Who you like more, Shiki or Shirou? [spoilers]

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Shiki or Shirou?

Shiki
170
60%
Shirou
115
40%
 
Total votes: 285

Neofit
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Unread post by Neofit » April 6th, 2008, 9:58 am

Shirou.

He has by far better character development and is thus a lot easier to emphasize with than some guy with amnesia and hax vision whose motivation is rather vague.

animefanzmg
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Unread post by animefanzmg » April 8th, 2008, 6:24 pm

shirou was a bit too generic shonen hero for me. I guess he's better than most but he can't compare to shiki.

I feel i can identify with shiki more than shirou also.

"whose motivation is rather vague."

I think thats a huge part of shiki's character...

Ferozban
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Unread post by Ferozban » April 8th, 2008, 7:34 pm

easily shiki.

i so hate shirou. he's weak. he's a macho and he thinks he something better then all these "poor" girl in the world.

on top of that he's so absolutly stupid that it hurt:
"i want to fight myself against the servant, you stand back saber!"
or
"Shinji: hey can you do the cleainging for me, i want to pick up some girls. Shirou: Sure"

i hated to play this character soo much.

Shiki on the oppisite is just awesome.

Kansho
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Unread post by Kansho » April 8th, 2008, 7:44 pm

Ferozban wrote:easily shiki.

i so hate shirou. he's weak. he's a macho and he thinks he something better then all these "poor" girl in the world.

on top of that he's so absolutly stupid that it hurt:
"i want to fight myself against the servant, you stand back saber!"
or
"Shinji: hey can you do the cleainging for me, i want to pick up some girls. Shirou: Sure"

i hated to play this character soo much.

Shiki on the oppisite is just awesome.
Really, read the game. Is obvious that you didn't.

For example:
1- Shirou is strong in the game. Or he
► Show Spoiler
2- Shirou hit Shinji in the game due to the bruises that Shinji does to Sakura.
In that "cleaning" scene, actually Shinji look pathetic after Shirou's comment, not Shirou like in the anime.

Shirou is sometimes dumb, but not weak or "macho".

If you see the Shiki in only one route, then he is weak and a jerk too... ^^U
Last edited by Kansho on April 8th, 2008, 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.

nobaka
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Unread post by nobaka » April 8th, 2008, 8:06 pm

Kansho wrote:
Ferozban wrote:easily shiki.

i so hate shirou. he's weak. he's a macho and he thinks he something better then all these "poor" girl in the world.

on top of that he's so absolutly stupid that it hurt:
"i want to fight myself against the servant, you stand back saber!"
or
"Shinji: hey can you do the cleainging for me, i want to pick up some girls. Shirou: Sure"

i hated to play this character soo much.

Shiki on the oppisite is just awesome.
Really, read the game. Is obvious that you didn't.

For example:
1- Shirou is strong in the game. Or he
► Show Spoiler
2- Shirou hit Shinji in the game for Sakura's briuses.
In that "cleaning" scene, actually Shinji look pathetic after Shirou's comment, not Shirou like in the anime.

Shirou is sometimes dumb, but not weak or "macho".

If you see the Shiki in only one route, then he is weak and a jerk too... ^^U
Also, Shiki kinda has this tendency to, y'know, rape people. See: Arc, Kohaku, Stealth-Kohaku

Ferozban
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Unread post by Ferozban » April 8th, 2008, 9:59 pm

Kansho wrote: Shirou is sometimes dumb, but not weak or "macho".
well i play the Fate route at the moment and all i hear from shirou is

"girls shouldnt fight" even tho saber explained it to him so even an idiot could understand it.

" let me do the fighting against the servants"

"no i dont want anybody to get hurt i want to save everyone even tho i know its impossbile"

"yes i want to fight but then i dont want to hurt anyone"

i dont know the shirou from other routes like ubw or heaven feel but the shirou i know is pathetic, but i still play fate since i want to see the ubw route since
► Show Spoiler
.

from what i've seen so far of him: i can positivly say that i hate this character.

shiki is far more determind when he says something like i will fight, shirou is aboslutly not.

and from what i've seen from shirou he is a macho since he thinks girls allways need to be protected by men. its not the statment itself even tho its wrong, its the fact that saber and tosaka are the best expample that he absolutly does not need to but he still persists on his argument.

//Maybe i'll change my opinion after i played the other 2 routes, but for now i wont.
Last edited by Ferozban on April 8th, 2008, 10:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Ferozban
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Unread post by Ferozban » April 8th, 2008, 10:01 pm

/doublepost sry

Kansho
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Unread post by Kansho » April 8th, 2008, 10:04 pm

Then wait to play all the routes. He have a far better character development than Shiki, who in Tsukihime is always the same "faceless standard ero-game main guy".

And no, Shirou is the main character in Fate, UBW and HF. Saber is the main female in Fate, Rin in UBW, and Sakura in HF. The thing about Fate/stay night is see the differents developments than Shirou have in the different routes.
► Show Spoiler
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.

