Fate/Stay Night Movie [Spoilers]

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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by Uberoy » August 4th, 2009, 5:57 pm

Everyone knows that if your big because of muscles your heavy and heavy stuff are hard to move so therefor, the more muscles you have, the slower you are. It is implied that muscles dont give you any physial strength.

For those who don't get it.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by Keeper of Gil's Vault » August 5th, 2009, 12:47 am

Oolinthu wrote:Well, I think Fuyuki says that AGI refers to agility, not speed, although speed is factored in somehow. But regardless, the motherfucker runs at a steady 50 kilometers an hour when he's blind, deaf, and presumably running into a tree every few seconds. According to Fuyuki he attacks at the speed of sound. That's about 1,200 km/hr or 745 mph.
I hated how in the Fate anime he fights like your stereotypical big, slow giant mook. It was like the animators had just gotten lazy, or couldn't figure out how to animate Saber/Archer vs. Berserker battles with Herakles fighting like he's supposed to.

Ya, agility does not equal to speed, but there certainly is a positive correlation there.
I am totally with you on this one, but imagine if the story stayed true "letter-for-letter" to the status given.

*Archer leaps like a gazelle around the fixtures in the Einzbern castle.
*Berserker gazed at the back of Archer, leaped with all his might. His speed is so high, the contour of his body became a grey blur.
*The air-borne Berserker loomed over Archer.
*Slam! Archer became a bloody pulp on the floor, rasping "I am the bone of my s...sw...sword..."
*Ilya laughs manically
*Shirou and gang had not even stepped out of the door yet

I am not sure about you, but I don't really feel like watching this accurate version. I would tolerate the inaccurate depiction, any day of the week
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by SolarAdept » August 5th, 2009, 3:48 am

I think that AGI refers to how fast you move from place to place and the actual speed of blows depends on the Strength. Cuz, you swing the weapon with your hands,no? That's strength that you're using to swing something, not speed or something. Even big slow guys can swing stuff quickly while stationary.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by Oolinthu » August 5th, 2009, 1:41 pm

Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:*Archer leaps like a gazelle around the fixtures in the Einzbern castle.
*Berserker gazed at the back of Archer, leaped with all his might. His speed is so high, the contour of his body became a grey blur.
*The air-borne Berserker loomed over Archer.
*Slam! Archer became a bloody pulp on the floor, rasping "I am the bone of my s...sw...sword..."
*Ilya laughs manically
*Shirou and gang had not even stepped out of the door yet

I am not sure about you, but I don't really feel like watching this accurate version. I would tolerate the inaccurate depiction, any day of the week
Actually, the scene you've described sounds hilarious. You just don't understand how GAR for Berserker I am. Had there been a scene where Archer slips up, gets maimed by Berserker, and has to watch in horror while Berserker proceeds to beat Shirou, Rin, and Saber to death with his cock, I'd still want to watch it.

But in any case, what you've described didn't happen in the novel, where Berserker's insane strength and speed are acknowledged. Somehow Archer still managed to kill Berserker six times or so. It isn't that making Berserker as fast as he's supposed to be would make Archer lose immediately, it's that the animators for the FSN anime were either too lazy to animate the fight the way it should have been, or couldn't figure out how. Shoddy work on their part, essentially.
SolarAdept wrote:I think that AGI refers to how fast you move from place to place and the actual speed of blows depends on the Strength. Cuz, you swing the weapon with your hands,no? That's strength that you're using to swing something, not speed or something. Even big slow guys can swing stuff quickly while stationary.
I don't think AGI refers to that either. Lancer, Rider, Berserker and Hassan all have A rank agility, but move at vastly different speeds. Kojirou has A+ agility, but somehow I doubt Kojirou could outrun Berserker. It seems like AGI refers to Dexterity in the D&D sense of the term - that is, physical coordination. So it would factor into a Servant's movement and attack speed, as both obviously require coordination and dexterity, but not refer to either directly. There would, however, as Keeper of Gil's Vault puts it, certainly be a positive correlation.

If I had to guess, I'd say it probably means something slightly different for each Servant. Rider moves fast, but is also extremely lithe and acrobatic, and can cling to and run up walls without too much effort. Lancer can run and dash at very high speeds, and has fast, accurate attacks. Hassan, while probably not as lithe as Rider, has fast, pin-point accurate dagger throws. Kojirou never shows signs of any ability to run and leap about the way Lancer, Hassan, and Rider can, but has fast, deadly accurate attacks. Berserker is an eight-and-a-half foot giant that can run as fast as most cars and attack at the speed of sound, but I doubt very much that he could run up a building or cling to a tree upside down the way Rider does, though his agility is actually higher than hers (in the Fate arc where she performs these feats, she has Shinji for a master and her agility is at B rank). Basically they're all highly agile and coordinated, but in different ways.

