Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » June 19th, 2009, 12:04 pm

AlinSabel wrote:Nope, two different situations.

The one Kid-Wolf is talking about is when he goes on his late night walk and bumps into Ilya, and decides either to save Sakura or become a hero.
Your one is if you chose to save Sakura but previously allowed Rin to control you, meaning you couldn't save her (you'd be back at the Church).

Both choices are on Day 9.

Day 9

2. He didn't want to kill me?
2. I can't do this myself. I need Tohsaka's help. (1. ...No, this is my problem. = Bad End 28)
1. Yes
1. Yes
1. No way! (2. ...I guess it can't be helped. = eventually Bad End 31)
1. No, I can't leave Sakura by herself.
1. Pull Tohsaka's hand. (2. Close my eyes and attack Rider = Bad End 29)
2. I want to protect Sakura. (1. ...Persist on being a superhero. = Bad End 30)

Your one is Bad End 31, Kid-Wolf's is Bad End 30.


Oh thanks for clearing that up because I kiond of thought that it would be slightly different, but they happen to be both at the same place so I kind of though it would be easy to confuse there.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby Catastrophe » June 19th, 2009, 2:21 pm

^ what he said...
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby BlackTornado » June 20th, 2009, 3:25 pm

Fate shirou cannot become EMIYA, cos he went on to meet saber in avalon =) No more room for archer to happen.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby SolarAdept » June 21st, 2009, 6:49 pm

The one who went to meet her WAS EMIYA. I will not recognize or discuss any other opinion.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » June 22nd, 2009, 3:39 am

SolarAdept wrote:The one who went to meet her WAS EMIYA. I will not recognize or discuss any other opinion.

Wait was that the afterstory that was place in the PS2 version? If that was the case then wouldn't it be more along the lines of Shirou becoming Emiya?
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby Arayashiki » June 22nd, 2009, 7:43 am

Didn't Nasu confirm that Archer Shriou was from the unfinished Illya route?
I remember reading it somewhere so don't quote me and feel free to correct me.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby Vhailor » June 22nd, 2009, 11:23 am

I want the Ylia route :'''( . I want Garcher and Bersergar working togayther to pwn big bad Gilgamesh!
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby SolarAdept » June 22nd, 2009, 5:02 pm

And Garcher using the Bersercar to ram the Church before said final showdown, simply for the action movie feeling.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby Dark_Habit » June 22nd, 2009, 5:44 pm

In a darker future Shirou becomes Archer after a series of events involving Illya's death and he himself saving a hundred people with a miracle and one of those people using him as a political scapegoat. Archer's cloak is a holy burial cloth, his armor and bow a futuristic alloy.


That is Shirou becoming GARcher.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby SolarAdept » June 22nd, 2009, 7:37 pm

I generally agree with the guy who said that GARcher is from a parallel world where Shirou didn't meet EMIYA(maybe due to the latter's inexistence at the time).

Shirou became EMIYA by making a contract with the World. Arturia and Avalon had ZERO involvement with it.

[/joking:] Shirou became EMIYA in the Fate Good End, where he gets Saber, Rin AND Sakura as girlfriends. That's why he seems to act indifferently towards different girls in different routes.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby ReidE96 » July 15th, 2009, 9:54 pm

I'm personally inclined to either Mind of Steel bad end (the "...be a superhero" one where he basically becomes Kiritsugu), or a not-meeting-GArcher route.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » July 16th, 2009, 1:26 am

Tough to say for certain he is from a not-meeting-GArcher route though. Archer has Rin's pendant, that means in Archer's timeline, Rin was present and has a copy of the pendant. If Rin was a master in Archer's war and used her pendant to summon a servant, it would almost certainly be Archer (this is possible because Counter Guardians are outside of the temporal plane). So... unless Rin was not a master, or she used a different catalyst, the summoning of Archer is inevitable.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby abscess » July 16th, 2009, 4:33 am

