Who you like more, Shiki or Shirou? [spoilers]

[Kansho]

@radical_number6
... All the routes have the same beginning, so all that affirmation is plainly, without logical. Alternate universe didn't work that way you say. Shirou react at Saber first appareance exactly at the same way in all the routes.

I said it, Shirou first behaviour is rather obvious. That's all. Other things are only, fag. Shirou fell in love in Saber seeing her in the ground various times, because he didn't want to saw a girl suffering like that, but also, he loves her determination. And that's all because he saw her past. He never saw Rin in that situation. In other routes he didn't saw nothing and nothing happen, because the route take another way. And when he

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saw Sakura in a similar situation, he really moves his ass by himself to save her, and that's because he notice his hidden feelings and act in consequence. That means, giving up everything he has always dreamed about, basically destroying himself for her sake.

That's the whole reason why Sakura didn't appear in the other routes that much. She is a plot machine. So if she isn't in the war, Shirou can develop other relationships to the point of forgot this. Since he doesn't take care of himself, he doesn't actually word it and at the end, she forgot even without notice it. That's how HF works. Is a way to say to the reader "Oh, so Shirou have own feelings since the beginning aside Kiritsugu ones. Even if he is 'void', at the end he is faithful to that feelings".

Archer is also another plot machine, but works in another way. He depends of being or not slashed.

For Saber (Rin too) first start more like an infatuation, that evolve to true love, of course. But is true too that Saber really shocked a lot Shirou, because that is obvious to in the other routes as well if you are a bit tenacious.

[radical_number6]

in terms of nasuverse, they do have parallel universe, and there have been talks on 3 parallel universe for those 3 shirous. i dont know if there's any interview with nasu on this tho.

visual novelly reality speaking, this game starts the same way for 3 routes coz its a visual novel. if day 14 stated shirou love her from the moment he saw her, then thats the way it is for me.

i dont really agree with your view. to say its the same starting(prologue) with saber, rin, and sakura, to develop possible relationships is to gamey which it is coz its a visual novel. even on different routes, you go thru some same conversation. its a too gamey. its better to stay pure to one route and dont get too complicated and have to include all the routes and try to link them. and im sure you dont agree with my view but hey, parallel universe. does any1 know what nasu's take on this?

[Kansho]

In the game, Zelretch Second True Magic try to explain it. The reality is made with possibilities, and with the second true magic you can jump between them.

There are infinite possibilities, that's all. And a possibility branch from somewhere, and all the routes branch from the same reality. Same with Archer's situation. Routes are only different options that Shirou have ahead in the future. What is canon before a route, is canon before the others. The only thing that change is what Shirou choose. Even some routes give clues to another routes, so they share the same basis and truths.

Is like in physics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many_worlds_interpretation
There are different outcomes of the same thing. And I already said that Shirou behavior is the best proof of all of it (relationship wise).

[radical_number6]

oh, ok. then i'll just wait for hf then. but if you put it way, even so, i still like my way better. i wont take it too seriously, even with zelrecth's explanation. coz you gotta bed different girls in a visual novel, even if its a very story driven, i will still take it as one route as one route with no other route's consideration. i think nasu would encourage this. would he? this is just personal so got nothing to do with this so, again, talks have been made with nasu wanting us to follow our own path or something in an interview. his interview is not quite on this topic tho, if i remember vaguely, tho i like to think he would so.

[Kansho]

Yeah, Kinoko isn't the type that fully explain things. What I trying to say is that routes have the same basis/related since in Fate, UBW or HF, are deep references to the other ones.

[radical_number6]

i like to think of the routes as stand-alone. i dont like references. i block them out when i play. makes my little world go round.

[baubo]

I'm currently on day 6 of HF, and I can pretty much say that Shiro is the WTF character I've ever seen.

The difference between his thought process between each scenario is so different, I feel we're looking at 3 different characters. In Fate he was annoying, in UBW he was meh(basically there so we could see how awesome the other guys were), and now in HF I'm starting to actually like the guy. If he keeps this up, I'd take him over Shiki.

Right now though, Shiki's definitely better.

[goforit1]

What Shirou? xD

I hate Fate Shirou, so-so with UBW Shirou, and I like HF Shirou, simply that....

Yea pretty much.

For me (no HF experience, though I'm REALLY looking forward to it):

UBW Shirou > Shiki >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fate Shirou.

[Krescentwolf]

i like to think of the routes as stand-alone. i dont like references. i block them out when i play. makes my little world go round.

Kind of hard to do so imo... Since Archer is, himself, such a reference. It explains it at the end of UBW, kinda. The boy(Shirou) and the man (archer) are two different entities that share the same starting point.

Thats how i think of it. the route you play is just one of many possible lines toward the future...kinda like reading three different books, all with the same characters... each one starts the same but ends differently.

[Shirou]

Shiki in any route is superior to Shirou in any route. This poll is pretty one sided.

