Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

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Altima of the Gates
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Unread post by Altima of the Gates » February 3rd, 2009, 4:36 am

I chose not to deal with "what if". Sakura is Sakura, and Rin is Rin. Rin is stronger than Sakura as a magus, enough said. And the unlimited Prana she got in HF is because of the Grail. Once it's destroyed, she can no longer draw immense Prana from it.
No, you're wrong, in HF true it specifically said that she was continuing to gain more and more maryoku from her connection to the other side, to the point that she needs to periodically release it (i.e. to Rider, or during lovemaking with Shirou), so yes, she is still getting a steady supply, whether she wants to or not.
While it could be done together, there is still possibility Sakura will destroy the entire city first. Shirou knew that, still, he chose to close his eyes regarding that matter.
Sorry, but saying that she might have done that just doesn't cut it. The mother worm was still inside her, so killing her right off wouldn't have benefited anyone IMO. Hell, do you have any idea of the immediate repercussions of the "Superhero/Ally of Justice" bad end? I mean damn, Rin I know would've lost it after killing Sakura (try as she might to hide it), Zouken would've taken over Sakura's body (99.9% sure on that), then shit hits the fan until we have a big pile of crap on the floor. Its why I couldn't stand that bad end.

allanh
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Unread post by allanh » February 3rd, 2009, 4:39 am

Altima of the Gates wrote: I mean damn, Rin I know would've lost it after killing Sakura (try as she might to hide it), Zouken would've taken over Sakura's body (99.9% sure on that), then shit hits the fan until we have a big pile of crap on the floor. Its why I couldn't stand that bad end.
I don't think Zouken could have taken over Sakura's body once she is dead. He can only take over bodies that loses its soul but still physically alive. That's my understanding anyway.

Kikuchi
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Unread post by Kikuchi » February 3rd, 2009, 4:43 am

Altima of the Gates wrote:No, you're wrong, in HF true it specifically said that she was continuing to gain more and more maryoku from her connection to the other side, to the point that she needs to periodically release it (i.e. to Rider, or during lovemaking with Shirou), so yes, she is still getting a steady supply, whether she wants to or not.
My speculation : path to Akasha was still open by the time the Grail was destroyed. But it will gradually close since establishing a line like that isn't natural from the beginning. In time, she will lose that connection; AFAIK, she no longer has that kind of convenience by the time of F/ha. But if you want to bring it, then Rin could also use Zelretch (and pwn Sakura with it).

Sakura is weaker than Rin, by training, Magic Crest, combat tactics (hakkyokuken ftw), and assuming Sakura has the same number and quality of Magic Circuits as Rin, she'd still lose in direct one on one combat. If you are so curious, look here. Not Dark Sakura, but ha Sakura, since that is what Sakura would be under normal conditions. This is becoming more and more of powerlevel discussion, so let's just stop here.
Sorry, but saying that she might have done that just doesn't cut it. The mother worm was still inside her, so killing her right off wouldn't have benefited anyone IMO. Hell, do you have any idea of the immediate repercussions of the "Superhero/Ally of Justice" bad end? I mean damn, Rin I know would've lost it after killing Sakura (try as she might to hide it), Zouken would've taken over Sakura's body (99.9% sure on that), then shit hits the fan until we have a big pile of crap on the floor. Its why I couldn't stand that bad end.
We all know that Zouken was killed long before the mother worm was extracted from Sakura's body. Even if she were to destroy a city and were killed (dead, not living anymore), nobody could claim her body like you said.

With all due respect, can we stop "what ifs" to prevent more powerlevel discussions? :wink:
When will I get my 1337th post?

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Unread post by HeartCard » February 3rd, 2009, 6:03 am

We need Wonka just to burst in here and go "Now that's alot of Nerds!"
Oh well, we love our own fail.

Everyone:
As I stated.
from a character who was *insert rape+torture speech that has been said 3 times this time, and will probably be used another 5 before the topic is locked*.
That Rape+Torture speech has been used 4 times after my post. DON'T USE IT AGAIN OR THE TOPIC WILL BE LOCKED AS I PREDICTED!!!!!
D:


Unkind: I enjoy my E-Dickness.
It allows me to compensate for that fact that I'm not a Futagirl irl.
SUCK MY EGGS AND BACON!!!


