Fate/Stay Night Roleplay? [Spoilers]

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Nalerenn
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Unread post by Nalerenn » September 27th, 2007, 2:54 pm

Speaking of RPing as a Servant, something to possibly think over would be the players who play a Servant paired with a Master controlled by a different player. There could be a Rin moment with that kind of system (But I don't want that Servant!). Personally speaking, that's what I would like to play, as a Servant and Master are two different people entirely, so it makes sense to me to have them played by two different people. Of course, people who play Masters would be severely gimped in combat (unless there's a system for that which I missed). I would prefer it if people would play to enjoy themselves and not to power-game, but ... y'know, it's a game. There's always going to be those kinds of people.

Raitei
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Unread post by Raitei » September 27th, 2007, 2:57 pm

Naota wrote:The system of points I was talking about basically makes it really easy for people to balance out their servants in a way that they think is suitable to the character they're after. Like you described, a servant could have an incredibly strong Noble Phantasm, but low statistics, or a weak one and stronger statistics to compensate. By having the Noble Phantasm use the system I proposed, a servant would have to use 9 "points" to make their NP as powerful as possible, leaving only about 7-14 points to use on the rest of their statistics. This means that a servant with a powerful Noble Phantasm would have very low attributes in comparison, just like the way it works in Fate :P. Also, keep in mind that it would be entirely possible to come up with a 2 point skill for your character that did something like increase their Noble Phantasm rating by 4 points (Up from B to A+ for example) under certain conditions (like at night, or when fighting surrounded by water... Anything you can think of that's not too common).

Basically, this would be an easy way to keep characters in line with oneanother, while still holding on to the differences in power that make Fate so unpredictable, and also allowing the roleplayers the power to fully customize their servant however they like without unfairly creating Gilgamesh-like behemoths. This way everyone's on a level playing field, but not so level that it becomes a stalemate.

As for the need for a GM, I would personally love to take part in the roleplay as a servant myself, and I believe that I can be trusted not to pick favourites or throw the competition. Of course, that means nothing at all if nobody else trusts me to do the job while still participating, so I leave the proposal up to you guys to reject or accept :P. A GM like this is only really neccessary at the beginning of the roleplay, to oversee character creation and enforce a system like my improvised one. After that point, they would only be required to watch over battles between characters in case some "god modding" happened (A character becoming seemingly invulnerable to damage simply because the writer/roleplayer doesn't want them hurt.). Also, if you would rather, I could also take a back seat in the Grail War while simultaneously serving the function of GM by roleplaying a bystander like Kotomine.
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gee, thanks a lot to message-san, now I can post more freely in this thread...

in truth, naota, I think we'll also need a moderator/s to help us to calculate the outcome of every battles, according to the status of every participants and the condition of the battleground environment...
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and external factors such as sudden change of events(like a sudden raining or gusts of wind), and incalculable factors for the participants, but calculable for the moderators, such as luck.

of course, the mods will be selected from neutral, non-alleged people...

and to make it more exciting, I think we'd need some random ai/npc enemies and training grounds to level up,for both the masters and the servants...

course, leveling up will be set up as difficult as possible...
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence

demonblade
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Unread post by demonblade » September 27th, 2007, 4:01 pm

Leveling? Training ground? Maple Sto-oops. Ignore that XD

But really, since when has this become an MMORPG? lol.

I'm completely against that. I mean, what if you fill an entire page of a thread with nothing but

"Archer hurls Kansho and Byakuya at Skeleton Warrior. He deals 14 damage.
Skeleton warrior takes 14 damage. Skeleton warrior dies.
Archer gains 25 experience points!"

and like two pages later

"Ding! Archer is now level 2! He has earned a new skill point to spend."

I mean, I know I'm exaggerating here but...

Seriously. I'm all out for it to be purely storyline/campaign-based, and while I'm not saying character development needs to be stale, character growth needs to be made in different ways.

For example, simply giving upgrade points as a result of a confrontation which either:
1) Has you learning something about the enemy/opponent (i.e you discover that Raitei is actually NOT a Master, but a Servant of a hawt blonde, armoured sword-wielding chick! OMG!),
2) Actually dealing a terrible blow (forcing Naota to use a Command Spell to help him escape with his Lancer, or losing an appendage to the enemy)
3) Character/player death (self-explanatory)
4) Achieving certain objectives or making progress (Knows identities of all Masters and Servants, made an alliance with Lolipedofin and his Assassin, betrayed and took out Mister Murder and his Servant)
5) Discovers key item/information as regards to the story/campaign (the Dead Apostles have taken an interest in the Holy Grail War, and one of them is actually a Master. OMG!)

