine, sometimes when the plot is well done and wonderful (like in Ever17 or Tsukihime), it can produce something great, and a lot of times character driven stories are boring as heck. But I don't think you understand Crescendo, outside of the literary canon it's one of the best examples of the character-romance genre.

Edit: It's good that you like Crescendo, but I find it annoying when you say something like, FSN or Uta (what trash... 6/10), is better than it. A side-by-side comparison is impossible since they are so thematically different, so the only way to judge them is to grade how good each is on its own merit. If you like FSN or Uta more, then it simply means you think big monsters are cooler than realistic character development.

It's just really obvious that FSN/Uta, etc are escapism meant for kids, while it's far less so in Crescendo.

Am I making sense?

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Unread post by Raitei » June 10th, 2008, 5:03 pm

okay, I see that this has turned out to be an argument based on one's taste, which is pointless. as previous evidences have shown, there's no point in arguing about a person's preferrence. I know I'm not in position to talk since I haven't even played crescendo yet, but miraploy, can you please restrain yourself from jumping on someone's ass just because s/he doesn't agree with you? I mean, you cannot force someone to like orange when s/he doesn't, can you? ;)

what you're talking about makes sense, really. but then again, we're talking about tastes here. if you find that good, then fine, recommend it; that's what this thread for. ;)

ps : I have nothing against you, just wanna point out that there's really no need to argue about tastes ;)
one can like or dislike something; that's up to him ;)
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I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence

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Unread post by Phlebas » June 10th, 2008, 5:12 pm

@Miraploy
Personally I don't think epics are any more escapisque than light novels; as for saying F/SN and Uta (which are both R-rated games) are for kids, heh.

Also it seems like a misreading to compare Crescendo to Romeo and Juliette when the analogue was [Romeo and Juliette] is to [a teenage novel] what [F/SN] is to [Crescendo] (you can argue against the suitability of the analogue, but the original argument does not contrast Crescendo to Romeo and Juliette). From what you're saying ("Both R&J and FSN are highly situational and plot driven, aka sitdrama, while Crescendo is mainly internal and character based.") it seems you in fact support the analogue. Sophistry yes, but I find misdirected arguments vexing.

You certainly have a valid point of some people preferring fantasy/sci-fi over drama, although the lines are written in water.

p.s. Haven't played Crescendo either, so have no personal opinion about how good it may be.

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Unread post by lolipedofin » June 10th, 2008, 5:18 pm

Sorry for The Romeo and Juliet comparison... i just don't know too much English literary that romance heavy... But one thing though... R&J is good. If you have time to enjoy Shakespeare work in the old language he used to write, i think you could appreciate his work more... My fave so far is Julius Caesar. Btw, i didn't compare Crescendo to R&J, i compared it to "Kanon".

back to topic, I can really understand where you are coming from, Me myself really love the theme Crescendo brought, high school romance drama, with all the mixtures, a close friend and classmate, a kouhai, a broken and bullied girl, a sensei, a sick and frail classmate, your own aneki O.o (i guess this one replace the senpai??). If i have to make a case for Crescendo on how good the game is, i can go on and on and on and on. The game is good, there's path that's more lightly themed and some are more heavy and gloomy... I like all the path with the exception of Ayame's. My favorite path is Kaho and Yuka (Hate Yuka's ero scene, though).

But, still... This is not the best out there. And i don't think this discussion will ever end, face the fact that you have your own bias toward this title while i lean more toward plot depth and. Sorry if it's annoy you, but i'm surprised the simple fact that i like Uta (this one not so much) and F/SN could annoy you. While i'm not a statistical and number based guy, and i'm not one that fixated on following the mainstream, the success of F/SN should have spoke volume on it's quality.
Uchi kaeru....

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Unread post by Miraploy » June 10th, 2008, 5:31 pm

@Phlebas, please re-read my post. I followed the analogy perfectly, you're the one who's confusing it.

The difference isn't between sci-fi/fantasy and drama, it's between plot versus character. For example, R&J/FSN/Uta has a lot of drama, but little character, and lots of plot, meanwhile Crescendo has drama and character, but little plot.

Do you seriously think that FSN/Uta are not kids' shows?

@Raitei, I understand that it's a question of taste, but lolipedofin claimed that FSN was superior to Crescendo on an objective level, and that I cannot abide by. My entire post was to show that the issue WAS one of taste, and I seem to have suceeded.

And it's not really a matter of jumping on one's ass. If all we want is a list of VNs for this thread, then my post might've been out of place. But I thought we can have an interesting and more indepth discussion of the worth and merits of the VNs we listed... I don't think that's a bad thing.

Just to clarify, I don't think lolipedofin said anything he shouldn't have, that's not why I tried to rebut him. I was clarifying a subtle point in judgement that I think he might've missed.

It's true that a lot of times I might come off as argumentative, but that's really not my intention. I really appreciate the small things, and oftentimes think they're worth discussing. This could be nerdism, but it's also known as attention to detail. When people have differences, a lot of times it's because the details about something are unclear to one party, and that's why forums are for.

PS: Scratch that, arguments are my intention.
Last edited by Miraploy on June 10th, 2008, 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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