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Unread postby NonExistence » February 15th, 2009, 6:50 am

comment on taking out honorifics and "westernizing" them: *all turn to hinatabokko translation*

'nuff said. suggest a SINGLE way to make it work without convoluted wording/mass confusion. or sounding lame.

the whole point of keeping the honorifics in the first place is because there is NO physically possible way to casually throw in character relationships like they do in japanese without it getting redundant. if those nuances of superiority, inferiority, and equality are gone then it really IS paramount to killing the visual novel.
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Unread postby -Shiki- » February 15th, 2009, 2:27 pm

Well..Maybe fsn is too hard for someone who juz started visual novels? It MIGHT spin some people around especially those unexposed to visual novels..
So, instead of changing the visual novel to an akward condition for avid visual novel fans, why not introduce other visual novel which are easier and simpler to get their interest in? There are tons of visual novels out there so get the genre which they are comfortable with.. Besides, you can help them if they are confused.. Would NEVER imagine borrowing my visual novel copy to someone who is not a friend close enough :P Risky :roll: :D :D :D

Juz a cookie for thought :lol:
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Unread postby abscess » February 17th, 2009, 1:12 am

ILPPendant wrote:No.
It is not "inconceivably senseless" to convert from the mainstream style in one language to the mainstream style in another.

It actually is. Every people who read books I've met would rather read the books in their original language if they can. Translation is a way of paraphrasing an author into another laguage, and translators try to stick to not only what but also how the author wanted to express the story.
Changing the style is practically a complete rewording for every single sentence. It's not only much harder but it's also a way to mangle the authors original words.

ILPPendant wrote:It is a natural thing to do.

To say that it is a "natural thing to do" would mean that it happens quite often, sorry, but I've yet to find any book, story or even a piece of news that wants to be passed as a translation that has been changed the way you say.
I'd be grateful if you could give me some examples

ILPPendant wrote:If an English book (written in the past tense, as per norm) is translated to Japanese, then it would be transfered to the present tense. Why not the other way round?

I can't say that I've read a book in japanese, let alone a book that was translated from english to japanese, but I've read pieces of english translations of books that were originally in spanish:
Cien anos the soledad
La Casa de los Espiritus
Heck, even between translations!:
Siddartha
The Stranger
The Plague
From what I've read and understood, I can say that they were mostly the same thing; yes even the style. A style of writing isn't only if you write in past or present tense, it englobes quite a load of more crap that I don't quite care to remember at the moment.

ILPPendant wrote:Keeping it in the past tense would give readers the impression that the writing style is somehow unique or important. Likewise, when I heard that Nasu was considered an unusual writer, I immediately assumed it was (partly) because he had written FSN in the present tense, when all the other games I had played were in the past tense.

Almost every other VN, be it eroge or not, the ones not written in present form are rather numbered, probably it's just me. Either way, I don't see how writing in past tense will make a scene feel more "unique" or "important", on the contrary.
At any rate, I don't think that it is only that Nasu writes in present form, but the narrative we follow. In most common stories, we follow an ordered exposition by the author or the character about the events that happened or are happening, but in this case we don't follow a story that is being told to us, but a character's thought process, his so called "inner voice" or whatever. To rephrase all the story would certainly be odd at best. The parts where the main character was surprised by the turn of events or when he dies would be good examples: "How come that the character is telling me about something past if a happy unicorn just stabbed his/her head and the brains were all over the floor?" "How is it that the character is surprised that a dog took a bite of his/her head? Wouldn't he had already seen it coming since it already happenned?"

ILPPendant wrote:I really don't see how you concluded I was advocating homogenising all writing styles and forms into the standard past tense practice.

Well, I was jumping to conclusions and I was wrong at that, sorry. But I still say that you are wrong in this.
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Unread postby ILPPendant » March 1st, 2009, 11:45 pm

Oh dear, I got overloaded with Uni coursework and forgot about this thread. My apologies.

AddleBoy wrote:I appreciate the translations that mirrormoon have provided, but the only reason I would read anything that is translated is that I can't understand the original language. When I read a foreign novel or watch a foreign movie, the main reason I watch them is because I want a foreign experience. The same thing goes for Fate/Stay Night. Westernizing it too much would be like having pizza available at a Chinese buffet. Why the hell would you go to a Chinese buffet to eat pizza?