[DarkEyes]

>.> Dude, have u seen HF Shirou?

[Einherjar]

Shiki in any route is superior to Shirou in any route. This poll is pretty one sided.

I agree. But:

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Yes, I do know that is hf, Shirou:
pwned Mana Saber and killed berserker 9 times. So?? He is badass, okay. Do you people read more novels other than ones with people that's badass??? Fate and UBW are both good in it's own right and if you really say this Shirou sucks, fate sucks you're just saying that Nasu didn't do a good job since he ACTUALLY bothered to put it in.

[Shirou]

>.> Dude, have u seen HF Shirou?

umm...Yes? Shirou is no really different from other routes. You must be one of the "HF is awesome" people that can not read japanase.
Besides, people not like fate shirou, and are indiferent towards ubw shirou, that means you are stuck with an unlikable main char for more than 66 % of the game. Shiki at least is more likeable and awesome than that.

[DarkEyes]

How is being not childish and

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screwing the damn ideal

not different?

And u can't compare Shiki and Shirou that way, cuz the way routes work in Tsukihime and F/SN r different... In Tsukihime different routes mean different actions from Shiki, in F/SN different routes mean different actions from Shirou AND a different view of life from Shirou =p

[Kansho]

>.> Dude, have u seen HF Shirou?

umm...Yes? Shirou is no really different from other routes. You must be one of the "HF is awesome" people that can not read japanase.
Besides, people not like fate shirou, and are indiferent towards ubw shirou, that means you are stuck with an unlikable main char for more than 66 % of the game. Shiki at least is more likeable and awesome than that.

Shiki is a painass many times, really. The only reason why Shiki got fags is his "OMG NANAYA MODE HAXXOR", and only western fandom-wise. I readed Fate/stay night, and I like Shirou more than Shiki (and I like HF Shirou more than Fate/UBW).

There are many "HF is awesome-people" who readed the whole game you know? In my case, I'm of the ones who like Shirou as a whole. I simply like him more in HF because his grow and some epic scenes during that particular route. Yes, I think too that HF is "overhyped" by some people who can't read japanese, but that's not the standard. As a side note, the "HF is awesome" was begun by people who readed it in japanese and loved it.

There are many people who love it, and others who hate it. That always happen.

Last statement is-- Shiki and Shirou are that kind of character, or you hate them, or you like them.

[Atriel]

I just happen to like that kind of character (Shiki), i never really thought too much about Nanaya.

Shirou is a bit annoying at times, but i don't hate him nor do i think he's a complete idiot.

[Raitei]

I just noticed something interesting here. @ shirou you say that shiki >>>>>>> shirou, so why do you use "shirou" as your user id?

I see that "shiki" is yet to be taken...

[Brizzle]

I just think Shiro is a more interesting character than Shiki. I see Shiki as too much of a generic-nice-guy-eroge-hero type. But that's just my opinion.

[Shirou]

>.> Dude, have u seen HF Shirou?

umm...Yes? Shirou is no really different from other routes. You must be one of the "HF is awesome" people that can not read japanase.
Besides, people not like fate shirou, and are indiferent towards ubw shirou, that means you are stuck with an unlikable main char for more than 66 % of the game. Shiki at least is more likeable and awesome than that.

Shirou is a painass many times, really. The only reason why Shirou got fags is his "OMG ARCHER'S ARM HAXXOR", and only western fandom-wise.
Yes, I think too that HF is "overhyped" by people who can't read japanese, and that's the standard.As a side note, the "HF is awesome" was begun by people who read a summary and imagined the best shit ever.

Fix'd

And nothing change the fact that at least Shiki is likeable for more than 60% of the game.

[Kansho]

^ I see. Take as you want, I didn't want to get in a senseless childish discussion with fags without any other way to discuss something than that specific way. Live in your our own happy world, I will not give a damn about that. You didn't know at all about what you're talking and is obvious than you're trying to troll this, forget it. I will pass to dive myself in a fight against a demagogue who alter things to benefit his own twisted point of view without any support aside a stupid meme.

As a side note, I see that you didn't know at all where begun the "HF is awesome" polemic meme. It was in BL, precisely, by people who readed the game and their own explanations/conclusions/translations. Precisely, a forum with people who know or try to know. Precisely, a forum where Shiki didn't outnumber Shirou in any popularity poll because they know that Shirou isn't some kind of loser like at first some people tried to show (the same results as japanese official polls, as they stuck in the same position in their respective game polls. Such a coincidence!!)

The only thing that I get about this is that you're imprisoned by the obsolete "lul, ZOMG ShirOu is idiot!!" anime meme. Poor man. I think that Shirou and Shiki are dumbs sometimes, but never idiots. If you didn't want to see it, not my problem. Shiki neither can presume so much about lucidity. The term "likeable" is a subjective one...

My final point is: You readed HF? No. Then, you can't give your opinion about it. When you read it, then you can said "oh, I loved it", or "beh..", but not until that point. That's all.