Who you like more, Shiki or Shirou? [spoilers]

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Shiki or Shirou?

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Who you like more, Shiki or Shirou? [spoilers]

Unread postby potaatti » July 9th, 2007, 5:17 pm

So, which protagonist you like more? :)


I'm not 100% sure if this the correct forum, if it isn't please feel free to move this.
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Unread postby Kansho » July 9th, 2007, 10:36 pm

What Shirou? xD

I hate Fate Shirou, so-so with UBW Shirou, and I like HF Shirou, simply that....
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.
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Unread postby puKKa » July 9th, 2007, 10:40 pm

I mean, are you serious?
HOW is Shirou, the nobody, going to stand up against Shiki with twisted personality, twisted household, his mind connected to a demon and ofc Nanaya Shiki. I mean, it's like comparing God and a rock. God can lift rock, god can smash rock. Good God.
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Unread postby Hyperbeast » July 9th, 2007, 10:45 pm

Obviously I'm making my decision based on only the Fate route of F/sn, but...

Shiki by far, in terms of general personality. And in terms of combat abilities. And in terms of the chicks he gets. And in terms of how GAR he is. Especially how GAR he is. Pretty much the only times Shirou acts GAR in the Fate route are when he's almost dead and then collapses afterwards, thus nullifying any GAR exhibited.
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Unread postby miszou » July 9th, 2007, 11:14 pm

I agree with the rock metaphor xD


Shiki's personality was pretty wicked now and then and in some bad ends he even ended up killing innocents. He is tortured in inhumane ways a few times and becomes a kick ass murderer sometimes that reminds me of Shiki from Rakkyo (which would kick his ass in return imo xD). Well, not a hard choice there ^^
You are here alone again
In your sweet insanity
All too calm, you hide yourself from reality
Do you call it solitude? Do you call it liberty?
When all the world turns away to leave you lonely
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........

Unread postby Impractic_Shiki » July 10th, 2007, 2:26 am

Shiki by a long shot. >_>

Shirou.....never clicked with me, ever.
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Unread postby potaatti » July 10th, 2007, 8:39 am

I actually liked Shirou more.


I guess it's because Shiki was occasionally a bit too wicked for my taste (and not the least in the eroscenes that I was unfortunate to see). :?
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Unread postby Eriol-kun » July 10th, 2007, 8:43 am

puKKa wrote:I mean, are you serious?
HOW is Shirou, the nobody, going to stand up against Shiki with twisted personality, twisted household, his mind connected to a demon and ofc Nanaya Shiki. I mean, it's like comparing God and a rock. God can lift rock, god can smash rock. Good God.


Totally in agreement.


Well, Shirou seemed more like the stupid schoolboy type. Shiki's experiences before and after meeting Arcueid make him a much more interesting, and thus appealing, character imo.
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Unread postby haderach » July 10th, 2007, 1:25 pm

I really like shiki, he has an interesting personality and i agreed with many of his thoughts. Also he made me laugh many times and that's a very important thing for me.
About fsn i haven't played it yet (I'd rather wait for the full patch) but i hated shirou in the anime.
Last edited by haderach on July 10th, 2007, 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Beowulf Lee » July 10th, 2007, 7:34 pm

Let's look at this from a literary critical perspective...
Shiki bangs an ancient vampire princess, both of his hawt TWINCEST MAIDS, his LITTLE SISTER, and a blue haired killing machine. Shirou bags King Arthur without a penis, and two friends from school. I think it's pretty clear.
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Unread postby PrimarchBentley » July 10th, 2007, 9:10 pm

Great comments so far... :D

As I only have the Fate arc to go by for F/SN (the translation of game so far + the anime, you could say), I'll use the Fate arc for F/SN, and the Arc arc for Tsukihime. And really, I don't think it's too bad of a measure, to use the main (some may say 'canonical') story line from each.

So, look at each protagonist from the main arcs; their behaviors, actions, attitudes, and relationships with others. Then, look at the relationship each protagonist has with the corresponding 'heroine'.

Shiki, hands down...


Now, when we get UBW and HF, I think I'll have to sit down and reevaluate once I have the 'full story' of each. I'll admit, I don't think Shirou gets a fair chance from us fans, but I don't think I can trully give that 'fair chance' 'til I can play through UBW and HF.
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Unread postby Pierrot » July 10th, 2007, 10:41 pm

It's easy to fall in love with a psychopath. A fascination with his 'wickedness', envy at his effortless surpassing of the monotony of our daily life, or simply a fixtation to his strength.