Rikh: You made me lol. I keep forgetting about that.
Yes indeed. Saber is the only main heroine to do that. Six times infact:
Three times in Fate(Twice from Caster, once herself). Once in UBW(Caster uses Excess Reiju). And twice in HF(Dark Scali accident, and does Crane Wing count as Saber's fault or not? She WAS trying to...Kinda).



Allanh:
Certainly, were I a man I would choose Sakura over any heroine besides Illya. (Can we all just agree everyone got juked out of the best heroine and move on? No? Didn't think so. Isn't it sad, Illya?)

As for Love at first sight...No I would be a fool if I disbelieved such a possibility. A fool and a hypocrit. The later I care about. Then again, I am a person who understands subconscious commons. Who also recognizes that you can tell virtually everything about a person just from their physical appearence. From taste in clothes to skin texture and overall colouration(Not skincolour. Colouration. In other words, how your skincolour changes throughout your body. I suppose the term "Tan" would not be wholey wrong to say). For example, if a girl takes off her shirt and her chest is white while her arms and face are very tanned, then that shows she is outside alot in the sun obviously. Or if someone has mass acne, they are probably a stressed person. Such variables could easily determine if you will "Love" someone or not on first sight.
Though I highly doubt there are many people who will admit such.

Let's see...

You said you never called her a whore and that I should re-read your post. I almost apologize for not using quotes, on the other hand my posts are far too long as it is. So let me quote you this once:
allanh wrote: She became jealous, weak, low sense of morality and was selfish.
HeartBitch wrote: 3. "Low sense of Morality" - Excuse me, what? Are you calling her a whore? Are you stupid or something?Let's see, either:
A. You're saying that enjoying sex proves you have low morality. In which case you just need to be *Censored for the inner child* and then dragged out into the field and *Moar censorship*, and then picked up and *Censorship III: In 3D!!* until you're so *Censorship 4: This time its personal* you can't ever *use a censor tag* again.
B. You're calling her a whore from the start. Which clearly proves you were not reading very well. Sakura feels ashamed and loathes herself prior to each sex scene before Shirou coerces her that it's fine because he wants her.
C. You're refering to Moral like a Commander. Into:Pride. In which case, the hell did you expect from a character who was *insert rape+torture speech that has been said 3 times this time, and will probably be used another 5 before the topic is locked*.
Now zhen. Who needs to reread who's post? Infact, Perhaps you should reread your own, rather than mine.

Unfortunately, what I'm about to say was already said following your post. But I'll restate it if only to make sure it's in your mind by the time you're done reading all the text that has built-up in your wake.
Rikh+1 wrote: Somebody said this, but I can't seem to find it again: Basically "Sakura does not admit she wants Shirou because she just wants him to be happy. And she doesn't think that'll be with her. Only when Shirou states that he wants her does she admit she want him also."
Rikh: "The fact that she even tried to kill her self a large amount of times prior to events was in will to protect the lives of others (although the shadow prevented it) "
Manipulative? Who the HELL does Sakura Manipulate!? She's probably the most Name-Accurate character in the entire game. She's like the petal of a Cherry Blossom just falling down in a spiral to the ground. She has no control no matter how much she, as a mere petal, may try to fly. She will Fall, but she spins to slow it. What the HELL does a petal control? A petal can't even fully control it's OWN fate, let alone others'.
Sakura is Manipulated, not manipulative. Get It Right.

Only has her own interest at heart? I wanna post Nobaka's avatar right now.
She practically forsakes herself through half the route for Shirou's sake. And when she realizes that He wants Her, THEN she tries to keep him.
Only her own interest at Heart?
No, more to the point. What the hell is with you saying that about Sakura? Saber and Rin are FAR MORESO in that aspect.
I'd double my post length just repeating everything said already about Saber and Rin's "Our Goals>Yours" attitude. Hell even Shirou fits that before Sakura does.
EX: Not killing her even though she wants to die.
Sakura gives up everything just to have Shirou.