And so on. Wouldn't that be more fun than just grinding with words? This way, players are then attracted to interact more with other players, as that's the only way one can increase their abilities.

Rather than just...you know. Hiding by yourself, and leveling uptil you're like 10 levels ahead of everyone and come out and wthpwn everybody ;)

Unless of course, you want to go around sucking souls as well. That would be pretty interesting, but of course, the GM will probably instill possible risks ('Caught in the act by the most dangerous Servant in the War! oh noes!' or 'Hey, isn't that Tohno Shiki and his vamp girlfriend? oh noes!'), and can even expand the story from there on out.

Whaddya think?
Atheism:
The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically
exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically arranged
itself for no reason whatsoever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs.
Makes perfect sense.

"I am a spider, webbing in darkness. Welcome to this beautiful killing field." - Nanaya Shiki

Naota
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Unread post by Naota » September 27th, 2007, 7:26 pm

Actually, I wasn't suggesting RPG mechanics be involved in this at all, save for the starting setup of characters. Basically, the guidelines I posted are a nice, easy way of creating a servant almost exactly the same as you would see in the game, rather than dictating what might happen in it. You'll notice that F/SN uses much more than just the statistics on the status page to determine the outcome of a battle or what goes on during the process. There's much more than just simple math involved in a roleplay, so these statistics should only be a rough guideline of how a servant is different from the others ("My servant has much greater Luck than my enemy's, so I should consider that.", rather than "My Noble Phantasm is at an A+ level. That means that I can beat any servant at A or below!" which is the way you would think in an RPG -which this is not.).

Levels are a really artificial mechanic that never really appears in Fate, and I'm grateful for that. It should be up to the roleplayers to decide how much stronger their servant is when fighting with determination after a bonding moment with their master, etc. rather than a contrived system. Given that the Grail War takes place over a relatively short period of time, there should be little, if any, dramatic advancement of a servant's skills. After all, it's not as if Saber could somehow obtain more power by training all the time or defeating other servants. In fact, it's quite the opposite... She expends energy fighting other servants, and becomes weaker each time, rather than magically becoming stronger because she "learned something" from the previous fight. In terms of becoming stronger, there are a numbr of ways that do make much more sense, like being given/taking a new weapon from another servant, or gathering a mass amount of mana (though mana would be only temporary). Of course, the best way of gaining "strength" in my opinion would be to interact with and form bonds (of friendship, rivalry, or adversity... Or all three!) between characters, most importantly master and servant.

As for seperate Master/Servant roleplayers, I think that's an amazing idea ^^.
"They marched onwards, fire against earth, bodies piling ever higher for the whims of rival demons, content in their game. The masses never questioned their intent nor knew their masters, serving Hell more than Heaven in their madness. For madness went unchallenged here, and the great machine of many faces, skins, and thoughts continued to turn in silence."

Raitei
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Unread post by Raitei » September 27th, 2007, 10:27 pm

hmm, you're right naota, but still I think that the role of a mod is very crucial in determining the outcome of a battle..
otherwise, each player would've got difficulty in determining who's the winner,or the loser in a battle(see, everyonewants to be the winner, y'know)
and demonblade, I support your idea of hiding the status and identity of the characters, and their status;whether they're servants (spirits), or masters (humans)and skills...
it'll create an aura of confusion and uncertainty, making it possible to work more subtle and suitable for spying....
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and in two on two battle, or more, that doesn't necessarily mean a master and his servant are fighting another master and servant...
of course, a supervisor will be there,and you may ask everything that has connection with the holy grail war...but the supervisor's allowed to give false hints and advices, to make it harder to figure out something..
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence

Nalerenn
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Unread post by Nalerenn » September 28th, 2007, 12:00 am

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Just a slight question to throw in, here. Giving that if a Master and Servant combo are in different time zones, this would be play-by-post rather than a MUSH or something similar? It just kinda dawned on me that we've not covered the actual location of it, but then again, the system is kind of important.

