Magic Circuits

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Magic Circuits

Unread postby SolarAdept » July 1st, 2009, 4:58 pm

Can someone have none? I mean someone like Shinji for example.
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Re: Magic Circuits

Unread postby solopy567 » July 1st, 2009, 8:21 pm

Normal humans with no connection to magical families have non as far as i know
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Re: Magic Circuits

Unread postby SolarAdept » July 1st, 2009, 9:20 pm

Not exactly correct - I checked fuyuki and apparently most humans have some(normal humans tend to have less then 10) and the magi lineages have more simply cuz they do selective breeding. Well, thanks though.
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Re: Magic Circuits

Unread postby nanaya_shinya » July 2nd, 2009, 7:40 am

Shinji has some, they're just "off".
Take Shirou's example, there's no clear indication that he's actually from a family of magus before being adopted by Kiritsugu.
There's also what Aozaki Tohko said (iirc), "Everyone can learn sorcery, but not everyone can have psychic abilities". (I'm sure that's not exactly how it goes but you get the point)
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Re: Magic Circuits

Unread postby SolarAdept » July 2nd, 2009, 12:18 pm

If Shinji had any, he'd be able to turn them on, since he has all the knowledge necessary. The Matou family's magic circuits died out, as a lot of people said, making it zero.
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Re: Magic Circuits

Unread postby nanaya_shinya » July 2nd, 2009, 12:58 pm

Magic Circuits dying does not necessarily mean that it's completely erased. It could mean that the magic circuit can no longer be used, despite the having knowledge to use it.

You can't turn a light bulb (magic circuit) on if it died even if you know how to turn it on (knowledge). You'll have to change the it first. Unfortunately, magic circuits cannot be replaced normally. You'll have to do some drastic changes first.

Like Zouken's crest worms implanted inside Matou Kariya (Shinji's uncle), which acted as Kariya's own magic circuits at the cost of his own body being eaten away.

Here's something of the typemoon wiki: However, because Kariya lacked any formal training as a Mage, Zouken's insisted on implanting numerous Crest Worms into his body. The worms would literally eat away at their host, causing Kariya's health to progressively fail, in return for significantly expanding his magic circuits and magical potential.

IIRC, Shinji did say that the magus bloodline died out in his father's generation.
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Re: Magic Circuits

Unread postby SolarAdept » July 2nd, 2009, 4:40 pm

Kariya had the potential to become a magus, but he refused to be a one after Aoi married Tokiomi. Crest Worms are basically a Thaumaturgy Crest - it works only on someone who can use magecraft. Otherwise Zouken would've implanted some into Shinji simply for the kicks, just like he did with Kariya.

The only way for magic circuits not to work is for them to be burnt out by overloading them with prana. Since Shinji never used magecraft from the beginning, there is no way he could've burnt them out, meaning he has none.
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Re: Magic Circuits

Unread postby nanaya_shinya » July 3rd, 2009, 6:18 am

Indeed, but Zouken had no reason to implant his descendants with the worms in the first place. If he had, why adopt Tohsaka Sakura into the Matou household in the first place? Shinji getting wormed just for the heck of it would be fun to watch though.

So, lets say that Shinji has some magic circuits, even if he has knowledge, he was unable to use them. That could also mean that he just doesn't have the talent or potential to become a proper magus. You can't burn out something you can't even use in the first place. He's the classic "talk the talk, but can't walk the walk". The only thing he's probably good at is hanging out with girls (failed at Rin though), and archery (though I'm not sure about that).


I wish Kinoko Nasu was here to explain things for us...
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Re: Magic Circuits

Unread postby Uberoy » July 3rd, 2009, 10:12 am

nanaya_shinya wrote:I wish Kinoko Nasu was here to explain things for us...


Yeah... If he only were a mirrormoon member...

Anyway.

Didn't Shinji use magic in Fate when he battled Shirou in the school? Shooting something that Shirou had no problems evading because of his training with Saber?
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Re: Magic Circuits

Unread postby nanaya_shinya » July 3rd, 2009, 11:01 am

Uberoy wrote:Yeah... If he only were a mirrormoon member...

Anyway.

Didn't Shinji use magic in Fate when he battled Shirou in the school? Shooting something that Shirou had no problems evading because of his training with Saber?

oh, you mean
The one with the help of his little "spellbook"? I remember Aozaki Tohko said that anyone call learn and use sorcery. It's either Tohko's wrong, or Nasu is not being clear about magic circuits.

Anyway, I really wonder what was that book for, all I know is that Shinji's "borrowed" Command Seals are there.
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Re: Magic Circuits

Unread postby SolarAdept » July 3rd, 2009, 2:49 pm

Aozaki Tohko: 20 Magic Circuits. She is the first in the history of her family with so much Magic Circuits. Her parents had none whatsoever and it has been implied that her sister does not have much more than them.

Now what do you say to this? From the wikia TM wiki.

http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Circuit
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Re: Magic Circuits

Unread postby nanaya_shinya » July 4th, 2009, 5:04 am

Then that means Tohko's wrong.

Oh, and you just answered your own question.

SolarAdept wrote:Can someone have none? I mean someone like Shinji for example.


Because as you said, the Aozaki sister's parents have none. Because apparently, the parents did indeed have none. (As stated in TM wiki)
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Re: Magic Circuits

Unread postby SolarAdept » July 4th, 2009, 11:44 am

Usage of sorcery and having circuits is not the same. Even people with no magic circuits can recite a spell and have a certain effect. It's called 'Magecraft user'. Just like Shirou wanted to be. IIRC, Kiritsugu thought that Shirou had no circuits so he had him use magecraft related to his origin.

I mean, circuits are more of a filter to use Mana for magecraft than an actual requirement - magecraft users can just use their Od for small-scale sorceries.
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Re: Magic Circuits

Unread postby nanaya_shinya » July 4th, 2009, 12:35 pm

Hmm.. I can't see how this is relevant to the the question which is...
SolarAdept wrote:Can someone have none?

It is already proven that some can have no Magic Circuits.


Is it time to move on to discussing more about Magic Circuits all in all?
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Re: Magic Circuits

Unread postby SolarAdept » July 4th, 2009, 12:37 pm

Don't be so uptight about everything. Forums are made for discussions after all XD
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Re: Magic Circuits

Unread postby nanaya_shinya » July 4th, 2009, 12:42 pm

I can't help it, I just did it on impulse.

Maybe I did it for the sake of arguement... I guess. XD
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Re: Magic Circuits

Unread postby shirou12 » July 5th, 2009, 3:56 am

well IMHO, magic circuits let the user cast major spells, the effect of their spells are depending on their magic circuits they have.
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Re: Magic Circuits

Unread postby SolarAdept » July 5th, 2009, 8:43 am

Your opinion is wrong. The effect of the same spell is the same for magi of different strengths. Spells are a method to regulate a thaumaturgical action, which means the power is the same for anyuser.
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Re: Magic Circuits

Unread postby s4itox » July 5th, 2009, 2:59 pm

SolarAdept wrote:Your opinion is wrong. The effect of the same spell is the same for magi of different strengths. Spells are a method to regulate a thaumaturgical action, which means the power is the same for anyuser.


I read somewhere that a battle of magecraft wasn't so much a battle of the people, but the battle of the thaumaturgy behind them (TM wikia, perhaps?). This is probably me misinterpreting it, but shouldn't the power be different for different users (example, imagine a Tohsaka Gandr vs a Shirou [if he ever learned one] Gandr) since the power would probably change depending on the amount the incantation changes the user?
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Re: Magic Circuits

Unread postby SolarAdept » July 8th, 2009, 9:37 pm

That line is heavily mistranslated.

After a certain point of development, differences between power and even between Magic and Thaumaturgy start to lose their importance in practical terms. A battle between two great Magi will not be decided by their power, but by who possesses the system whose rules has the fewer tears. Not the power behind them, but the concepts they work under.

That's the line you ight've wanted to use.

Also:
Spells have predetermined capacities; so the powers of a particular spell will always remain the same, no matter which magus use it.
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