Brizzle
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Unread post by Brizzle » April 8th, 2008, 11:13 pm

I feel that even if Shiro's ideals are foolish, he still has them and is willing to fight for them.
As for the mysogeny (sp?), I don't think it's so much that as he simply does not want anyone getting hurt for his sake. On the very first night he meets Saber he sees her nearly killed twice. It goes against his whole world that someone else would be worth more than his own life.

He only desires to protect everyone. He feels that this ideal is worth far more than his own life and he is willfully ignoratnt of the sorrow that it will bring. He longs for the impossible happy ending that he finds beautiful. I kind of like that, although I know that I myself could not be so devoted to such a thing.
GAR for Shiro

shadowrift
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Unread post by shadowrift » April 9th, 2008, 3:02 am

Shirou. I think Kansho has said more than enough for all of us Shirou fans, so I'll just say I agree with everything he's said as my reasons.

Dante Obscuri
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Unread post by Dante Obscuri » April 9th, 2008, 9:09 am

The problem is that people tend to see Shirō's ideals as a childish whim of his, because superheroes are cool, and that's quite wrong. More than an ideal, you can call it fanaticism. For him, living for others' sake is his reason to live. After all he experienced in that fire, he lost his reason to live. He didn't find another one, until he made that promise to Kiritsugu.

Unlike other humans, Shirō cannot feel happiness from indulging himself. This is why Rin said he was broken.

radical_number6
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Unread post by radical_number6 » April 9th, 2008, 2:18 pm

but shirou pushed saber away from berserker's axe sword, and nearly died in her place, becoz near the end, he finally realized he loved her the moment he laid eyes on her. wonder why he didnt feel the same for the other routes, lol. i dont remember shiki much since i havent play tsukihime 4 a long time. but i think its the heroin in the game that makes the story. so vaguely speaking, shiki seems boring to me now i think about it. i like the heroins much more since they're more interesting, memorable, and likable. except hisui. she's just meh to me. i actually find ciel more likable and interesting than arc. but arc is cute tho. but so is ciel. arrggg!

Kansho
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Unread post by Kansho » April 9th, 2008, 2:33 pm

Shirou didn't love Saber just when he saw her. The other routes clearly deny that. He was "shocked" by her and the bond. Is rather obvious, Saber is described as a girl with holy dignity and supreme aura, so Shirou probably felt like an ant compared to her in that moment.

The other routes even said that he have a crush with Rin and he loves Sakura at the beginning.

Then, that "relationships" evolving in a way or in another depending of the route.
Because is obvious that is love what he feels to Saber in Fate, Rin in UBW, and Sakura in HF.
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.

Raitei
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Unread post by Raitei » April 9th, 2008, 7:09 pm

Kansho wrote:Shirou didn't love Saber just when he saw her. The other routes clearly deny that. He was "shocked" by her and the bond. Is rather obvious, Saber is described as a girl with holy dignity and supreme aura, so Shirou probably felt like an ant compared to her in that moment.
err, actually, there implied somewhere in fate route that shirou finally realized that he fell in love with saber the moment he saw her in the shed. and don't forget that he found saber extremely beautiful at that time, not just "dang, this girl gives off an almighty aura. I'm like an insect compared to her."
Kansho wrote:Because is obvious that is love what he feels to Saber in Fate, Rin in UBW, and Sakura in HF.
you just said something that made me think like
► Show Spoiler
but I know you don't mean that :P
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order and everything becomes... chaos.
I'm an agent of chaos."
Fate/world providence

OceanBlue
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Unread post by OceanBlue » April 10th, 2008, 12:20 am

Neofit wrote:Shirou.

He has by far better character development and is thus a lot easier to emphasize with than some guy with amnesia and hax vision whose motivation is rather vague.
I don't even feel like I need to post with this here.

I liked Shirou's internal struggles more than Shiki's struggles as well. In my opinion, Shirou's internal and external struggles blended quite well.

Kansho
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Unread post by Kansho » April 10th, 2008, 12:58 am

Raitei wrote:
Kansho wrote:Shirou didn't love Saber just when he saw her. The other routes clearly deny that. He was "shocked" by her and the bond. Is rather obvious, Saber is described as a girl with holy dignity and supreme aura, so Shirou probably felt like an ant compared to her in that moment.
err, actually, there implied somewhere in fate route that shirou finally realized that he fell in love with saber the moment he saw her in the shed. and don't forget that he found saber extremely beautiful at that time, not just "dang, this girl gives off an almighty aura. I'm like an insect compared to her."
That's only Fate route emotional narrative. It's very easy said that when you are already loving her at that moment. But Shirou behavior at the beginning of Fate route or any other is clearly a proof that he didn't love her yet. At first, he even react more to Rin as a member of the opposite sex than to Saber. At the beginning, he saw Saber as a "beautiful small girl that didn't suit to fight" and his comrade, but he would react in the same way to some another girl, not just her. I think that is pretty obvious when Shirou "really" began to love Saber in the first route. In Fate, he develop the bond with her, and at the end that bond turn to love. That bond exist in UBW and HF as well, but develop in other way.

He too have a crush with Rin. And in the prologue, you can see how Shirou is really attracted by Sakura, you just need to follow that direction in the prologue to notice it...
► Show Spoiler
That didn't mean anything though. Is obvious that the result in every route is love between main guy and main girl. Only evolves in a different way. Starting point differs too between the relationship with the girls. That didn't made one better that the others, only differents types of relationship.
Raitei wrote:
Kansho wrote:Because is obvious that is love what he feels to Saber in Fate, Rin in UBW, and Sakura in HF.
you just said something that made me think like
► Show Spoiler
but I know you don't mean that :P
Probably is his own nature + Roa/SHIKI bond + drugs?. A cocktail. : P
見せかけの自分はそっと捨ててただありのままで
misekake no jibun ha sotto sutete tada ari no mama de -
Throw away the "fake me" quietly and just be myself.

drizzt_rocks
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Unread post by drizzt_rocks » April 10th, 2008, 9:54 am

Shiki >>>>>>> Shirou

Sure Shirou may come out cooler in heavens feel BUT it still doesnt take away from the fact that hes annoying as hell in fate and to a lesser extent in ubw. Also Shiki pretty much owns :P

animefanzmg
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Unread post by animefanzmg » April 11th, 2008, 5:53 am

Kansho wrote:Then wait to play all the routes. He have a far better character development than Shiki, who in Tsukihime is always the same "faceless standard ero-game main guy".
From my experiance with The first 2 routes i don't think he has FAR better character development than Shiki its just more text heavy with shirou. Shiki's change is mearly not directly revealed to the reader through revalations and his increasing power level. This is because Shirou is fairly self aware, Shiki is not.
both definatly gain real understanding about what their respecitive saviors' words meant. Both become less niave, both better understand their powers (and thier value and meaning), both find meaning to life that they didn't have much of before, Shiki becomes less prejudice, Shiki gains courage, shirou stops caring about what others think of his ideals and truely accepts them(its really jsut him becoming more stubborn) shirou gives up
on keeping saber around (it was impossible from the start its just him facing reality earlier than shiki got a chance to (course shiki wins here cuz would probubly just kill the evil in the holy grail and use it to get her to stay or something)) shiki definatly had as much or more of an internal struggle as shirou did(its like the biggest theme in tsukhime)
in terms of actual character growth I would never put Shirou ahead of Shiki due to shirou's stubborness.

I also wouldn't call Shiki Standred at the very least he's a very interesting character who imo is far less standered than shirou who always gave off a generic shonen character vibe to me.

also i like shiki as opposed to not particularly hating shirou and thats what this thread is about

anyway Character growth doesn't have much to do with how much one likes a character now does it? otherwize villains would never be popular.

forgive me for being completly ignorant of the heavens feel route, im looking forward to seeing a more interesting shirou. but i feel you are underestimating shiki.

Atriel
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Unread post by Atriel » April 11th, 2008, 6:04 am

^Yeah, what he said. All hail Shiki.

radical_number6
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Unread post by radical_number6 » April 11th, 2008, 7:57 am

Kansho wrote:
Raitei wrote:
Kansho wrote:Shirou didn't love Saber just when he saw her. The other routes clearly deny that. He was "shocked" by her and the bond. Is rather obvious, Saber is described as a girl with holy dignity and supreme aura, so Shirou probably felt like an ant compared to her in that moment.
err, actually, there implied somewhere in fate route that shirou finally realized that he fell in love with saber the moment he saw her in the shed. and don't forget that he found saber extremely beautiful at that time, not just "dang, this girl gives off an almighty aura. I'm like an insect compared to her."
That's only Fate route emotional narrative. It's very easy said that when you are already loving her at that moment. But Shirou behavior at the beginning of Fate route or any other is clearly a proof that he didn't love her yet. At first, he even react more to Rin as a member of the opposite sex than to Saber. At the beginning, he saw Saber as a "beautiful small girl that didn't suit to fight" and his comrade, but he would react in the same way to some another girl, not just her. I think that is pretty obvious when Shirou "really" began to love Saber in the first route. In Fate, he develop the bond with her, and at the end that bond turn to love. That bond exist in UBW and HF as well, but develop in other way.

You always got the excuse that in this universe, shirou love saber the moment he saw her as stated in day 14, and love another girl in another universe. Not to be stubborn but, yeah, thats how it is. anyway, oh yeah, during the last berserker fight in the forest, shirou has no problem with rin fighting.
edit: i forgot why i put it in bold. uhhhh...rin is a teaser,ok. and shirou didnt react to saber coz he was avoiding her. took him long enuff to talk to her properly. that shows more than reacting to rin's teasing imo.

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