Actually, come to think of it, I don't think anyone said they'd take it on, either ^^;;

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Unread post by Naota » September 28th, 2007, 12:35 am

Raitei wrote:hmm, you're right naota, but still I think that the role of a mod is very crucial in determining the outcome of a battle..
otherwise, each player would've got difficulty in determining who's the winner,or the loser in a battle(see, everyonewants to be the winner, y'know)
and demonblade, I support your idea of hiding the status and identity of the characters, and their status;whether they're servants (spirits), or masters (humans)and skills...
it'll create an aura of confusion and uncertainty, making it possible to work more subtle and suitable for spying....
► Show Spoiler
and in two on two battle, or more, that doesn't necessarily mean a master and his servant are fighting another master and servant...
of course, a supervisor will be there,and you may ask everything that has connection with the holy grail war...but the supervisor's allowed to give false hints and advices, to make it harder to figure out something..
A supervisor would certainly not go amiss for battles like those, and it would indeed make sense to have things that way. As for the anonymity of servants; that's an awesome thing to have in all respects. We'll have people puzzling over who in hell each servant is, just as they probably did while reading Fate. I know that personally I'll be using one of two rather well-known legendary figures, and a master would be quite interesting. As for the pairs, I'm not sure if we'll have 14 people available to roleplay all of the master-servant competitors in the Grail War, so it should also be an option to control both master and servant if we run into an absence of active players. Of course, I would much rather have two seperate people controlling the master and servant to give a sense of distinct personality to each, but master/servant pairs are still an option for some people. Battles might be a big part of this roleplay... It is a Holy Grail WAR after all, but some character development and interaction in between the action-packed parts is what really makes my day ^^.
"They marched onwards, fire against earth, bodies piling ever higher for the whims of rival demons, content in their game. The masses never questioned their intent nor knew their masters, serving Hell more than Heaven in their madness. For madness went unchallenged here, and the great machine of many faces, skins, and thoughts continued to turn in silence."

lolipedofin
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Unread post by lolipedofin » September 28th, 2007, 2:33 am

Naota wrote:As for seperate Master/Servant roleplayers, I think that's an amazing idea ^^.
I thought this was your idea...?!
Raitei wrote:and demonblade, I support your idea of hiding the status and identity of the characters, and their status;whether they're servants (spirits), or masters (humans)and skills...
it'll create an aura of confusion and uncertainty, making it possible to work more subtle and suitable for spying....
And I thought i'm the one who came up with the idea??!! :(

And i really strongly suggest for the servants not to be purely fictional, but actually taken from a real saga/legend. At least an anime/manga character not entirely made up by you (how can we figure out who your servant is, if even the origin of your servant is unknown to us)

And i think it would be kinda fun too, if the master also clueless about their servant identity (like Shirou&Saber)... but you could always pm each other to reveal id and create battle strategy, the way you like it i guess..

One more awesome thing....!!! How if we make rule that it's compulsory for all master-servant pair to be male-female(can be in any order, doesn't have to be the master is male, servant is female. It could be the other way around as long as it is co-ed)... That way we can make the thread ero when recharging is in progress... :twisted: :wink:
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Uchi kaeru....

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Unread post by Naota » September 28th, 2007, 4:47 am

Hmm... Now that you mention it, I guess ideas have a habit of switching around a lot XD. Actually, I was already planning on my servant being female, since I always seem to inspire more drama and action whenever I do. That, and I get to come up with really cute moments every once in a while that make everything worthwhile (like the moments of total insanity when playing a mentally-deranged character like I did in my last roleplay). Yeah... I'm weird like that, but I'll do a good job ^^.

Servants based on actual/Type-Moon mythology would be nice too, but I'm not sure what other people think of it. Both of my ideas for a servant already fit that description, though I would be interested to see if anyone could determine who they were.

I haven't decided yet, but one's a clueless semi-airhead who knows nothing about modern society, and the other is somewhat more mischievous and Kohaku-like... I suppose I'll wait to see what Masters and other Servants there are going to be before making my decision.
"They marched onwards, fire against earth, bodies piling ever higher for the whims of rival demons, content in their game. The masses never questioned their intent nor knew their masters, serving Hell more than Heaven in their madness. For madness went unchallenged here, and the great machine of many faces, skins, and thoughts continued to turn in silence."

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Unread post by demonblade » September 28th, 2007, 6:59 am

I think he was referring to me suggesting it being an actual game mechanism, not just social interaction?

And I believe 90% of us here are all male. Even with 'female' Servants, no way am I going to see (yaoi-ish)PWP for the sake of recharging! XD

Besides, Kotomine had TWO bishounen. And Sakura as well, IIRC.

