Uberoy wrote:Well, first of all, every master sees a servants stats in different ways. This is the most convenient way for Shirou so you shouldnt be able to understand it fully if your not very similar to Shirou.
Uberoy wrote:That Rin vs Caster fight.
Rin must've used strengthenin because unmagical stuff cant hurt servants so she had to use strengthening to a certain degree anyway so why not boost some power aswell?
The Shirou vs Gilgamesh fight.
The reason Shirou won is because Gilgamesh underestemated Shirou and just played with him.
And FYI: Magus are not normal humans.
Well, first of all, Caster may not be at her optimal condition at this point. remember, she was sustaining Assassin, Archer, Sabre, and herself (her master is not even a magus). Ilya was a mana battery on legs, and she only supplies ONE high class servant. Caster was essentially juggling FOUR. This must be extremely taxing, even if she was an amazing magus. Also, there is the factor that Caster was caught off guard. She was not expecting a magus to charge forward and start to melee with her. She was expecting Rin to use jewel sorcery.Oolinthu wrote:Exhibit A: Caster, with E rank STR, D rank END, and C rank AGI. Are we really supposed to believe she has the strength of 10 men, that her body is 20 times as durable as a normal human body, or that she's 30 times as agile as a normal person? If so, what do we make of the fight scene where she gets her ass handed to her by Rin? Of course, it's possible that Rin had strengthed/enhanced her physical abilities with magic (though it never says that she did, nor does it imply that she's moving at blinding or breakneck speeds - also, Rin, IIRC, doesn't use Strengthening magic), but to increase her abilities twenty or thirty-fold?
Oolinthu wrote:Exhibit B: Gilgamesh, with B rank STR, C rank END, and C rank AGI. This would mean, according to Fuyuki, that he possesses 40 times the strength of a human being, and is 30 times as durable and agile. And yet, at the end of Unlimited Blade Works, he's overpowered in melee and then subsequently maimed by a fully-human Shirou. Whatever skill Shirou is able to project along with his swords should not account for him overcoming a being 40 times stronger and 30 times more durable and agile than him.
Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:Well, first of all, Caster may not be at her optimal condition at this point. remember, she was sustaining Assassin, Archer, Sabre, and herself (her master is not even a magus). Ilya was a mana battery on legs, and she only supplies ONE high class servant. Caster was essentially juggling FOUR. This must be extremely taxing, even if she was an amazing magus. Also, there is the factor that Caster was caught off guard. She was not expecting a magus to charge forward and start to melee with her. She was expecting Rin to use jewel sorcery.
Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:You forgot to take into account that Shirou downloads the skills associated with the weapon he projects and he could even match his attributes to what is required to wield said weapon (as in the Nine Lives scenario). If I remember right, he was fighting Gil with Kansho and Byakuya. He absorbed some of Archer's skills because of their close association, together with what he learned from projecting the weapon, it is entirely possibly that he was fighting at near Servant level during the that battle. Add Gilgamesh's carelessness, our boy Shirou just had a victory that is normally impossible.
Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:I believe the system is a good system, it is just that the characters are never the norm in Nasuverse and the plot is just full of twists and surprises. On the other hand, would you like to read a VN that sounds like a D&D manual that adheres to the rules down to the letter?
Oolinthu wrote:Well, considering it's stated that Caster has an exceptionally high mana capacity on her own, now that she's freed from her previous Master, and that she's augmenting her own supply by stealing mana from Fuyuki's population and channeling it through a ley line, I doubt that mana was the issue. Caster herself states, when Archer defects to her side, that she could have accepted all the Servants. I realize that the element of surprise was at play, but consider what the multiples of 10, 20, and 30, actually mean if taken literally. By those numbers, Caster should be capable of all manner of feats of incredible acrobatics and athleticism. Even the act of swatting at Rin purely in defensive reflex should be enough to send her careening away. She shouldn't be completely overwhelmed by Rin's assault, even if surprised.
Oolinthu wrote:As I recall, in the Nine Bullet Revolver scene, Shirou was using Berserker's weapon and technique, but relying on the strength and overall increased stats coming from Archer's arm. He wasn't able to project Berserker's raw strength; presumably he wouldn't have had Archer's strength without Archer's arm. If this were the case, every time he projected a weapon he'd become as powerful as the hero who originally wielded it, and we know that's not the case.
Hm, a lot of strange interpretations are going on, but this is the way how I personally see it. For common ability stats, E = expert, D = ace, C = superhuman, B through A = beyond what a human being can accomplish/going to need some god/demonic/dragon/shinpi blood to get these kinds of stats. There are some other theories for this about how back then, in order to even survive people had to be stronger/tougher/faster. Well Bedivere did manage to run way faster than a normal modern human being could so it is possible.
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