Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby Chaos Chaud » June 5th, 2009, 9:32 pm

But Archer, like the name implies, is an archer. His specialty isn't close-combat, even if he can handle it. Putting Archer vs Saber this way would be like putting in the frontlines someone with a sniper rifle against someone with a machine gun. Both CAN
fight, but the sniper rifle isn't projected for that...
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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby SolarAdept » June 5th, 2009, 9:42 pm

Did you ever see Shirou fighting with a bow? Did you see Goldie fighting with a bow? Hero Emiya's an Archer cuz of the same reason Goldie is - UBW/GoB. Although both Shirou and Archer are great archers, archery is not their main method of fighting.

Hero Emiya's not a sniper - he's a veteran commando.
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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby Chaos Chaud » June 5th, 2009, 10:05 pm

Well, I was trying to put a fair fight here... If you consider UBW, Archer's not a normal Servant , he is like Goldie... Therefore, even if he beats Saber using UBW ( and he probably will, since it works like GoB regarding the "type of weapon") he would not be elevated to the badass group (well, he is already elevated to the GAR group, so whatever...). And Gil don't use bows, but Archer uses them. And he's a hell powerful with it. Also, I say that Shirou would fight better in a bow-style of fight than a sword-style. I mean, he IS good with bows, he just don't have an arrow powerful enough to damage a servant...
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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby SolarAdept » June 5th, 2009, 10:24 pm

Shirou uses kyuudo, while Archer uses kyuujutsu, as mentioned in Fate. Basically, it's meaning over technique. Because of that, Shirou's archery is slower than Archer and thus useless in actual combat, since it's more of a phylosophical thing than a martial art.

And Archer can fight even without UBW. UBW only increases the speed of projection and number of projectable at the same time swords, which is useful only against Goldie really. For Shirou, UBW also brings the quality of the projected swords to the best possible, but Archer is already a master in projection, so that is moot.
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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby Chaos Chaud » June 5th, 2009, 11:05 pm

SolarAdept wrote:Shirou uses kyuudo, while Archer uses kyuujutsu, as mentioned in Fate. Basically, it's meaning over technique. Because of that, Shirou's archery is slower than Archer and thus useless in actual combat, since it's more of a phylosophical thing than a martial art.


Hmm, I was thinking of Shirou acting more like a Sniper or a support unit... Like he (possibly, depends of your choice) tried to backup Saber when she was facing Berserker in the forest (Fate route), he couldn't scratch berserker 'cause of the arrows' power, but maybe if he had better arrows... If you're talking about the technique, I think even kyuudo(bows) is better than nothing(swords) , since he basically just swings his swords around without any fighting style (well, except in UBW 'cause he copies Archer...)

SolarAdept wrote:And Archer can fight even without UBW. UBW only increases the speed of projection and number of projectable at the same time swords, which is useful only against Goldie really. For Shirou, UBW also brings the quality of the projected swords to the best possible, but Archer is already a master in projection, so that is moot.


I thought Archer didn't have to project anything while in UBW, he just had to keep the RM and the swords there. That is a great advantage even if the enemy is not Gil... Well, I have to play the game again to be sure...


Also, I fear that we're getting really, really offtopic here, so I highly recommend that we stop the discussion here. Or look for an appropriate thread for it...
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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby SolarAdept » June 6th, 2009, 10:22 am

Just a note: It was not the arrow's fault in Fate. It was the fact that Shirou's just a puny human and doesn't have enough strength to pierce Berserker's hide. Even if he had a damn Kaladbolg, he still wouldn't have enough power to propell it forward properly.
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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby makenna » June 6th, 2009, 6:46 pm

lets see....i dont really like the main charater bc he is to annoying. but for my faves here it is
my fav females charaters are 1.rin 2.saber
my fav male charaters are 1. archer 2. lancer 3. gilgamesh
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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby SolarAdept » June 6th, 2009, 7:19 pm

Wait till the second route of the game. Unless you already got spoiled by this thread or some wiki, it is sure to surprise you.
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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby Kikuchi » June 7th, 2009, 3:39 am

SolarAdept wrote:Wait till the second route of the game. Unless you already got spoiled by this thread or some wiki, it is sure to surprise you.
Oh really? I actually found that UBW Shirou has brought the bar of being-a-whiny-brat-ness to a whole level from Fate Shirou.
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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby solopy567 » June 7th, 2009, 3:42 am

Bratness? On the contrary, the UBW and HF routes bring out the better parts of Shirou unlike Fate, because he actually accomplishes something in them.
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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby Kikuchi » June 7th, 2009, 3:43 am

solopy567 wrote:Bratness? On the contrary, the UBW and HF routes bring out the better parts of Shirou unlike Fate, because he actually accomplishes something in them.
HF, yes. UBW Shirou? Exactly a 5-year-old whiny brat, he is.
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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby Soulshade » June 7th, 2009, 8:32 am

Kikuchi wrote:
solopy567 wrote:Bratness? On the contrary, the UBW and HF routes bring out the better parts of Shirou unlike Fate, because he actually accomplishes something in them.
HF, yes. UBW Shirou? Exactly a 5-year-old whiny brat, he is.


r u kidding me? fate shirou is such a loser. even with people telling him that becoming a hero will only get u killed, (Saber being a example) he still whines about " I wanna be a Superhero " rubbish while in UBW and HF he does something thats actually useful, ( Mastering UBW at an age probably earlier than his fate alias, and in HF, becoming godlike and destroying Berserker and Saber ).
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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby Kikuchi » June 7th, 2009, 9:39 am

Soulshade wrote:r u kidding me? fate shirou is such a loser. even with people telling him that becoming a hero will only get u killed, (Saber being a example) he still whines about " I wanna be a Superhero "
Was UBW Shirou any different? Archer's warning was by far harsher than Saber's, yet UBW Shirou still went on being a dickhead and stubborn little brat.