Okay, so Servant Origin Possibilities raised up are:

1) Any mythology - may requires description of character; especially race (Chinese? Greek? Indian? Middle-Eastern )
2) Any famous anime - may requires certain identity marks to be on character (a.k.a Naruto - Ninja Headband, Bleach - Character calls weapon to be zanpaktou, etc)
3) Famous fiction - May be limited as there are > 9999999 different books out there; no one can have read them all. Famous ones, like LotR?
4) Famous games - Again, may be limited. May require both mythology and anime conditions, along with general knowledge of game: DMC, FF series, so on...

Not allowed:

1) Original Fiction, self-created Character
2) Gods in general
3) Possibly imbalanced characters without limitations? Examples may include: Alucard (who just cannot die), Haruhi (who is technically a god)

This just a draft though, perhaps you guys can edit it.
Atheism:
The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically
exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically arranged
itself for no reason whatsoever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs.
Makes perfect sense.

"I am a spider, webbing in darkness. Welcome to this beautiful killing field." - Nanaya Shiki

Raitei
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Unread post by Raitei » September 28th, 2007, 8:54 am

Naota wrote: A supervisor would certainly not go amiss for battles like those, and it would indeed make sense to have things that way.
giving false hints and advices isn't necessarily to lure the players to trap, but merely serves as a "misleading" or "misdirection", which means to avoid a key/crucial point of the game(in this case, maybe the key to victory) being discovered easily..
demonblade wrote:I think he was referring to me suggesting it being an actual game mechanism, not just social interaction?

And I believe 90% of us here are all male. Even with 'female' Servants, no way am I going to see (yaoi-ish)PWP for the sake of recharging! XD

Besides, Kotomine had TWO bishounen. And Sakura as well, IIRC.

Okay, so Servant Origin Possibilities raised up are:

1) Any mythology - may requires description of character; especially race (Chinese? Greek? Indian? Middle-Eastern )
2) Any famous anime - may requires certain identity marks to be on character (a.k.a Naruto - Ninja Headband, Bleach - Character calls weapon to be zanpaktou, etc)
3) Famous fiction - May be limited as there are > 9999999 different books out there; no one can have read them all. Famous ones, like LotR?
4) Famous games - Again, may be limited. May require both mythology and anime conditions, along with general knowledge of game: DMC, FF series, so on...

Not allowed:

1) Original Fiction, self-created Character
2) Gods in general
3) Possibly imbalanced characters without limitations? Examples may include: Alucard (who just cannot die), Haruhi (who is technically a god)

This just a draft though, perhaps you guys can edit it.
have you guys forgotten already?
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is just an alternative way of mana rechargement. of course, there's the standard procedure of recharging mana;
► Show Spoiler
of course, the servant's status points is given as fixed number, which can be used to strengthen their status or np(which means, a servant with invincible np can only have poor status; they can be beaten easily by other servant with incredible physical status before even using their np...)

to make it more interesting, I think the servants should also be chosen from human players...so they can betray their masters or go rogue...
I still insist that there should be a neutral npc(can be ai, or human) who would help us decide the outcome of a battle..

and lolipedofin-niisan, should this rpg chronicle been released, would you partner with me?(to be frank, I like jumping to the front and do the fighting instead of just sitting and giving supports from behind. in short, i'd like to be a servant)
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence

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Unread post by flurk » September 28th, 2007, 11:24 am

wow sealing a contract already? good progress ;) ;) ;)

i like being the one who pokes. so i'll be the master

just kidding. all i actually wanted to do is comment on the list of possible servants.

first off, anything that comes out from an anime will sound (or will be expected to be) friggin friggin imbalanced.

2) you should control the extent of possibilities for fictional characters as well, for example allow only those whose stories are set in the real world, no fictional world like middle earth, coruscant, etc etc, although imo lotr heroes won't be powerful.

3) all servants should PM their info and data to the game master(GM), so as to ensure that only one class for each servant exists and stuff. yaeh all servants should be kept secret, as well as the whereabouts of the masters.

4) GM should PM masters to ask them which servant class they prefer. if there are any conflicting interests (for example if 4 people chooses saber), then the GM maybe rolls a dice in real life to randomise their chances? (the three who fail to get saber probably gets some other vacant class or osmething)

but this is just assuming that there will only be 7 servants and 7 masters. unless the GM allows me to join the rp as another gilgamesh or something. lolololololololol

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Unread post by Raitei » September 28th, 2007, 12:26 pm

no way, that's heretic! there's No way i'd like another gilgamesh! that's the first priority rule i'd suggest; no outside interference.
btw, those are good ideas, flurk, about how to make up 7 pairs of servants classes and masters..

oh, I have an additional suggestion, how 'bout adding up several npc s to act as normal civilian? that'll help us hide who are the masters and which ones are servants, as players can pretend as civilians while gathering information...
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence

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Unread post by Nalerenn » September 28th, 2007, 1:30 pm

One thing I kind of have to throw in is about the limit on both one type of class and the maximum amount of players. I really see that as a negative factor in this, where every so often, it becomes a mad-dash race to get characters in to get into the next War, which would cause all kinds of chaos and possibly flame wars. If I was in charge of it, I'd remove those limits entirely, meaning everyone gets a fair shot at the Grail, no matter when they join, who they are or what class they are. To me, roleplay is mostly about freedom of expression, so why limit that?