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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by Keeper of Gil's Vault » August 5th, 2009, 4:44 pm

Oolinthu wrote:Had there been a scene where Archer slips up, gets maimed by Berserker, and has to watch in horror while Berserker proceeds to beat Shirou, Rin, and Saber to death with his cock, I'd still want to watch it.
It is really out of character for me to laugh at this, but I did.
Oolinthu wrote: If I had to guess, I'd say it probably means something slightly different for each Servant. Rider moves fast, but is also extremely lithe and acrobatic, and can cling to and run up walls without too much effort. Lancer can run and dash at very high speeds, and has fast, accurate attacks. Hassan, while probably not as lithe as Rider, has fast, pin-point accurate dagger throws. Kojirou never shows signs of any ability to run and leap about the way Lancer, Hassan, and Rider can, but has fast, deadly accurate attacks. Berserker is an eight-and-a-half foot giant that can run as fast as most cars and attack at the speed of sound, but I doubt very much that he could run up a building or cling to a tree upside down the way Rider does, though his agility is actually higher than hers (in the Fate arc where she performs these feats, she has Shinji for a master and her agility is at B rank). Basically they're all highly agile and coordinated, but in different ways.
I agree with your analysis completely, it is quite convincing and thorough. However, I think it would be much easier just to take it as Nasu presented it. There are just way too many exceptions. If you justify Lancer's agility as a reflection of his temporary dashing speed, then Sabre will certainly gain an equal if not higher rank. Her mana burst assisted dash can indeed reach sonic speeds, much much faster than Lancer, yet her agility is a mere C?
Also, if Hassan's agility is a reflection of his fast attacks and speed, then Sabre should also gain an equivalent rank, as she was able to completely overwhelm Hassan during their encounter (you would expect Hassan to dance around Sabre in circles and snipe her like Rider did).
I am not a Sabre fan, it is just that Sabre fought pretty much everyone and the encounters just popped up. I guess you get my point that the attack and movement speeds of characters just fluctuate to suit Nasu's plot needs.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by Locke_Artema » August 6th, 2009, 4:09 pm


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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by Dark_Habit » August 6th, 2009, 6:11 pm

Hmmm..hate to break it to the guys above, but aren't y'all goin' offtopic for a bit too long?
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by Rein » August 6th, 2009, 6:23 pm

Yea, I'd actually forgotten that this thread was even about a movie lol.
Anyways, thanks for that link Locke_Artema. I really hope they do a good job with this movie, it has the potential for great epicness.

Aside: I didn't know they did a Fate maid cafe event!!!
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by Oolinthu » August 6th, 2009, 8:47 pm

Dark_Habit wrote:Hmmm..hate to break it to the guys above, but aren't y'all goin' offtopic for a bit too long?
Is this forum really populous enough to worry about that? There are like 20 active posters here. It isn't as if there's all that much to talk about, given that aside from the confirmation of the UBW route, we don't know anything.
Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:I agree with your analysis completely, it is quite convincing and thorough. However, I think it would be much easier just to take it as Nasu presented it. There are just way too many exceptions. If you justify Lancer's agility as a reflection of his temporary dashing speed, then Sabre will certainly gain an equal if not higher rank. Her mana burst assisted dash can indeed reach sonic speeds, much much faster than Lancer, yet her agility is a mere C?
Also, if Hassan's agility is a reflection of his fast attacks and speed, then Sabre should also gain an equivalent rank, as she was able to completely overwhelm Hassan during their encounter (you would expect Hassan to dance around Sabre in circles and snipe her like Rider did).
I am not a Sabre fan, it is just that Sabre fought pretty much everyone and the encounters just popped up. I guess you get my point that the attack and movement speeds of characters just fluctuate to suit Nasu's plot needs.
But that's just it - my point was that Agility probably represents dexterity - physical coordination, motor skills, one's ability to perform complex, nuanced, or acrobatic feats. In which case it would be related to the speed at which one can move and attack, but not directly indicative. You'd see a positive correlation.

You bring up a good point with Saber, as she does indeed move and attack at high speeds, even when she has Shirou as a master, and thus C rank agility. As you pointed out, however, this is due to her Mana Burst ability - she isn't as agile as Lancer, she just has rockets attached to her arms and legs. It's worth noting, however, that in the Saber and Lancer fight Lancer's under the effects of Kirei's command spell, which limits his abilities, and also that Saber overwhelms him with brute-force attacks made with an invisible sword.

Hassan isn't able to hit Saber with his Darks because of her Instinct ability, which basically does whatever Nasu wants it to do - in this case allowing her to predict the exact trajectory of his daggers and deflect them. I'll admit, though, that the Hassan fights don't seem to make much sense - like how Rider and Archer can fuck his shit up, even though in terms of Strength, Endurance, and Agility he matched Rider and outclasses Archer.

It's also worth noting that Saber's agility fluctuates wildly throughout the story. It's C with Shirou, B with Rin, D as Black Saber (which might explain why HF Shirou can fight and actually defeat her), and according to the Type-Moon Wiki was A under Kiritsugu.

Though I will voluntarily concede that Servant's abilities fluctuate according to Nasu's needs - I just don't think it's completely arbitrary.