Mastering UBW at younger age? Just because a character can do something cooler doesn't mean he is better as a whole character. Frankly, that is the only aspect UBW Shirou can boast over Fate Shirou - having cooler tricks.
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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby Vhailor » June 7th, 2009, 9:56 am

Saying Shirou is acting like a brat doesn't fit the situation. He is not some kind of spoiled child who wants his candy, don't you read the novel? He is broken. He has no self (so many hints, omg. The Kyudo scene for exemple.). Maybe the post HF 4 desaster was totally different on this point but something in him died this day and now, he lives for the other people. He is not egocentric, he is over concerned by the people surrounding him and can't stand someone being hurt in front.
You can't except Shirou acting like a normal person because, in a certain way, he has a mental desease.
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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby SolarAdept » June 7th, 2009, 10:14 am

^ That. Just like Kotomine, he is a defected human being. Comparison between Fate and UBW plots:

Fate
  • Shirou: I want to save everybody!
END.

UBW
  • Shirou: I want to save everybody!
  • Archer: That is both a logical contradiction and a denial of the self.
  • Shirou: But the ideal encompasses an aesthetic that makes the endless journey worth it. Why can't I selfishly pursue selflessness?
  • Archer: FUCK.
  • Gilgamesh: MONGRELS! THOSE SWORDS ARE FUCKING PATENTED!
END.
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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby Kikuchi » June 8th, 2009, 12:32 am

SolarAdept wrote:^ That. Just like Kotomine, he is a defected human being. Comparison between Fate and UBW plots:

Fate
  • Shirou: I want to save everybody!
END.

UBW
  • Shirou: I want to save everybody!
  • Archer: That is both a logical contradiction and a denial of the self.
  • Shirou: But the ideal encompasses an aesthetic that makes the endless journey worth it. Why can't I selfishly pursue selflessness?
  • Archer: FUCK.
  • Gilgamesh: MONGRELS! THOSE SWORDS ARE FUCKING PATENTED!
END.
No. More like:

Fate
  • Shirou: I want to save everybody!
    For the sake of the people left and died in the fire... I will live on, and save as many as I could in return.
END.

UBW
  • Shirou: I want to save everybody!
  • Archer: That is both a logical contradiction and a denial of the self.
  • Shirou: But the ideal encompasses an aesthetic that makes the endless journey worth it. Why can't I selfishly pursue selflessness?
  • Archer: Because this is what you'll become *points at self*.
  • Shirou: No, I won't be like you. I'll prove that you're wrong.
END.

He doesn't have any stronger reason to pursue the ideal than to prove Archer wrong in UBW. Not childish enough? I have other numerous scenes in UBW that clearly indicates Shirou behaving like a stubborn 5 year old brat.
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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby SolarAdept » June 8th, 2009, 8:18 pm

He proved that Archer was wrong in their fight already. More than being childish(which he is not), it's the only way of life he knows. Only reason HF Shirou didn't do the same was that he had a strong reason not to(Sakura).

Off topic, that post I made was ripped off from tvtropes's list of tropes on FSN.
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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby abscess » June 8th, 2009, 9:06 pm

As I remember it, Shirou didn't prove Archer wrong, but Archer felt once again the "beauty" of self-sacrificing for the sake of others when seeing Shirou, pretty much unconscious, bash away at him. I think that the drive that made Shirou keep going without regard of how injured or how foolish it seemed that ideal, made Archer; in the end, remember what he used to believe. Probably believe once again, if only for a little moment, that it could be attained.
Shirou didn't learn a single thing about his ideal, only had more conviction.

In HF he changed that ideal for obvious reasons. Maybe it's not much of a change but an adaptation of it. He will still sacrifice himself for Sakura, but at least she can be happy knowing that it was out of love and he won't be forgotten.
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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby Vhailor » June 8th, 2009, 10:00 pm

The scene when Shiro turn his back to his true ideal was so sad. I was getting the feeling something in him just died :'( ! He just make a so strong sacrifice for the sake of Sakura, zomg!
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Re: Favourite Character....Whats Yours?

Unread postby Kikuchi » June 9th, 2009, 2:03 am

SolarAdept wrote:He proved that Archer was wrong in their fight already. More than being childish(which he is not), it's the only way of life he knows.
Yeah? So what's the reason for their fight? That whole Archer vs Shirou is the climax / summary of UBW, where Shirou (would) prove Archer wrong. He thought that the ideal was beautiful, but became more stubborn as Archer reprimanded him not to. Not childish enough?
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