I spent one hundred and twenty American dollars so I could enjoy a good story. I very much doubt you spent (presumably) a similar amount so you could enjoy reading Japanese terms mixed into English.

Is that not what you intended by your analogy? The objective of going to a Chinese buffet is to eat Chinese food; eating pizza defeats that objective, we all agree on that. However, by likening removing the superfluous Japanese to eating pizza the implication is that the original purpose has been frustated. Since what has been changed is the language then one would presume that it was the objective.*

A better analogy would be a Chinese restaurant where the menus were kept in Chinese in the interest of preserving the "flavour" (no pun intended) of the experience. That restaurant would get customers, certainly. Some may enjoy and fully appreciate the gesture but I wonder how many simply learnt the pictographs by rote rather than actually understanding what they meant. I also wonder how many were turned off by the fact that they had to have a dictionary on hand to order anything.



NonExistence wrote:comment on taking out honorifics and "westernizing" them: *all turn to hinatabokko translation*

'nuff said. suggest a SINGLE way to make it work without convoluted wording/mass confusion. or sounding lame.

the whole point of keeping the honorifics in the first place is because there is NO physically possible way to casually throw in character relationships like they do in japanese without it getting redundant. if those nuances of superiority, inferiority, and equality are gone then it really IS paramount to killing the visual novel.

I haven't seen the Hinatabokko translation. In fact, I hadn't even heard of the game.

I've got an example I'm rather fond of. In one of the Haruhi Suzumiya novels (I forget which one) the student council president is chewing Yuki Nagato out because the literature club has yet to produce anything constructive. During the scene he consistently calls her "Nagato-kun", which is a little different from the usage I'm familiar with. Fortunately, translator's notes come to the rescue and explain that this would normally be friendly, but here it indicates that the president is sneering at her. (No explanation or justification for either use is provided, naturally.) However, we can work with this: "Nagato-kun" can become "Ms. Nagato" and the dialogue can be tweaked to become more formal, giving it a sardonic edge.

Or, if you prefer a less verbose example, I was watching a fansub of Escaflowne and "Amano-sempai" became "Captain Amano" (the guy in question was indeed captain of the athletics team). I remember thinking that was very clever.

Of course, never let it be said that I cherry-pick ideal situations; why don't you give me an example from somewhere to "solve"? However, please be aware that I am not a translator - I may not be able to give you a satisfactory answer. (That doesn't mean one doesn't exist, just that my training is insufficient.)

I am well aware of the motivations behind retaining foreign words, I just don't happen to agree with them. I prioritise integrity of the English and elegance in the writing.



abscess wrote:It actually is. Every people who read books I've met would rather read the books in their original language if they can. Translation is a way of paraphrasing an author into another laguage, and translators try to stick to not only what but also how the author wanted to express the story.
Changing the style is practically a complete rewording for every single sentence. It's not only much harder but it's also a way to mangle the authors original words.

On the first three sentences: I couldn't have said it better myself. I too would love to be able to read books in their original language, and I envy people who can, but sadly it isn't to be.
On the fourth and fifth sentences: Just because it's hard doesn't mean the translator shouldn't do it. In fact, it's imperative that he does, because otherwise it's the poor reader who has to sort through the mess.


abscess wrote:To say that it is a "natural thing to do" would mean that it happens quite often, sorry, but I've yet to find any book, story or even a piece of news that wants to be passed as a translation that has been changed the way you say.
I'd be grateful if you could give me some examples

Off the top of my head... the Full Metal Panic novels, the Shakugan no Shana novels, numerous professional VN translations, a number of novel translations on Baka-Tsuki. Shall I continue or do you want justifications for each one?


abscess wrote:I can't say that I've read a book in japanese, let alone a book that was translated from english to japanese, but I've read pieces of english translations of books that were originally in spanish:
Cien anos the soledad
La Casa de los Espiritus
Heck, even between translations!:
Siddartha
The Stranger
The Plague
From what I've read and understood, I can say that they were mostly the same thing; yes even the style. A style of writing isn't only if you write in past or present tense, it englobes quite a load of more crap that I don't quite care to remember at the moment.

