Why do you think Archer is GAR?

It's alright, we feel your pain. Noone wants to admit being gar for Berserker.

Moderator: Staffers

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby Chaos Chaud » May 25th, 2009, 3:55 pm

Kikuchi wrote:TL; DR Archer is a KSer. Gil is far too honorable to do that. That's why he's beyond GAR.


But Archer killed someone Shirou was killing... that one doesn't count as ks...

Also, in UBW
Gil tried to kill Shirou after he was almost dead 'cause of the fight with Archer


So Gil is the KSer here...
"Let Chaos consume your soul, and you won't be neither good nor evil, neither light nor darkness. You will be hollow, will be future, will be freedom." -Chaos Chaud
"You defeat him" -GARcher
"Drown in your ideals and die" -GARcher
"My spine hurts. My body is cold. My fingers are frozen. Yet, my brain burns with fire."- T. Shiki
User avatar
Chaos Chaud
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 358
Joined: March 21st, 2009, 4:10 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » May 25th, 2009, 4:49 pm

Chaos Chaud wrote:
Kikuchi wrote:TL; DR Archer is a KSer. Gil is far too honorable to do that. That's why he's beyond GAR.


But Archer killed someone Shirou was killing... that one doesn't count as ks...

Also, in UBW
Gil tried to kill Shirou after he was almost dead 'cause of the fight with Archer


So Gil is the KSer here...


Indeed Archer actually saved Shirou not once, but twice in the UBW story. Once in the middle of their fight when Gil decided to step in on the matter. The other then he had to save Shirou at the end. I mean Shirou didn't have anything left when Gil tried to save himself. So there's no way Archer is like that, besides that was more like a Support Kill if you ask me.

Also, I have to agree with Chaos Chaud here on that matter as well about Gil.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.
User avatar
Kid-Wolf
I can haz postingz nao? K thx
 
Posts: 1833
Joined: August 31st, 2008, 8:08 pm
Location: Inside the Depletion Garden

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby Uberoy » May 25th, 2009, 5:43 pm

Chaos Chaud wrote:
Also, in UBW
Gil tried to kill Shirou after he was almost dead 'cause of the fight with Archer


So Gil is the KSer here...


Hey, you can't blame Gil for Shirou's lack of regeneration. If he isn't ready when the king wants to play he only have himself to blame.
But I shall forgive you. Some things are beautiful because they cannot be obtained.
User avatar
Uberoy
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 339
Joined: May 4th, 2008, 9:11 pm
Location: In your base, killing your d00ds

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby Catastrophe » May 25th, 2009, 5:45 pm

hmmm... basing myself a bit in the VIRTUS thing, it somehow gets to mean "Honorable deaths"

so:
Gil's "Honorable Deaths" count = 0
GAR level = 0
"We want a game that's going to chop us the second we screw around, or just flatten us at its whim... until we finally beat it. They demand more of us, and we rise to the occasion because we're that good. And that feels good. And that's why we game."
Rus McLaughlin, IGN
User avatar
Catastrophe
DESU DESU!
 
Posts: 734
Joined: December 18th, 2007, 3:40 am
Location: Trust me.... you DONT wanna know.

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby Dark_Habit » May 25th, 2009, 6:48 pm

Reality check : Isn't this topic supposed to be about those who are GAR and not about those who aren't?
Besides, everyone has there preferences.As they say "one man's stone is another man's gold" (Hell yeah that was original !).
Life is but a River.
A continuous flow,relentless till it reaches its destination.
Rocks,rapids,falls hinder not the flow of the strong.
It has its ups,and its downs.
And in the end,peacefully.......
It dissipates into to vast Ocean.
User avatar
Dark_Habit
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 275
Joined: May 23rd, 2009, 9:51 am
Location: Next to Death

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby Uberoy » May 25th, 2009, 6:54 pm

This thread is about why Archer is Gar, and since Gil is an Archer he's not off-topic.
But I shall forgive you. Some things are beautiful because they cannot be obtained.
User avatar
Uberoy
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 339
Joined: May 4th, 2008, 9:11 pm
Location: In your base, killing your d00ds

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby Dark_Habit » May 25th, 2009, 7:05 pm

Uberoy wrote:This thread is about why Archer is Gar, and since Gil is an Archer he's not off-topic.