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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by Rein » August 6th, 2009, 9:53 pm

Oolinthu wrote: Is this forum really populous enough to worry about that? There are like 20 active posters here. It isn't as if there's all that much to talk about, given that aside from the confirmation of the UBW route, we don't know anything.
*sigh* oh for the days when this place was a thriving community... I wonder how much the admins even come on here anymore? For that matter, I wonder what the members of MM are even up to these days? There hasn't been a notice about anything for forever, aside from one of their members quitting. Not that I don't think these guys deserve the biggest vacation in the world, I mean the work they put into FSN was incredible and we should all owe them our first-born children and undying servitude. But yea, its just getting kind of lonely around here... u_u
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by Keeper of Gil's Vault » August 6th, 2009, 10:09 pm

Locke_Artema wrote:UBW CONFIRMADO?!!!!!

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/08/0 ... announced/
This is very good news. Very, very good news.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by nanaya_shinya » August 7th, 2009, 10:45 am

Locke_Artema wrote:UBW CONFIRMADO?!!!!!

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/08/0 ... announced/
No Heaven's Feel route/arc?

Isn't it sad, Sakura?
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by Xamdou » August 7th, 2009, 11:16 am

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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by Kid-Wolf » August 7th, 2009, 2:42 pm

nanaya_shinya wrote:
Locke_Artema wrote:UBW CONFIRMADO?!!!!!

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/08/0 ... announced/
No Heaven's Feel route/arc?

Isn't it sad, Sakura?
Although
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Last edited by Kid-Wolf on August 7th, 2009, 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by Keeper of Gil's Vault » August 7th, 2009, 4:42 pm

Don't get your hopes up though, we still don't know if Type-Moon is going to take liberties with the plot. As we have seen the anime is Fate route, but with bits and pieces of stuff from the other routes thrown in. There may well be many nods to the Heaven's Feel route in the movie.

Also Kid-Wolf, you are spoiling major plot twists.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by Kid-Wolf » August 7th, 2009, 9:31 pm

Well I just wondering which Ending they will use this that's all. Besides it was speculation for what they will use that's all.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by abscess » August 8th, 2009, 12:05 am

Locke_Artema wrote:UBW CONFIRMADO?!!!!!

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/08/0 ... announced/
Ghuuuu.......!!! T_T
Well..... that was expected, since HF is way too loaded with drama and may be of little interest but the fans of the route........ But still.... Imma wallow on da corner, brudda.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by Oolinthu » August 8th, 2009, 12:31 am

abscess wrote:
Locke_Artema wrote:UBW CONFIRMADO?!!!!!

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/08/0 ... announced/
Ghuuuu.......!!! T_T
Well..... that was expected, since HF is way too loaded with drama and may be of little interest but the fans of the route........ But still.... Imma wallow on da corner, brudda.
The problem, as I imagine it, is thus: Type-Moon probably wants the Fate Movie to generate enough revenue and create enough new fans of the series to justify its costs - and this demands accessibility. To that end, Unlimited Blade Works is far more accessible than Heavens Feel. HF builds on the other two routes, and its primary theme - Shirou casting aside his ideals for the sake of the one he loves - doesn't mean nearly as much without the first two routes explaining his ideal. Furthermore, HF not only introduces and then quickly does away with several characters (Caster, Lancer, Kojirou, and Kuzuki) without bothering to explain who they are or why they're there, but does the same with the concept of the Grail War itself. Absent the context of the other two routes, Heavens Feel just doesn't stand on its own very well. Anyone who isn't already a fan of the series is going to be scratching their head. Unlimited Blade Works, on the other hand, successfully explores pretty much everyone's character (except for perhaps Rider and Kirei, who are fleshed out in Heavens Feel), and stands on its own fairly well.

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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by abscess » August 8th, 2009, 12:53 am

Yeah, that's why I said "that was expected." As a fan I'm not that happy with what they chose, but seeing it in an objective light, that's their best bet. To please the small fraction of fans that not only already like FSN but they like HF would be a bad move. They are a business and they need cash to keep afloat, that's why it's only expected that they choose the route that hasn't already had its animated adaptation. It's actually good that they go for UBW instead of reeditting the anime to make 2 hours long, which would actually disappoint me to great extents.

For an HF adaptation, they'd need to do heavy editting to HF in order to flesh out the characters that appear, tell what the War is about and then go for Sakura's story along with the Greater Grail and all that stuff that follows. And for that they'd probably need more than one 3 hour long movie.

But still, I'm a fukkin' fan, you can't expect me to be happy that I didn't get an HF adaptation. Fans aren't reasonable all the time. We tend to be dumb and ungrateful :)
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.

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Re: Fate/Stay Night Movie

Unread post by Kid-Wolf » August 8th, 2009, 1:40 am

abscess wrote:Fans aren't reasonable all the time. We tend to be dumb and ungrateful :)
QFT

I can see you point finacially though, but with an UBW movie in production a few of the fans can help but hope to see a HF storyline following suit eventually. I mean it has Sakrua going in her "Dark Mode" along with Dark Saber as well. I mean we have one that turns out to be a yandere character while the other tends to be more of the posessed by evil and following the yandere character's orders. Not only that, but it has Shirou with GARm. Although a Type-Moon Slave can dream can't here?
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