Rho Aias (Spoilers)

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Re: Rho Aias (Spoilers)

Unread postby Oolinthu » August 10th, 2009, 1:39 pm

@shirou12
Gilgamesh's hubris explains why Shirou was able to reach the magical epiphany he needed in order to cast UBW to begin with, but it doesn't explain why UBW, once cast, can counter GoB blow for blow, and should by virtue of that fact be equal or superior to GoB, yet against any Servant other than Gilgamesh UBW would supposedly be only "somewhat troublesome", when cleary GoB is more than "somewhat troublesome" against other Servants.

@RinTohsaka
You know, I'm not exactly sure who wrote it or why it's considered an authoritative source on the Nasuverse. I don't know the source of the majority of what's written in the Fuyuki wiki (though some of it can clearly be traced back to the visual novel itself), but the Fuyuki's info is unique and more exhaustive than any other source I'm familiar with. Maybe someone else here knows for sure.
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Re: Rho Aias (Spoilers)

Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » August 10th, 2009, 4:46 pm

Oolinthu wrote:
I've never understood this. Logically, it just doesn't jive, unless I'm missing something obvious.

1. Shirou/Archer's Unlimited Blade Works is the perfect counter to Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon.

2. Unlimited Blade Works would only be "somewhat troublesome" against Servants besides Gilgamesh.

3. Gate of Babylon is obviously more than "somewhat troublesome" against other Servants. It's defeated Berserker and presumably Lancer, wtfpwned Caster, and is more than a match for Saber.

...Does not compute. The only theory I've been able to come up with is thus:
Perhaps while UBW is superior to GoB for a short period of time, enough to close with Gilgamesh and overpower him in melee, GoB is more sustainable, allowing Gil to maintain a constant hailstorm of Noble Phantasms that would eventually overwhelm another Servant, whereas that same Servant could just endure UBW, wait till the reality marble implodes, and then close with Shirou.

Nothing like this is ever said or implied in the VN to my knowledge. Even granting this theory, it doesn't address the question of why Shirou in Unlimited Blade Works, who is fully human and lacks a GARm, is able to overpower Gilgamesh, a Servant, in melee to begin with.

Well, Oolinthu, your theory is essentially correct. The GoB is a dimensional portal that allows Gilgamesh to access his wealth of Noble Phantasms. The NP in the vaults I suspect are present there when he was summoned, just like Sabre had her sword and Lancer had his lance, these nameless NP are historically associated with Gilgamesh. Therefore, the GoB incurs minimum mana cost to Gilgamesh; he just needs to establish the portal, then the NP just pours out at his opponents. UBW, on the other hand, is very, very, very costly. The mana required to sustain a reality marble is vastly more than what is required for a mere portal, so against a normal servant, UBW does one rank less damage than GoB, while costing several folds more mana. Quite a poor efficiency if you ask me. With that being said, when fighting the actual GoB, UBW has the advantage of speed. Rather than a small portal, the land is your arsenal, and everything is pre-made.

And about how Shirou can overpower Gilgamesh in melee, let's not forget Shirou has the power to download style data from a NP. Basically when he traces a weapon, he not only has a near perfect copy, but also has good mastery over it. This skill is something that Gilgamesh does not have, which means Shirou actually has a slight edge in terms of melee skills (note, I did not say power). However, Gilgamesh's hubris, as you said, is another major factor.

RinTohsaka wrote:Heh.I guess this is the first thing I should have asked around here-----The Fuyuki wiki:Who wrote it? How " official " is it? Is Nasu involved ?

Please bear with my incessant questioning . :)

It is a good database compiled by Arai from Beast's Lair. Everything is essentially from the various printed Fate materials in Japan. Arai has a reputation of being meticulous and only putting on what he can confirm, so it is the default encyclopedia for us folks with limited knowledge of moon runes.
Are we Beast's Lair Lite? Are we?!
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Re: Rho Aias (Spoilers)

Unread postby ErutanXiku » January 25th, 2011, 5:47 pm

Thread Revival, but I just came across this while trying to find out the Legend behind Rho Aius/Aias.

With the last few posts, I can't help but get the feeling that debaters are saying that Archer's UBW is the same as Shirou's, when I believe them to be not - apart from the obvious difference in Summoning Aria, there's also experience to account for when going back to what Shirou said about being scared to create more blades for fear of hurting himself. Of course that would happen - he hasn't reached the level necessary to master and sustain UBW. Basically, he's running on Xploder/Cheat Code (with his contract with Rin) and is using an ability he would have naturally gained during his years of training, so within 15-20 years of his current age or something like that.

I am prepared to be told off...I just had to share my opinion, despite being 1 year+ late...
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