And Also(Because repeating "Lastly" twice seems ironic. Hint Hint. :3):
In regard to me not getting over you using kimochi instead of "Feelings": Get Over It.
Most people here would understand if I wrote my entire post in Japanese without the characters(IOW: "Kimochi" instead of "感じ").
If you want to write in a language other than english, that's fine. But I swear to ORT, I'll do bad things if you weeaboo it up.
You can even do what Sirys did. Half English, Half another. Every third word he stated(Vowel or otherwise) would be written in
Japanese. And every third sentence would be written in Japanese structure format rather than english.
That's fine. That's creative. But this "1つの無作為のワーム" crap needs to just diezorz.
Like I said, it does not fool anyone. We all know you don't know the language, and all it does is irritate people such as I.

And when people like I get mad, we pray. And we don't pray to god. No. We pray to Neko-Arc.
And Neko-Arc hears our prayers,nyan. And Neko-Arc delivers divine punishment,nya!



Kikuchi:

1. Hmm...I don't recall the scene changing at all as if you had the Good or Regular ending...Especially since It gave me the option to skip it as I had already seen it.
I'll look into it later.

2. It is EXPLICITLY stated in the game that Sakura's magic is Stronger than Rin's. Rin will win if they fight, but Sakura has the stronger magic.
It's like Saber VS Berserker. Berserker is stronger, but saber can match him due to her skill with Mana Burst and such. plus I think I may recall something
of how rin's Jewels are not specifically Her magic but her Amplified Magic. The Jewel stores and amplifies her spell.
Sakura's main magic however, is already strong. Not as strong as a jewel at all though. So in terms of their spells, Sakura is stronger. But because of other factors,
Rin would win(Amplification, Timing, targeting, etc, etc).
Mind you, Sakura's main spell is basically SUPER DUPER Gandr. It's life Drain. So if you hit Sakura, and then she hits you, you both take damage but Sakura heals some.
Against Rin, the spell wouldn't hit too often. Rin would win, but Sakura is stronger.

3. Altima is correct. I'm not trying to say Sakura is unselfish. I do not believe any such thing could exist. But rather, Sakura is far less selfish than either of the other two main heroines.

4. I had forgotten about El-Merroi(Until mm proves my translation wrong, or until F/HA gets a voice patch, I'm sticking with this translation as it seems more accurate to me). But generally, alot of the characters and their abilities/knowledge/etc match up more with F/HA results than other characters.
But mind you, F/HA doesn't TECHNIQUALLY matter which route happened. Since it's all a Dreamstate(generally).
As for your Shinji point, He also dies in the Fate Route. And Rider is generally intimidating, it's not just mitsuzuri. Shirou himself says that a few times. Especially considering her height and eyes(even without knowing their ability, white with square cornea?).

5. I'm saying I don't like to read about a character who can't even match...ANY semi-important character but IS a man. Even at the cost of his life.
If it was Proto-shirou, it MIGHT be understandable. But it's Shirou, manly Proto-Garcher, Shirou.
Fate only has two scenes where shirou is not so fail I want to invent a *Faceheel*: VS Zerk and VS Kirit. Even VS Kirit he's pretty fail and it's not that impressive.

UBW wasn't NEARLY as bad. Shirou really got to buff up, show off, and become useful. But he's emo. He cuts himself, fights himself, and finally stabs himself. :P

But HF shows a truely Gar shirou. He does the insanely dangerous, disregards his life, and takes down the Dark forms of the strongest two servants. Exceeds the SOUND Barrier(At the same time almost exceeding the Gar barrier), WANTS sex for once, and has a MANLY MANLY MANLY Fight to save the world VS someone who is his mirror opposite.

*And for those confused about HF Normal ending: Yes, Kotomine IS there. Shirou just doesn't have the consciousness left to notice him. In truth, kotomine is probably chatting while shirou is walking, then pummels the hell out of shirou while he is casting UBW. UBW Casts, Kotomine is killed with the grail.
Illya can't save this shirou because he's a vegetable basically. If she still does or not, I cannot say.*



By the way Rikh: I dunno how I feel about "Desu".
It's certainly not a term. And often it's use is utterly wrong normally.
On the other hand, it strangely doesn't make me angry. Perhaps because it's recognition of the great Anime.
*Shrug*
Mah signature starts here.
Behold! Twist Ties and Eroges as far as the eye can see!
Fate/Twisted Night:
viewtopic.php?t=2838

allanh
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Unread post by allanh » February 3rd, 2009, 6:20 am

Heartcard:

All I have to say is calm down.
In reponse to the whore bit, low sense of moral does not equate to whore. In fact, I was referring to herself keeping herself alive when she knows she is killing half the town. She is self-conscious of her own actions, yet her cowardice kept her alive. If it were Saber or Rin, I am sure they would have chosen the path of ending their own lives before committing any more sin. By staying alive, she also created more misery for Shirou. She took away his servant (Saber), and watched him suffer. I don't see how that's someone who has Shirou's best interest at heart would act.