As for civilian NPCs, that can work both ways. Players who want to be normal can be normal, and the other slots can be filled by Mods or even players who want to break out of a possible stalled topic. The latter would only work if the player's main characters in the stalled topic are NOT controlled here, instead being a simple Generic Passer-By #5216 character. Nothing special, just a wandering soul.

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Unread post by Naota » September 28th, 2007, 1:35 pm

Presumably the power of a servant and their likeliness to appear in the Grail War is related to how well-known and celebrated they are, and particularly how long that remains after their death... This would mean that noble spirits based off of recent "legends" like anime and books would not only be very unlikely because they're forgotten quickly and don't spread around the world to the same extent as most other legends, but also somewhat weaker. Of course, there are books out there which have been around like forever and have almost evolved into myths of their own, so I would suppose certain stories in books to be capable of fostering a noble spirit, even if no original ever existed (Books like The Song of Roland, Dante's Inferno, certain of Shakespeare's works (as if anyone would find them appealing enough to base a servant off of :P), The Testament of Solomon, that kind of thing.).

A few bystanders not directly involved in the war would be cool as well. Given that I'll have a master for my servant character, I could probably write as at least one normal person with which people could talk to and hide amongst :P.
"They marched onwards, fire against earth, bodies piling ever higher for the whims of rival demons, content in their game. The masses never questioned their intent nor knew their masters, serving Hell more than Heaven in their madness. For madness went unchallenged here, and the great machine of many faces, skins, and thoughts continued to turn in silence."

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Unread post by flurk » September 28th, 2007, 1:42 pm

good idea about the non-master character thing. i can contribute with one or two npcs, just to add to the feel. (although i said i won't join in on the rp) how's that?

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Unread post by flurk » September 28th, 2007, 1:45 pm

flurk wrote:good idea about the non-master character thing. i can contribute with one or two npcs, just to add to the feel. how's that?
edit: i said just to add to the feel because i won't be participating in the rp, so it'll be obvious that i'm not a master. :P

double edit: OOPS CLICKED ON THE WRONG ONE. DOUBLE POSTED SORRY

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Unread post by Caineth » September 28th, 2007, 2:04 pm

I would be interested in joining in as a servant. And I like the 7 master/7servants with bystanders approach.

Raitei
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Unread post by Raitei » September 28th, 2007, 2:18 pm

Nalerenn wrote:One thing I kind of have to throw in is about the limit on both one type of class and the maximum amount of players. I really see that as a negative factor in this, where every so often, it becomes a mad-dash race to get characters in to get into the next War, which would cause all kinds of chaos and possibly flame wars. If I was in charge of it, I'd remove those limits entirely, meaning everyone gets a fair shot at the Grail, no matter when they join, who they are or what class they are. To me, roleplay is mostly about freedom of expression, so why limit that?
in order to prevent chaos, we do need to limit the quota of players in every battle. but that doesn't mean anybody who shows up late cannot participate...i've come with a solution; how 'bout making several parallel worlds, where in each world, there'll be a holy grail war with 14 players and several other npc s?
and the world which already have a winner will be closed/reset in order to let new or senior players participate in a new holy grail war...
of course, each world will also have different supervisor/gm who watches over the battle..

I think that'll make everyone able to participate, while preventing chaoses caused by overcapacity of players..
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence

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Unread post by Naota » September 28th, 2007, 3:15 pm

I doubt we would need anywhere near that many... I would consider it extremely lucky if we could find even 14 people to join a roleplay. Of course, if we do have problems with too many people joining, we can always adapt later on, though I would be amazed if it was that popular.
"They marched onwards, fire against earth, bodies piling ever higher for the whims of rival demons, content in their game. The masses never questioned their intent nor knew their masters, serving Hell more than Heaven in their madness. For madness went unchallenged here, and the great machine of many faces, skins, and thoughts continued to turn in silence."

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