So if you asked who was the cooler guy I'd say Shiki hands down. He is teh awesome, he is a god, smash rock, whatever, rave. Although for badassedness alone Shiki from Kara No Kyokai would beat him any day >:3 Not there's a psychopath, and moe to boot.

But I liked Shirou. He has flaws, but they're real concrete flaws, such as you'd see in real people, which is exactly why I suppose some people can't stand him. On the surface level it's easier to sympathize with a ficional killer (bad childhood, past traumas, how sad, et cetera) than a real well meaning person who simply thinks differently than you. And I like how for once we have a protagonist who is good at 'fixing' objects or bringing them into existence, instead of breaking them.

But allow me to digress. You might notice that throughout Fate the author repeatedly uses the word 'hero' or 'defender of justice'. Take a look at the Japanese term he uses for Servant, which is Eirei, and shares the same kanji as the Japanese word for hero, Eiyuu. Each Servant is a 'hero' in their own right, yet they are found trapped in the hell of the Grail War.

Saber sought to be the perfect hero and failed, losing the faith of her comrades precicely for her lack of flaws. Shirou is very flawed, and does some very foolish things, but we know his intentions are pure. I think the author is asking us here, 'is it possible to be a real hero? What is a hero, anyhow?'

Perhaps the very idea that Shirous strives so strongly to be a defender of justice, no matter his motivations, and no matter his consequences, is the author's idea of what a hero should be. If being a perfect hero is impossible in the real world, perhaps the only place a boy can be a defender of justice is in his heart. And for once in a while was refreshing to see a real hero instead of another 'twisted' 'awesome' antihero as the protagonist.

-----------------The body is a sword.
The blood is iron, the heart of glass.
Over countless battlefields undefeated.
Never once to flee,
And never once to be understood.
Atop the hill of swords she drinks the dregs of victory in her solitude.

Therefore her lifetime held no meaning,
and I’m sure her body was a sword.
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Unread postby JuliusCaesar » July 11th, 2007, 12:28 am

Well on their character I can't decided between the two, but on the who can beat who in a fight, I would have to disagree with the general concenus here and say that shiro would have a good chance of winning.
All shiro has to do is trace Avalon in the exact nature it was when Saber was around, which means a activated Avalon(Which is instaneous because he can do it without casting). If he can do this he wins hands down since he is invincible, even to the eyes of death. Then etheir beat shiki down normally or blade works him. Now if he would do this, thats a good question, Fate Shiro, unless shiki was going around killing innocent people, I don't think he would. Anyway Shiro has a chance against shiki even without avalon since he can regenerate weapons that are destoryed in battle. While Shiki is powerful, Shiro is almost as power as Azokai Aoko, Arucied or the four other sorcerers, given his reality marble and his other abilites. Not that Shiki dosen't have a chance, well he dosen't if avalon is in effect, but he dose in any other situation.
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Unread postby Hyperbeast » July 11th, 2007, 2:44 am

JuliusCaesar wrote:Well on their character I can't decided between the two, but on the who can beat who in a fight, I would have to disagree with the general concenus here and say that shiro would have a good chance of winning.
All shiro has to do is trace Avalon in the exact nature it was when Saber was around, which means a activated Avalon(Which is instaneous because he can do it without casting). If he can do this he wins hands down since he is invincible, even to the eyes of death. Then etheir beat shiki down normally or blade works him. Now if he would do this, thats a good question, Fate Shiro, unless shiki was going around killing innocent people, I don't think he would. Anyway Shiro has a chance against shiki even without avalon since he can regenerate weapons that are destoryed in battle. While Shiki is powerful, Shiro is almost as power as Azokai Aoko, Arucied or the four other sorcerers, given his reality marble and his other abilites. Not that Shiki dosen't have a chance, well he dosen't if avalon is in effect, but he dose in any other situation.


Well first off, let's assume that tracing Avalon would make Shirou invincible to Shiki's eyes. Even so, Shirou would need a weapon, and would then need to defeat Shiki with that weapon, and Shiki has been demonstrated to be much faster than Shirou is whilst sane, but assuming we have Shiki in his "killer" mode, as we assume he would be in for Shirou to fight him, then Shiki would be even faster. Shirou is a magus. While fit, he still has the body of a normal human. Shiki on the other hand, has the demon blood in him, and so has superior combat abilities. Shirou's weapons wouldn't be much use if he couldn't hit Shiki, and Shirou certainly can't cast spells. Then there's the degree of invincibility that Shirou would be given by Avalon. Even when it was in his body, while he never ended up dying, he was wounded. And Shiki was able to see faint lines on Arcueid during a full moon in Ciel's route, when she was close to invincible. So even if Shiki couldn't see any lines on Shirou to begin with, he could probably fight with Shirou to a point in which Shirou would be hurt enough for them to be visible. Or, as shown from Shiki killing the poison in him from Satsuki, he may be able to see lines on and destroy Avalon.
...This is of course however going by my bias and assuming my knowledge of the games is correct, which I doubt it is considering how long it's been since I've played. Feel free to correct me in that case.