As for who is stronger or weaker between Rin and Sakura, I am not going to comment since it's not the point of this thread.

Sakura also is a possessive / jealous type of person. If you played the game, you would see that she is even jealous of Rider whom Shirou showed slighest affection towards. Sakura hates Rin because Shirou treated Rin well.

Sigh, how does a Saber-appreciation thread turn into Sakura-thread? TBH, I can care less about Sakura. She only pissed me off when Type Moon forced us in the Heavens Feel route to side with her all the time as Shirou.

Lastly, in regard to how I post a message or the language is used, I really don't give a toss what you think. I am not telling you how to type things, so don't tell me what words I can or can not use.


p.s Just a correction on why Illya did not save Shirou in the Normal Ending of HF. It is mentioned in the story that if you do not gain enough "affection point" from Illya, you would not get the True Ending. I assume that it means Illya just wouldn't like Shirou enough to go and save him. This information is from Tiger dojo.
Last edited by allanh on February 3rd, 2009, 6:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

Kikuchi
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Unread post by Kikuchi » February 3rd, 2009, 6:27 am

HeartCard:

2. You are talking about DARK Sakura. Not normal Sakura. Normal Sakura will not have such magic as "deterioration touch" or something. AFAIK, she didn't have that kind of magic anymore in F/ha final fight.
► Show Spoiler
3. Still, she is selfish in her own terms. You still wanna go on about this? Cause anything you said will not change that fact. :P

4. What are you trying to prove anyway? I only said HF is not the sole possibility of being a F/ha prequel. Most abilities match with HF only because in HF the true abilities of a character is shown to the fullest (with addition to the other two routes), since F/sn is played in a Fate-UBW-HF order.

5. Is a rant. I'm not even bothering to respond. :P

Oh, and before you consider being a dick again next time :
forum rules wrote: 1. You must be over the age of 18. Do not behave in a manner that may be considered "immature." This includes not reading threads before posting, or acting in any way under the age of 18!
When will I get my 1337th post?

allanh
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Unread post by allanh » February 3rd, 2009, 6:39 am

HeartCard wrote: Like I said, it does not fool anyone. We all know you don't know the language, and all it does is irritate people such as I.
who is "we" here? The only person complaining about my usage of kimochi here is you.

Inverted
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Unread post by Inverted » February 3rd, 2009, 7:43 am

I'm saying I don't like to read about a character who can't even match...ANY semi-important character but IS a man. Even at the cost of his life.
If it was Proto-shirou, it MIGHT be understandable. But it's Shirou, manly Proto-Garcher, Shirou.
Fate only has two scenes where shirou is not so fail I want to invent a *Faceheel*: VS Zerk and VS Kirit. Even VS Kirit he's pretty fail and it's not that impressive.

UBW wasn't NEARLY as bad. Shirou really got to buff up, show off, and become useful. But he's emo. He cuts himself, fights himself, and finally stabs himself.

But HF shows a truely Gar shirou. He does the insanely dangerous, disregards his life, and takes down the Dark forms of the strongest two servants. Exceeds the SOUND Barrier(At the same time almost exceeding the Gar barrier), WANTS sex for once, and has a MANLY MANLY MANLY Fight to save the world VS someone who is his mirror opposite.
Plant the Archer arm on fate Shirou the result would just be the same. BTW its agianst Kotomine not Kiritsugu.

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Unread post by HeartCard » February 3rd, 2009, 9:32 am

I forgot how much I love writing lengthy posts. :3

Inverted: For some reason, I get Kirit and Kirei mixed in my head alot. That's my bad. >_>

Kikuchi:

3. How many times do I have to say this? I'm not calling her unselfish. I infact stated there can be no such thing.
I'm merely stating she is perhaps the least selfish of the three Main Heroines.

4. I forgot what I was trying to prove. Shows how important that was. lol

5. Was pointless to begin with. This one actually came out of a single line that "HF is the only route that does not produce a Fail or Emo shirou. :P". A single unserious line.


As for my "Dick"ness:
I don't consider being a "Dick" or a "Bitch". In truth, I have no such feelings when I type normally. However, I type in an aggressive tone. I suppose this may sometimes come accross incorrectly. Like getting a warning for the "ANY QUESTIONS BITCHS!?" statement. Well, how you take my statements is up to you.
If you read me while thinking I'm furious, you're bound to see most of my statements as "Dick"like. If you read me as being unserious and relaxed, you're bound to laugh a few times.
More promptly, I think someone needs to define "Maturity".
If you have no guidelines for what is something, anyone can come and say it is something else. For example, someone might say a "Noble Phantasm" is "A technique or special power a Servant uses or has possession of." and thus because of the vague definition, someone else could come up and calls Saber's Mana Burst a Noble Phantasm.

So until the moderation staff comes out and would be kind enough to distinctly state what is and is not "Mature", I won't change because there's nothing to change into. If a math problem is "4+X=Y What is Y?" you cannot figure out what Y is because you do not know what X is. Y could be any number higher, lower, or equal to 4.
If there was some topic about what "Maturity" is defined as in this forum, and I missed it, I would appreciate someone linking me to it.
I don't care if you ban me right after letting me read that topic or list of what is/isn't "Maturity", but I would Love for anyone to provide such a list.

Let's clarify, I am not a serious person, nor is anything I say accompanied by a fair amount of serious-ness. But neither do I intend to insult people seriously. Unless it's a very large group including myself. Such as statements "Ha! You fail at failing life!" or "Everyone fails in one way or another..."
Protip: "Any mod that bans me fails at not knowing how to ban." D:
However, when I have a point to make, I make it using whatever means are needed. If there are multiple means, I will choose the means I find most enjoyable.



Allanh:

I'm not trying to offend you, but saying "Calm Down" to someone most be the most concrete examples of and Irony.
People rarely know about the irony of such. The truthful reprocautions of their actions. It's Ironic because...Telling someone to "Calm Down" will almost Always infuriate them moreso.
You tell someone happy as can be to "Calm Down" and their happy mood will often drop even slightly. Tell a neutral person to "Calm Down" and they will often be angered. Tell an actually infuriated person to "Calm Down" and they will splodes.

Generally though, I am rather Calm. If the countless puns, jokes(some decrete), and references were not a hint enough, then I will say it bluntly:
*Fixes glasses* I am seriously unserious.

My points and statements may have serious value and truth to them, but they are stated unseriously.
So while I will, perhaps one might say, "Overact" to that single line of yours, I will do so happily because I'm informing you of something.

However, a phrase I've found that gets the INTENDED reaction that "Calm Down" seeks is "Consider This..."
Could be something about the pronounciation of "Consider This", how rarely the phrase is said, who knows.
But it noticeabley will actually calm people, even if only very minorly.


About Sakura's Morality: I offered an option besides one that resulted in your opinoin stated her a whore. Still, I'm glad all three of my guesses were wrong. I truely would have thought bad of you twere my guess correct.
But as for what you were actually refering to as her 'Morality':
Is it not stated that she DID try to commit suicide several times in her past, only for "The Shadow" to stop her?
Infact, I think it was even already stated in this topic.
Perhaps the option of killing herself is not an option.
Is this not shown when Shirou does consider killing her? How she pleads as to why he wouldn't go through with it?
In the case she does not have the option of killing herself, what then? How do you define her Morality then?
Is she forsaken from having any bit of morality?
Or is she granted as having Morality for merely wanted to stop the suffering of those around her by dieing in any manner?

Plus, may I point out the scene with Gilgamesh? He practically DID kill her, atleast moreso than any suicide method she could have attempted.
And what happened? Ah yes, she lived.

Plus, I think she does not have conscience control of "The Shadow" until after her Gilgamesh meeting. I could be wrong on this.
So one could easily say that Saber was not her conscious fault. Indirectly her fault, even.

She's possessive. And? So is Rin. She's jealous? So is EVERYBODY if such cases happen. In sakura's case, her jealousy was the only feeling left
between becoming the heir of the matous and meeting shirou. Jealousy of Rin. It's not because of Shirou she was jealous of Rin. She was jealous from the start.
The Natural Genius child, everything came naturally to her. Practically the Idol of her school. Was the sister the Tohsaka family kept
while discarding Sakura(from her perspective probably). I'm sure there's more reasons too.
The way I see it, Sakura is the only character who really had a chance to express her jealousy.
Saber didn't have anything to be jealous of, and by the time she wanted shirou, he was so into her there was no chance for losing him.
Rin is much the same for the most part.
Sakura is the only character who truely had anything to be Jealous of, and much of it.
If Sakura is a Jealous type character, I find no reason to blame her for it. She's practically maintained herself with it for most her life.

Saying there's something wrong with Jealous is like saying there's something wrong with Hunger.

allanh wrote:Sigh, how does a Saber-appreciation thread turn into Sakura-thread?
By not naming it correctly. The topic is not "My thoughts on Saber/Game Endings" it's about "Heroines". Multiples. :P
So when you said ANYTHING bad about ANY Heroine, that heroine's fanboys would have rose up with caffine-inflicted RAGE.
Plus, there was an issue of bad timing on your part.
We went through the "I hate rin" topic, and recently the "Saber: What's the Appeal?" topic, which meant we were due for a "dood sakura is fail" topic.
You could say your topic was a casuality of the incomplete pyramid.
allanh wrote:She only pissed me off when Type Moon forced us in the Heavens Feel route to side with her all the time as Shirou.
How did that piss you off exactly? It's the same as when Type-Moon forced Saber on us in the Fate Route, or when they forced Rin on us in the Unlimited Blade Works route, or best of all: When they forced shirou on us for ANY of the routes.

Forcing a heroine on you when it's Her route is natural for ANY Visual Novel generally...

I dislike rin. But I had no problem with her in the UBW route. Because it's her route. It's for her. It certainly was more forced on you than Heaven's Feel. Considering you practically MUST go through Rin's route to get to Sakura's. Sakura's route is not forced on you at all unless you want to 100% the game.

Honestly, if there was something I disliked about the series, it was the favouritism that Shirou showed Saber. That annoys me.
I have no problem with Saber's character, it's a beautiful character. And Rin's character may be annoying to be, but she's a beautiful character too.
But there was another heroine. That annoys me. It's like Arcruied Favouritism in Tsukihime.

The way I see it, the main character should prefer each character equally before you make your choices.
Read through UBW or HF and you'll notice Shirou still holds a heavy biased view on Saber. Same with Rin in Fate and HF. But sakura is discluded from that.
In Fate and ubw, Sakura is just THERE. As a neighbor. "Oh look, proof of the city I must protect!"

To be completely honest, I might just prefer Saber over Sakura as far as Characters go. But how you speak of Sakura is akin to how I previously spoke of Rin. In my mind it's not something I can stand by and let happen so easily. Because it reeks of the same ignorant hatred I had when I made the "I hate Rin" topic.
Maybe I'm harsh at times with my words on accident. But my words do catch your attention, right? You said yourself you already have a slightly improved view of Sakura.
Perhaps you could say it is that I feel I can relate to your situation that makes me perhaps somewhat harsher on you than normal.
I hated Rin in the same ignorant and unjustified way you hated Sakura at the start of this topic.
By the end of my topic, I finally came out as "Neutral" on Rin. I find her personality annoying at some times, but I certainly have no real problem with her anymore.
I would hope that you should find a similiar end to this topic. An end that changes your view on her for the better.


About the use of "We":
I use "We" often as a replacement for "I". I make a conscious decision to avoid doing that too much in forums, but it is something I enjoy doing in any other media.
So every so often I slip up and use "We". I don't care to think of the reason, it's just how things are.
You could say it's something akin to a Royal person uses "We" instead of "I". Or "Us" instead of "Me".
Infact, you could say that is exactly how it is.

About Wapanese use:
It annoys me that you speak like that. But I have no control over you to stop. So why comment on such? If you truely don't care, then ignore the pity comment.

About HF Ending: Meh. Like I said, I could not say. The ending is as ambiguous as if Black Sakura wins. I wanna know what happens and how she tortures all mankind!



Possible Last Post:
I may or not be banned for this post. So I gotta say this now while I can. I've said what I wanted to say. As I always do and will always do.
If you're insulted by what I said, there's a good chance that's your fault for taking it in that manner.
So I guess here goes:

O mirrormoon :
8 wiLLoLwoou :

It's been fun. Your translations are pretty well done. And I suppose I owe gratification for bringing people to the Fate community.
Your forums are organized, and there's a impressive number of level-headed or intellectual people here.
The rules are fair, as is the staff.
You've helped me with laughs a few times, and you've given me arguements I could actually enjoy instead of making everyone give up.
If I'm banned, then I'm banned. It's as simple as that.
But I am most sure I am not the only person you'll misunderstand as flaming or trolling people, no matter the reason.
So I would still appreciate if you could come up with a guideline on "Maturity", maybe sticky it?

I'd also appreciate if you just Locked my account rather than blocking my ip or any such method.
It's not like I'm going to be able to secretly sign up and keep posting.
Come on, who else types THIS MUCH?

You've got my email if you want to talk to me after my ban.
So just incase I'm banned: See ya wiLLoLwoou.


Extra Note: Let's reframe from anyone daring to say I have a "I don't care attitude", shall we?
I do care. I care about this conversation and everything that takes place in it. It is a beautiful work of art.
The passion and ideals and thoughts of one colliding and crashing against another.
To me, this is a form of entertainment akin to people who watch the "Superbowl" but NOT for the commericals(Coke won btw).

Nerroth
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Unread post by Nerroth » February 3rd, 2009, 5:57 pm

I guess I'll wait until next conversation, then.

Altima of the Gates
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Unread post by Altima of the Gates » February 3rd, 2009, 6:00 pm

Kikuchi wrote:HeartCard:

2. You are talking about DARK Sakura. Not normal Sakura. Normal Sakura will not have such magic as "deterioration touch" or something. AFAIK, she didn't have that kind of magic anymore in F/ha final fight.
► Show Spoiler
3. Still, she is selfish in her own terms. You still wanna go on about this? Cause anything you said will not change that fact. :P

4. What are you trying to prove anyway? I only said HF is not the sole possibility of being a F/ha prequel. Most abilities match with HF only because in HF the true abilities of a character is shown to the fullest (with addition to the other two routes), since F/sn is played in a Fate-UBW-HF order.

5. Is a rant. I'm not even bothering to respond. :P

Oh, and before you consider being a dick again next time :
forum rules wrote: 1. You must be over the age of 18. Do not behave in a manner that may be considered "immature." This includes not reading threads before posting, or acting in any way under the age of 18!
Sigh....

2.) Most of those abilities she had before were unusable unless she gave herself back to the darkness, which was why she was so weakened during the Broad Bridge fight, not because she was weak, but because she didn't want to pull out all the stops and not be able to revert back to normal afterwards.

Mind you, this wasn't about making this a powerlevel discussion. I was just pointing out some FACTS. I really could care less if you see her as weaker or stronger than Rin, actually. The connection she has with the other side ISN'T natural, but what does that have to do with it? This wasn't a natural setting to begin with. So please, don't disregard my facts and call it "lol powerlevels" just because you don't want to accept them.

As to the inability for Zouken to possess Sakura, what the heck are you talking about? He was crushed by Sakura on the last day and the mother worm was removed on the last day. What you were talking about was that Shirou and Co. should have killed her back when people in town were dissapearing, but that wouldn't have born any fruit beyond just killing Sakura. Hell, Zouken was taunting Shirou to do it. I was merely pointing out the very bad repercussions of this. Its not a what if, but drawing a line based on FACTS in the storyline, so please, don't be so narrow-minded.

@allanh: Since the mother worm is his real body, why would he not know if she was nearing death? So it should be obvious to see him taking it over once her consciousness disappears.

Kid-Wolf
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Unread post by Kid-Wolf » February 3rd, 2009, 6:39 pm

Oh yeah to sort this out Rin and Sakrua have the same mana level discharge at around a 1000 since it was described in thier fight scene in HF.
► Show Spoiler
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.

Inverted
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Unread post by Inverted » February 3rd, 2009, 8:40 pm

O.o What a train wreck of a thread.
To be completely honest,
I might just prefer Saber over Sakura as far as Characters go.
Throwing a bone to the other side eh? hahahahaahahaha

allanh
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Unread post by allanh » February 3rd, 2009, 9:45 pm

Just to remind everyone, when I said that I felt Sakura is a weak person, I did not mean power-wise. I meant character-wise. Yes, I have heard of arguments of her having to go through suffering (hence she is strong), however, she was passively accepting what was happening to her. Had it been Rin or Saber, I believe they would actively search for a solution to end Zouken's control.