Arrgh! Read what I wrote! I said we shouldn't be discussing about whose NOT Gar! I never said anything about Goldie.
Life is but a River.
A continuous flow,relentless till it reaches its destination.
Rocks,rapids,falls hinder not the flow of the strong.
It has its ups,and its downs.
And in the end,peacefully.......
It dissipates into to vast Ocean.
User avatar
Dark_Habit
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 275
Joined: May 23rd, 2009, 9:51 am
Location: Next to Death

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby Uberoy » May 25th, 2009, 7:37 pm

Well, you responded to someone who said that Gil wasn't Gar which means he's considered not gar which is one opinion in this discussion. A discussion needs more than one opinion or else we have a pretty dead thread.
But I shall forgive you. Some things are beautiful because they cannot be obtained.
User avatar
Uberoy
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 339
Joined: May 4th, 2008, 9:11 pm
Location: In your base, killing your d00ds

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby Dark_Habit » May 25th, 2009, 8:07 pm

Uberoy wrote:Well, you responded to someone who said that Gil wasn't Gar which means he's considered not gar which is one opinion in this discussion. A discussion needs more than one opinion or else we have a pretty dead thread.


Dang, I give up.
Life is but a River.
A continuous flow,relentless till it reaches its destination.
Rocks,rapids,falls hinder not the flow of the strong.
It has its ups,and its downs.
And in the end,peacefully.......
It dissipates into to vast Ocean.
User avatar
Dark_Habit
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 275
Joined: May 23rd, 2009, 9:51 am
Location: Next to Death

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » May 25th, 2009, 8:26 pm

Ok I'll give you this, Gil does have GAR-like moments in certain parts of the story I'll give you that. Although his aditude can come off as so not GAR that it kind of cancels most, if not all of his GARness. I mean
he kind of did have an honorable death in Fate with his battle against Saber, but that was the only time he died honorably. In UBW he was too scared to die. As for HF he didn't have a chance at all when he casually attacked Dark Sakura. So in HF he was actually pwned before he had a chance to retailiate from her quick recovery an absorption of him.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.
User avatar
Kid-Wolf
I can haz postingz nao? K thx
 
Posts: 1833
Joined: August 31st, 2008, 8:08 pm
Location: Inside the Depletion Garden

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby abscess » May 25th, 2009, 9:49 pm

Kid-Wolf wrote:Not only that, but
I mean he even killed a loli in the UBW route, so how is that considered GAR?

I actually thought that was something of a GAR moment from Gil. I was "Oh my fucking GOD, THAT'S BADASS!!". Not many people would kill children to get what they want, that's fucking ruthless and cruel, but that guy will step on anything and anyone to get it. As twisted and disgusting as it is, that demands some respect one way or another.
That is a completely debatable point, but those are my two cents. I'd say Gil is not GAR but badass and stupid.
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.
User avatar
abscess
I can haz postingz nao? K thx
 
Posts: 1939
Joined: April 25th, 2008, 10:08 am
Location: Parmistan lol

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » May 26th, 2009, 12:45 am

@abscess: So you're saying that Gil has all the taits for being GAR, but he doesn't use them properly due to his idoisy? I mean yes he does pull off the badass factor, but he sometimes tends to overplay it and then acts more like a pompus ass instead.

Although
I think he makes up for it a little bit in F/HA though since he doesn't kill anyone outright in a stpid manner or anything like that. Although he loses his GARness due to him being in his child-like form. I mean who knew he had a better persona as a kid?
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.
User avatar
Kid-Wolf
I can haz postingz nao? K thx
 
Posts: 1833
Joined: August 31st, 2008, 8:08 pm
Location: Inside the Depletion Garden

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby SolarAdept » June 1st, 2009, 7:02 pm

Gil-kid is affably evil. Gil-adult is a jerkass.

I wonder if the Archer in HF3 was GAR... or who he/she even was.
Fate/World Providence - A site dedicated to it's Grail War RP.
User avatar
SolarAdept
Crack Addic!
 
Posts: 239
Joined: April 19th, 2009, 12:30 pm

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » June 1st, 2009, 7:47 pm

Oddly enough I don't think they though be that far on the Servants that participated.
The only one that they did was Avenger from HF3.
As for the rest of the Servants they didn't say at all. Although I don't think they will go that deep for that since HF4 had a ten year difference from HF5, instead of 60+years from HF3 to HF4.