Edit: Whoo. Hundreth post.
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Unread postby Chetyre » July 11th, 2007, 3:21 am

Hyperbeast wrote:
JuliusCaesar wrote:Well on their character I can't decided between the two, but on the who can beat who in a fight, I would have to disagree with the general concenus here and say that shiro would have a good chance of winning.
All shiro has to do is trace Avalon in the exact nature it was when Saber was around, which means a activated Avalon(Which is instaneous because he can do it without casting). If he can do this he wins hands down since he is invincible, even to the eyes of death. Then etheir beat shiki down normally or blade works him. Now if he would do this, thats a good question, Fate Shiro, unless shiki was going around killing innocent people, I don't think he would. Anyway Shiro has a chance against shiki even without avalon since he can regenerate weapons that are destoryed in battle. While Shiki is powerful, Shiro is almost as power as Azokai Aoko, Arucied or the four other sorcerers, given his reality marble and his other abilites. Not that Shiki dosen't have a chance, well he dosen't if avalon is in effect, but he dose in any other situation.


Well first off, let's assume that tracing Avalon would make Shirou invincible to Shiki's eyes. Even so, Shirou would need a weapon, and would then need to defeat Shiki with that weapon, and Shiki has been demonstrated to be much faster than Shirou is whilst sane, but assuming we have Shiki in his "killer" mode, as we assume he would be in for Shirou to fight him, then Shiki would be even faster. Shirou is a magus. While fit, he still has the body of a normal human. Shiki on the other hand, has the demon blood in him, and so has superior combat abilities. Shirou's weapons wouldn't be much use if he couldn't hit Shiki, and Shirou certainly can't cast spells. Then there's the degree of invincibility that Shirou would be given by Avalon. Even when it was in his body, while he never ended up dying, he was wounded. And Shiki was able to see faint lines on Arcueid during a full moon in Ciel's route, when she was close to invincible. So even if Shiki couldn't see any lines on Shirou to begin with, he could probably fight with Shirou to a point in which Shirou would be hurt enough for them to be visible. Or, as shown from Shiki killing the poison in him from Satsuki, he may be able to see lines on and destroy Avalon.
...This is of course however going by my bias and assuming my knowledge of the games is correct, which I doubt it is considering how long it's been since I've played. Feel free to correct me in that case.


Edit: Whoo. Hundreth post.





shiki doesn't have demon blood... the Nanayas are demon killers, they hate everything demon related. what he does have is instinctive knowledge of how to kill due to the very old tradition of killing and inbred to keep their special abilities inside the blood line. and I'm pretty sure avalon wouldn't have any lines or dots, it is the ultimate shield, unless tracing screws it out of that somehow, which it probably does since things break and dissapear when traced.
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Unread postby Hyperbeast » July 11th, 2007, 4:14 am

shiki doesn't have demon blood... the Nanayas are demon killers, they hate everything demon related. what he does have is instinctive knowledge of how to kill due to the very old tradition of killing and inbred to keep their special abilities inside the blood line. and I'm pretty sure avalon wouldn't have any lines or dots, it is the ultimate shield, unless tracing screws it out of that somehow, which it probably does since things break and dissapear when traced.


And there it is. Yeah, my wrong.
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Unread postby mir » July 11th, 2007, 8:23 pm

They're both irritating and should be replaced with white-haired lolis. Where's my 3rd option XD
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Unread postby Ciel » July 12th, 2007, 6:41 pm

mir wrote:They're both irritating and should be replaced with white-haired lolis. Where's my 3rd option XD
Listen to him, for this man speaks the truth. :shock:
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Unread postby PrimarchBentley » July 12th, 2007, 10:10 pm

mir wrote:They're both irritating and should be replaced with white-haired lolis. Where's my 3rd option XD


For a protagonist? Then that would mean, later on there'd be hot loli-on-lol- ...

Nevermind, I retract any objection I may have had. :wink:
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Unread postby miszou » July 12th, 2007, 11:43 pm

mir wrote:They're both irritating and should be replaced with white-haired lolis. Where's my 3rd option XD


I can guess your fovourite Melty Blood character? xD

Not a bad option tho :]
You are here alone again
In your sweet insanity
All too calm, you hide yourself from reality
Do you call it solitude? Do you call it liberty?
When all the world turns away to leave you lonely
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