You sound like a very well-read person. Unfortunately, none of those books appear to be originally in Japanese so I'm not entirely sure what your point is. If a style is special (and aren't they all in some way?) then yes a translator must absolutely convey the same meaning in English. If I was a French person reading a translation of The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time I would be royally republically(?) cheesed off if the translator made no attempt to mould the French in a similar fashion to the English style. On the other hand, if it's just a personal tic then many readers in the native language might not notice it.


abscess wrote:
ILPPendant wrote:Keeping it in the past tense would give readers the impression that the writing style is somehow unique or important. Likewise, when I heard that Nasu was considered an unusual writer, I immediately assumed it was (partly) because he had written FSN in the present tense, when all the other games I had played were in the past tense.

Almost every other VN, be it eroge or not, the ones not written in present form are rather numbered, probably it's just me. Either way, I don't see how writing in past tense will make a scene feel more "unique" or "important", on the contrary.
At any rate, I don't think that it is only that Nasu writes in present form, but the narrative we follow. In most common stories, we follow an ordered exposition by the author or the character about the events that happened or are happening, but in this case we don't follow a story that is being told to us, but a character's thought process, his so called "inner voice" or whatever. To rephrase all the story would certainly be odd at best. The parts where the main character was surprised by the turn of events or when he dies would be good examples: "How come that the character is telling me about something past if a happy unicorn just stabbed his/her head and the brains were all over the floor?" "How is it that the character is surprised that a dog took a bite of his/her head? Wouldn't he had already seen it coming since it already happenned?"

I've just read this quote and reread mine. And then I read my whole post again and concluded I'm an incapable proofreader and an even worse typist.

What ILPPendant wanted to say wrote:Keeping it in the present tense would give readers the impression that the writing style is somehow unique or important. Likewise, when I heard that Nasu was considered an unusual writer, I immediately assumed it was (partly) because he had written FSN in the present tense, when all the other games I had played were in the past tense.

Does everything fall into place now? This was a mistake wholly on my part and I am sorry.


abscess wrote:Well, I was jumping to conclusions and I was wrong at that, sorry. But I still say that you are wrong in this.

Now that I've cleared this up, is my position a little more palatable?



*You have no idea how many iterations this paragraph went through, and I'm still not satisfied with it.

EDIT: Cleaned up a little.
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Unread postby NonExistence » March 2nd, 2009, 3:27 am

no, not really.

in the case of suzumiya haruhi, the idea you suggested could work; however, there is something you missed. -kun is normally used to address BOYS. YOUNGER BOYS. in this case, it put the president at a better position to condescend, while the use of that particular honorific suggested a mocking tone through the way it's intoned alone. something like "Ms. Nagato" wouldn't capture the full of it.

the escaflowne one was the translator's choice, and by doing so, the translator did what is called "appropriating" the work. they added something into it that was not originally intended. i wouldn't know whether that had repercussions in this case, but it could very well kill off some subtle meaning in a text if done too much. the point is, it wasn't the author's original intention.

now for a situation for you to "solve":

i'm going to use hinatabokko again for the example. in it koharu, the main character (natsuki)'s sister, refers to him as "natsu-nii". of course, this is using the first part of his name with "nii" (the japanese word for older brother) attached at the end. this method was simple, efficient, immediately cleared up their relationship, and not to mention added an extremely cute side to koharu (for using "brother" as an honorific). i would like for you to suggest something that would work just as effectively, just as efficiently, just as appropriately, and not make her sound like some sort of triad member. (and i proceed to lol at the thought of her saying "older brother natsuki".)

preferring integrity of the English is fine, but it's not worth slaughtering the details for, because it's those little details that separate the good from the bad. just as "all your base are belong to us" is funny to anyone who speaks english, a translation that is completely localization substituted can turn out extremely funny (for the wrong reasons) and disappointing for someone who can compare it to the original. and the thing about elegance? the whole point of keeping in all the japanese stuff is to keep the elegance intact. that is, the elegance of ideas rather than the elegance of words. if i had to choose between something that had subtle nuances of character development, plot, and ideas, and something that flows better (and not by much, i'd add), i'd rather go for the ideas.
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Unread postby Undream » March 2nd, 2009, 4:30 am

AddleBoy wrote:I appreciate the translations that mirrormoon have provided, but the only reason I would read anything that is translated is that I can't understand the original language. When I read a foreign novel or watch a foreign movie, the main reason I watch them is because I want a foreign experience. The same thing goes for Fate/Stay Night. Westernizing it too much would be like having pizza available at a Chinese buffet. Why the hell would you go to a Chinese buffet to eat pizza?