Although sometimes I wonder what were the Servants that were summoned in the first three HF Wars though, but the only Archers we currently know of is HF4 Archer, Gil. and HF5 Archer
as Emiya in a GAR-like state.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.
User avatar
Kid-Wolf
I can haz postingz nao? K thx
 
Posts: 1833
Joined: August 31st, 2008, 8:08 pm
Location: Inside the Depletion Garden

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby Uberoy » June 1st, 2009, 9:39 pm

Kid-Wolf wrote:Although sometimes I wonder what were the Servants that were summoned in the first three HF Wars though.[/spoil]


I wonder that aswell but I'm more interested in
How the grail was and used before it got tainted by Avenger.
But I shall forgive you. Some things are beautiful because they cannot be obtained.
User avatar
Uberoy
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 339
Joined: May 4th, 2008, 9:11 pm
Location: In your base, killing your d00ds

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby Chaos Chaud » June 1st, 2009, 9:57 pm

Uberoy wrote:I wonder that aswell but I'm more interested in
How the grail was and used before it got tainted by Avenger.


Me too...
"Let Chaos consume your soul, and you won't be neither good nor evil, neither light nor darkness. You will be hollow, will be future, will be freedom." -Chaos Chaud
"You defeat him" -GARcher
"Drown in your ideals and die" -GARcher
"My spine hurts. My body is cold. My fingers are frozen. Yet, my brain burns with fire."- T. Shiki
User avatar
Chaos Chaud
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 358
Joined: March 21st, 2009, 4:10 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby Vhailor » June 1st, 2009, 11:33 pm

Well, if i remember, the grail was in fact something means to keep the soul of the defeated heroic spirits before they go back to Akasha (Yes, i know, the servants are not the heroic spirit but some kind of copy. Never the less, if i read correctly HF, it seems they do return to the throne of heroes, maybe like a book mentionned by Archer.). They keep every souls and then, they release it to create something like a hole, because of the massiv prana, that will be a path for the mage to reach Akasha.
This is the theory BUT it never happened.
First HF, they just summon three heroic spirits (the three knights) and it was not enough.
Second HF, they decieved the magic association pretending the rituel of HF was a battleroyal were magi compete. But, again, a monstruous failure because the outragous powerful servants nuke everything and magi doesn't restrain themselves anymore, destroying the whole damn thing. This forced the magic association to ask the Church to act as a supervisor for the future Grail war.
And finaly, the Third war :p. Also a desaster ffs!
Vhailor
Addict
 
Posts: 79
Joined: November 11th, 2008, 3:08 pm

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby Kikuchi » June 1st, 2009, 11:59 pm

^Nicely put.
When will I get my 1337th post?
Kikuchi
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 253
Joined: January 7th, 2009, 2:34 pm

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » June 2nd, 2009, 12:13 am

So in the end it was a disaterous idea rom the getgo since the three families that begain this system of a war had different reasons to fight in the war.The Makiri (Matous) wanted eternal life, the Tohsakas wanted to obtain Origin, and the Einzberns just wanted the Grail itself. Although the way it was setup it could actually work in theory, but with the Summoning of Avenger in the 3rd HF canged how the Grail was supposed to work. Thus corrupting the way the Grail War is supposed to be.

Although if this is the case then Fyuki City should be considered as dangerous ground to Summon the Grail because of Avenger. Which comes to the theory of what would happen if the Grail War was summoned elsewere entirley, and will it have the same effect as it would in Fyuki City?
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.
User avatar
Kid-Wolf
I can haz postingz nao? K thx
 
Posts: 1833
Joined: August 31st, 2008, 8:08 pm
Location: Inside the Depletion Garden

Re: Why do you think Archer is GAR?

Unread postby Chaos Chaud » June 2nd, 2009, 12:50 am

It will depend. I think if they start doing the grail system from scratch, including they Great Holy Grail, it won't be contaminated. About the effect, it should differ according to how spiritually charged the land is. For an example, if the ritual was done in Aozaki's land(which is high spiritually charged) the ritual should be easier to perform and the effect should be more powerful.
"Let Chaos consume your soul, and you won't be neither good nor evil, neither light nor darkness. You will be hollow, will be future, will be freedom." -Chaos Chaud
"You defeat him" -GARcher
"Drown in your ideals and die" -GARcher
"My spine hurts. My body is cold. My fingers are frozen. Yet, my brain burns with fire."- T. Shiki
User avatar
Chaos Chaud
Crack Desu!
 
Posts: 358
Joined: March 21st, 2009, 4:10 pm
Location: Brazil

PreviousNext

Return to Fate/stay night Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest