[SPOILER] Summoning Hierarchy

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[SPOILER] Summoning Hierarchy

Unread postby ErutanXiku » February 3rd, 2011, 2:46 pm

Hi everyone : ) Seeing as I haven't introduced myself yet, allow me to do so. I'm evidently new, but have been trolling around for some years - love the work the Mirror Moon team has done; thank you so much for providing me a means of learning more about the characters and stories I love. By that I mean that I've often watched the Anime first then played the game...I feel that I appreciate it better that way.

Now onto my topic...Evidently, while playing Fate, there is a Summoning Hierarchy when a Master summons their Servant. It's partially explained, but how does it actually work?
We know how the Servant Class system works, in that each Hero summoned fills a Class they meet the criteria for, based on what they've been known for be it their choice in weapons; their talents; their personality etc.

We also know that using a Catalyst during the ritual improves the Master's likelihood of summoning their intended Servant - as shown when Kiritsugu used Avalon to summon Arturia as Saber and when Bazzett used Cu Chulainn's earrings to summon him as Lancer. With Rin, she tried summoning a Saber Class - not necessarily Arturia - without an appropriate Catalyst, and ended up with Emiya as Archer because he had the jewel she used when reviving him during his timeline - and since she still had that jewel at the time, it could be considered a Catalyst, despite not being used during the ritual.

One of two explanations can be used as to why a Saber Class wasn't summoned during Rin's attempt - 1) The Class was already filled because, I think, Kiritsugu sealed Arturia in Shirou's shed and so she never "left the War", or 2) Shirou, being in possession of Avalon, increased his chances of summoning Arturia as Saber far more than Rin's chances without one.

Regardless of your preference in explanation, the issue is the Hierarchy. What if two people had a Catalyst for a specific Hero and wanted them either for the same or different Classes. Let's use Cu Chulainn as an example for this, while hypothesising that a second Master had a Catalyst of his like a lock of hair or a piece of Gae Bolg.

Cu Chulainn, by his own admission, could have been one of three Servant Classes - Lancer for his fame in using Lances and Gae Bolg; Berserker for his fame in going into Fighting Frenzies and Caster with his talents in Magic - I'm pretty sure that in the UBW route he says something like how Magic was his real specialty, despite his skill with the Lance, before setting fire to Einzbern Castle.

We have Bazzett attempting to summon him as Lancer with his earring and a hypothetical second Master using a piece of Gae Bolg/lock of hair to also summon him as Lancer - who would be successful? Also, what if this second Master wanted Cu Chulainn to instead fill the Caster Class, had Medea not already been summoned - which Class would he have likely filled?

Also, since Rin has her jewel and Emiya will always have her jewel, does that mean that no matter what timeline/reality, provided that she always develops a crush on Shirou and revives him when he dies, she is destined to summon Emiya as Archer or Saber - perhaps even Caster, despite his poor abilities as a Mage - depending on which Classes are available?


Would love to hear your thoughts on the matter : )
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ErutanXiku
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Re: [SPOILER] Summoning Hierarchy

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » February 5th, 2011, 2:33 pm

Well the thing is if you're talking about why
Emiya was summoned as of the Archer Class instead of the Saber Class it's really a simple reason. First off Shirou did learn of Archery before hand and even follwos the exact process of firing arrows when practicing his projection ability. Another reason is because almost like how Gil uses his weapons as projectitles Emiya does the same kind of technique as well, but with a completely different setup. Also, since Shirou did make a contract with the world in one of the many multiple universes he will now always show up within the 5th Grail War no matter what. Although I think the explaination of what happened in that version is all in theory since it kind of gives off the whole paradoxial theory somehow. Well that or or wasn't fully explained and people go by hear-say of the possibilities of that.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.
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Re: [SPOILER] Summoning Hierarchy

Unread postby ErutanXiku » February 8th, 2011, 2:20 pm

Oh I know that : ) My questions were:

a) Will Rin always summon Emiya as her Servant - regardless of Class - no matter how much she prepares to summon another Hero? Because now that Emiya is a Counter Guardian and possesses Rin's jewel, the jewel acts as a Catalyst by itself and "summons" Rin as his Master - at least that's what happened in Fate. I'm pretty sure that it was stated in the UBW route that since Master's can use Catalysts to summon a specific Hero, the reverse also holds true. Since the Throne of Heroes exists outside of the natural flow of time and reality, will Rin always end up with Emiya as her Servant, even if she never saved Shirou in her own time and if she had a Catalyst for a specific Hero...it's a little confusing, what I've written, but I hope it's still decipherable? I was thinking that the the jewel that Emiya possesses would be a stronger Catalyst as it also has a personal tie between the two - even if she isn't the Rin of his time, she's still Rin - rather than if say she was using a Catalyst to summon another Hero...

b) How does the Summoning Hierarchy work if two genetically unrelated Masters were to coincidentally summon the same Hero at the same time using two different Catalysts...
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