To eat chinese pizza ?

lol jk
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Unread postby sabata2 » March 2nd, 2009, 8:04 am

Undream wrote:
AddleBoy wrote:I appreciate the translations that mirrormoon have provided, but the only reason I would read anything that is translated is that I can't understand the original language. When I read a foreign novel or watch a foreign movie, the main reason I watch them is because I want a foreign experience. The same thing goes for Fate/Stay Night. Westernizing it too much would be like having pizza available at a Chinese buffet. Why the hell would you go to a Chinese buffet to eat pizza?


To eat chinese pizza ?

lol jk

Touche.
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Unread postby Kuuya/Fabre » March 2nd, 2009, 8:39 am

Kuuya - It's a good thing a good amount of Japanese terms can be easily translated to Filipino, right Fabre?

Fabre - Yup, and so when they get translated here they tend to be -family friendly-

Kuuya - Family friendly? What are you talking about. They translated and dubbed "Shana" here and you call that family friendly?

Fabre - Well, there's less cussing with some of the anime shown here. And I kinda like the fact that we get to see them in their uncut glory.

Kuuya - the way you say 'uncut glory' somehow made my skin crawl... stupid caterpillar.

Fabre - that from a guy who thinks Saber Alter is hot?

Kuuya - damn you! I like her the way she is. That pale, deathly skin. The yellow eyes...

Fabre - Now, you're the one who's creeping me out...
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Unread postby Soulbringer » March 2nd, 2009, 8:50 am

Honorifics were once part of the english language (atleast in dayli life (excluding very fine resturants (cant spell right now))) but thats a long time ago, and was not at any point as meaningful as the Japanese honorifics are (basicly agreeing with most of the people posting in the thread).
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Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » March 2nd, 2009, 7:19 pm

What do you mean once? We still use Mr. and Mrs. and they get the job done in formal scenarios. Keeping the Japanese honorific is just for avoiding confusion and preserving some of its original flavour. Honorifics in all cultures are just a necessity for social interactions to express respect, there is no such thing as one being more meaningful than the other, just a matter of variety.

Like Mr. in English can be the equivalent for -san and -sensei.
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Unread postby sabata2 » March 2nd, 2009, 7:52 pm

Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:What do you mean once? We still use Mr. and Mrs. and they get the job done in formal scenarios. Keeping the Japanese honorific is just for avoiding confusion and preserving some of its original flavour. Honorifics in all cultures are just a necessity for social interactions to express respect, there is no such thing as one being more meaningful than the other, just a matter of variety.

Like Mr. in English can be the equivalent for -san and -sensei.
Be mindful of rule 44, ahahaha.

Could we then say that "Sir" would be more equivalent to -sempai?

It's be pretty awkward to hear (or more accurately, read) Sakura saying "sir" everytime she references Shirou.
"Sir, you stay in bed, I'll make breakfast."
"How about we have lunch together in the Archery building then sir?"
"Yes, I can do that sir."
"You shouldn't overexert yourself when you're sick sir!"
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Unread postby Keeper of Gil's Vault » March 2nd, 2009, 8:39 pm

The Western Sir mostly acknowledges age and status. The Eastern Sempai and its various equivalents acknowledge mostly experience in an area (such as school or an occupation).
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Unread postby sabata2 » March 2nd, 2009, 8:51 pm

That's kinda my point. Western Honorifics are limited when translating from Japanese to English.
Sir and Madam really are the only ones I can think of that would fit -sempai.
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Unread postby ILPPendant » March 3rd, 2009, 12:54 am

Oh wow, it's enormous fun defending myself against an entire forum.

NonExistence wrote:no, not really.

in the case of suzumiya haruhi, the idea you suggested could work; however, there is something you missed. -kun is normally used to address BOYS. YOUNGER BOYS. in this case, it put the president at a better position to condescend, while the use of that particular honorific suggested a mocking tone through the way it's intoned alone. something like "Ms. Nagato" wouldn't capture the full of it.

I am well aware of its normal use, do I need to start shaking my cane around to convince everyone that I have a basic grasp of the whole honourific concept? But hey, let's assume I'm green, shall we? Explain to me how I, a novice at all this, am supposed to fully appreciate the usage of -kun in the same way a Japanese reader would. Don't forget that I have been raised in an exclusively English-speaking environment so everything I know I know from reading Wikipedia and TVTropes.
Given the high school setting, I think using "Ms." rather effectively conveys the sneer apparent, but just for the sake of argument, what would you use?


NonExistence wrote:the escaflowne one was the translator's choice, and by doing so, the translator did what is called "appropriating" the work. they added something into it that was not originally intended. i wouldn't know whether that had repercussions in this case, but it could very well kill off some subtle meaning in a text if done too much. the point is, it wasn't the author's original intention.

I'm pretty sure the author intended for his work to be understood and appreciated, not contain numerous foreign words that you have to be in the right "club" to understand.
Incidentally, the decision had no repercussions and rather elegantly summed up Hitomi's (for it was she) demeanour to Amano.
I would dispute your accusation of appropriation. Usually we reserve that for things like what the Romans did to the religions of the European tribes. Don't worry, transparent translations of cartoons and video games are most certainly not going to cause native Japanese culture to collapse and assimilate into America.


NonExistence wrote:now for a situation for you to "solve":

i'm going to use hinatabokko again for the example. in it koharu, the main character (natsuki)'s sister, refers to him as "natsu-nii". of course, this is using the first part of his name with "nii" (the japanese word for older brother) attached at the end. this method was simple, efficient, immediately cleared up their relationship, and not to mention added an extremely cute side to koharu (for using "brother" as an honorific). i would like for you to suggest something that would work just as effectively, just as efficiently, just as appropriately, and not make her sound like some sort of triad member. (and i proceed to lol at the thought of her saying "older brother natsuki".)

Well, for starters you'll hear no argument from me that "older brother Natsuki" sounds idiotic. (Also, I believe triad members would use "da ge".)
For me, this presents a similar problem to Fuji-nee, which I have been unable to solve to my satisfaction. I have an idea but I'd like to know more specifically how Koharu was introduced since I want to confirm something.


NonExistence wrote:preferring integrity of the English is fine, but it's not worth slaughtering the details for, because it's those little details that separate the good from the bad. just as "all your base are belong to us" is funny to anyone who speaks english, a translation that is completely localization substituted can turn out extremely funny (for the wrong reasons) and disappointing for someone who can compare it to the original. and the thing about elegance? the whole point of keeping in all the japanese stuff is to keep the elegance intact. that is, the elegance of ideas rather than the elegance of words. if i had to choose between something that had subtle nuances of character development, plot, and ideas, and something that flows better (and not by much, i'd add), i'd rather go for the ideas.

Are you seriously comparing "all your base are belong to us" to (proper) professional translations? Well, Hinatabokko appears to have been done by someone they pulled off the street who claimed he had a JLPT 2 certificate so I suppose I can understand your misgivings.
If you read and digest my posts (admittedly no mean feat given their length and verbosity) you'll see that a good translation will not "slaughter" any details but will incorporate them in a way for the target audience to appreciate in the language they are most familiar with.

One more thing: if you prioritise preserving the original meaning over something that flows then you must without exception also include pronouns, verb endings (well, verbs in general to be honest) and some particles since these are all just as important as honourifics. In fact, it's probably best if you leave everything save nouns and verb "stems" untranslated. That way you're getting the full experience the original author "intended".
(I hate to say this since it makes me sound like an ass but it is the logical conclusion of that argument.)



Soulbringer wrote:Honorifics were once part of the english language (atleast in dayli life (excluding very fine resturants (cant spell right now))) but thats a long time ago, and was not at any point as meaningful as the Japanese honorifics are (basicly agreeing with most of the people posting in the thread).

But we do still use honourifics. (Well, I certainly do.) Mister, Miss, Missus, Ms. (someone tell me the longhand for that please) are but a few.



Keeper of Gil's Vault wrote:What do you mean once? We still use Mr. and Mrs. and they get the job done in formal scenarios. Keeping the Japanese honorific is just for avoiding confusion and preserving some of its original flavour. Honorifics in all cultures are just a necessity for social interactions to express respect, there is no such thing as one being more meaningful than the other, just a matter of variety.

Like Mr. in English can be the equivalent for -san and -sensei.
Be mindful of rule 44, ahahaha.

Indeed it can, but it can also be the equivalent for -sama, -dono, -kun and -sempai.
To say Japanese honourifics are used to avoid conclusion is so wrong it's almost comical. Somewhere up there in my mammoth post I gave an example involving the use of -kun. Neither Wikipedia nor TVTropes would have been of any help and a lesser translator would simply have left it there with no explanation, leaving the reader to suss it out. Just how is that less confusing than simply using English honorifics, of which we are all completely familiar and comfortable with?



sabata2 wrote:That's kinda my point. Western Honorifics are limited when translating from Japanese to English.
Sir and Madam really are the only ones I can think of that would fit -sempai.