Oh... Heidegger was right, it seems....
Anyway, strange jokes aside, Emiya must have started some time, so it's more than likely that Rin summoned some other servant in Emiya's timeline, probably not even an Archer. Also, I have a question because of my faulty memory, Emiya remembered Saber, right? Is there an explanation as to why Saber doesn't recognize Emiya as Shirou or there's just a "Oh wow, he changed so much I just couldn't recognize him" kinda an excuse?
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » July 16th, 2009, 5:05 am

Archer encountered during his life time the Sabre of his universe. The Sabre who fought beside Emiya Shirou in the Fate route is from this universe, thus did not interact with Archer. In short, each parallel universe has its own version of Sabre. Since Sabre was not in the Throne of Heroes, the associated restrictions did not apply.

IF Sabre was a servant summoned from the Throne of Heroes, then the Sabres encountered by EMIYA and Shirou would be the same one. However, this was not the case.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby abscess » July 16th, 2009, 5:23 am

Hmmm... I had somewhat of an idea that it would be like that, but there's something strange. Not wrong, just strange. If that was the case, that Emiya summoned another Arturia as his servant than Shirou's, then there must be more than one Arturia that the World is keeping tabs on (or Alaya or whatever that runs the system, I can't remember). Taking that into consideration, then Emiya's Arturia and Shirou's* Arturia are essentially the same, except for the fact that each of them have different masters, thus rendering them different individuals to some level. What strikes me as odd is this:
- After Arturia finally dies in her time, which version would be stored in the Throne of Heroes? Emiya's or Shirou's or would it be an amalgamation of every possible combination of all the versions available (which could be, theoretically speaking, infinite).

That raises some other questions, like for example:
If we treat Fate's good end (I don't know it's proper name), the one available in PS2, as more than just fan-service, then the man that meets Arturia would obviously have met her.
- The amalgamation theory would let that man be either Emiya or a Shirou that summoned her, probably the same Shirou we follow in FSN.
- If there's no mixin' and blendin' involved, then it would be either Emiya's or Shirou's Arturia.

Hmm..... Pime Taradox! Anyway, the question still remains. Is there a way to say that the man is Shirou or Emiya? If there is, then I think it's easy to say which Arturia is the one in the Throne.... I think I just pointed at the obvious....

* For convenience's sake, Emiya is Archer, while Shirou is the one we follow around in FSN.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby Mazyrian » July 16th, 2009, 12:45 pm

I think that problem would apply to every hero; after all, if there are infinite universes, there are infinite Gilgamesh and Hercules and whatnot that become heroic spirits. I'd guess a heroic spirit is some kind of amalgam of all the versions of the corresponding hero, or maybe only the "best" one becomes a heroic spirit.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby SolarAdept » July 16th, 2009, 3:29 pm

Heroes tend to live their lives the same in all different worlds. That means that once a HS is created, the following versions will most likely be ignored, since the Throne already has a copy.

BTW, I believe that Last Episode's Arturia and Shirou are the ones from EMIYA's past(basically, Archer and his Saber).
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » July 16th, 2009, 7:34 pm

It is not likely that they are EMIYA and his Sabre though. Remember EMIYA did not "save" his Sabre like Shirou did, which means he never convinced Sabre to stop her attempt to redo the past. Last Episode occurred because Sabre made peace with her past and was determined to wait for Shirou as a woman rather than a King. Therefore, the Sabre in Last Episode probably was not from EMIYA's time line.

However, whatever said above was assuming that Last Episode is canon and not some sort of consolation prize for Sabre fans. Considering the events in VN, Last Episode is most likely a fanservice. Remember Sabre struck a World Pact in exchange for a miracle, so after she dies, she would most likely be sucked into the swirling torrent of Alaya's counterforce and become a faceless pawn.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby SolarAdept » July 16th, 2009, 8:49 pm

Well, there WILL be a time when Alaya will dissipate and disappear - the end of the world. Or rather Notes going awry and the Aristotles winning.
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Re: Fate/Stay Night Theory | (Spoilers)

Unread postby Kenzu » July 18th, 2009, 10:08 pm

Umm, can anyone tell me when it was said that Archer couldn't save Saber?
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