Why on Earth would you use "Sir" or "Madam" when translating "sempai"? I have never encountered a situation where that would be appropriate. I suppose you might get away with it if it was a military setting but I'd be hard-pressed to contrive a situation for it to arise.

If it's just the Shirou-Sakura relationship we're talking about then I think a viable solution would be to simply have her address him "Shirou" and then tweak her dialogue where necessary to add an element of deference. Now that I think about it, one could use this as a substitute for the not-calling-Shirou-"sempai" bit which some of the earlier thread participants guard so jealously.

Here's another one: why do you think Tohsaka calls Shirou "Emiya-kun" when she's in her faux school idol mode? It's the default form of address one would expect from someone behaving at least a little aloof to her colleagues; as politeness goes it's pretty neutral, in an English-speaking context the norm would simply be "Emiya". However, when she lets her hair down she slips into her more casual form of speech, using Shirou's first name and dropping the honourific, and throwing the poor guy off completely in the process. It's a big deal in Japanese but since what I described is pretty normal to use people's first names in English the effect mostly is lost on Westerners. Indeed, while you may be aware that an honourific is absent I bet that nine times out of ten you won't attach the significance it is due.
Yes... the most important "honourific" has the least impact on foreign readers. Funny old world, innit?
Luckily, it's just not Tohsaka's speech but also her manner that changes, so we at least have a chance to see why Shirou is so off balance.

Translation is not a bijection that maps two cardinally equal languages to each other. Translating to and fro consists of two surjections that only occasionally coincide.
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Unread postby -Shiki- » March 3rd, 2009, 2:41 am

Another fearsome LVL10 counter arguement :lol:
Good stuff to read during breaks :P
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Unread postby ILPPendant » March 3rd, 2009, 11:18 am

Why thank you. I aim to please.

Although it's pretty easy to construct a solid argument when you spend roughly two hours composing each reply. (Not this one, obviously!)
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Unread postby inferno_flamex » March 3rd, 2009, 11:51 am

Honorifics...

You know.. The easiest way and most probably the best way to deal with that... is...

like some translations.. fan-made or otherwise...
..

THey actually HAVE a 'help' booklet...

giving abit of a quick lesson on -kuns, -samas, sempais... Etc etc..
..

From the way i see it.. Theres no FRIGGING WAY ANYTHING can be translated into ANY Language... EXACTLY the same... as how its supposed to be meant...

no way.. no effing friggin way..

...
Not unless you have that bit of understanding for the language in the first place... Therefore.. once again.. in comes the 'built-in Help booklet'...
..
....

Besides.. I dont mean to be rude or offensive.. or anything...

But.. WHat's so great about the English language.. Or ANY language in particular.. that whatever it is, that is to be translated must be 'fully, and completely' translated to a perfect degree?
"When a petanko hugs you, she's hugging closer to her heart"...
~:~:~
"There is no greater love, between a boy and his pillow"
~:~:~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ_FT_c3IiQ
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Unread postby Shourai » March 3rd, 2009, 11:59 am

inferno_flamex wrote:Honorifics...

You know.. The easiest way and most probably the best way to deal with that... is...

like some translations.. fan-made or otherwise...
..

THey actually HAVE a 'help' booklet...

giving abit of a quick lesson on -kuns, -samas, sempais... Etc etc..
mm (TakaJun) used to provide some guide in the notepad file in your installation folder...

But.. WHat's so great about the English language.. Or ANY language in particular.. that whatever it is, that is to be translated must be 'fully, and completely' translated to a perfect degree?
One of the reasons I can find why most people (90% of them are fan-based groups) tend to leave a part of the language untranslated is to keep its original flavor. Translating it completely could change the work into something completely different. Even when I read Harry Potter in my native language, the "urgh, should have been this instead of that" could never disappear.
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Unread postby Gilyu » March 4th, 2009, 5:33 am

I couldnt help but think that you are basicly asking MM to pull a "4kids" on the VN... Let's replace every foreing references with western ones...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what Im understanding and while your intents might have been good, doing so will not help the VN.
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Unread postby nobaka » March 4th, 2009, 6:33 am

@ILPPendant:

Ms. = Miss

Term for an unmarried woman.
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