Anyway, thank to the tangent to Sakura in this conversation, I felt that I am slightly distracted from my obsession and love to Saber. I am not as sad as before after watching Fate/Stay Night fate route :)

TBH, I do feel that I do need to get on with life rather than thinking about her all the time, this is so unhealthy.
http://Miyazaki.com - my Hayao Miyazaki fan site
http://CityHunter.com- my City Hunter fan site
Saber-chan, come back to me~~~~~

Rikh
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Unread post by Rikh » February 3rd, 2009, 10:22 pm

Inverted wrote:
I'm saying I don't like to read about a character who can't even match...ANY semi-important character but IS a man. Even at the cost of his life.
If it was Proto-shirou, it MIGHT be understandable. But it's Shirou, manly Proto-Garcher, Shirou.
Fate only has two scenes where shirou is not so fail I want to invent a *Faceheel*: VS Zerk and VS Kirit. Even VS Kirit he's pretty fail and it's not that impressive.

UBW wasn't NEARLY as bad. Shirou really got to buff up, show off, and become useful. But he's emo. He cuts himself, fights himself, and finally stabs himself.

But HF shows a truely Gar shirou. He does the insanely dangerous, disregards his life, and takes down the Dark forms of the strongest two servants. Exceeds the SOUND Barrier(At the same time almost exceeding the Gar barrier), WANTS sex for once, and has a MANLY MANLY MANLY Fight to save the world VS someone who is his mirror opposite.
Plant the Archer arm on fate Shirou the result would just be the same. BTW its agianst Kotomine not Kiritsugu.
umm i doubt the Arms effects would be near as severe as they were in HF then... If its Fate Shiro, the arm will most likely have little to no effect on him, since its follows a very similar ideal to Archer. HF caused the arm to reject him and forbid him from accessing UBW and etc...

I think if the GARm was placed on shiro during fate, it would just be a 10x more powerful H4xalon attack or haxiburn tracing against berserker
allanh wrote:Just to remind everyone, when I said that I felt Sakura is a weak person, I did not mean power-wise. I meant character-wise. Yes, I have heard of arguments of her having to go through suffering (hence she is strong), however, she was passively accepting what was happening to her. Had it been Rin or Saber, I believe they would actively search for a solution to end Zouken's control.

Anyway, thank to the tangent to Sakura in this conversation, I felt that I am slightly distracted from my obsession and love to Saber. I am not as sad as before after watching Fate/Stay Night fate route :)

TBH, I do feel that I do need to get on with life rather than thinking about her all the time, this is so unhealthy.
also just to point this out... During a bad end in HF... Rin is beaten by the darkness instantly when its only a fraction infecting Sakura. Rin with her weak nature at heart would crumble away almost instantly against the worms. Rin was always the type of person that was exceptional until she really needed to do something (which makes her cute imho...MOEsickle!) Plus she breaks down during UBW a few times due to minor-ish stress compared to Sakura's situation...

Saber on the other hand would probably fight the worms until the end. Had she not been a servant, she might have turned out somewhat safer than Sakura, who knows

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Unread post by Kikuchi » February 3rd, 2009, 11:25 pm

Altima of the Gates wrote:2.) Most of those abilities she had before were unusable unless she gave herself back to the darkness, which was why she was so weakened during the Broad Bridge fight, not because she was weak, but because she didn't want to pull out all the stops and not be able to revert back to normal afterwards.
Which is why I told you to differ normal Sakura from Dark Sakura. Normal Sakura couldn't (wouldn't) use those kinds of abilities, no more.
Mind you, this wasn't about making this a powerlevel discussion. I was just pointing out some FACTS. I really could care less if you see her as weaker or stronger than Rin, actually. The connection she has with the other side ISN'T natural, but what does that have to do with it? This wasn't a natural setting to begin with. So please, don't disregard my facts and call it "lol powerlevels" just because you don't want to accept them.
Oh?
2.) You also have to remember that they both had quite a different training regimen. Although I don't think what Sakura went through you could count as training, but only experimentation. Give her enough training, and have her use her extra maryoku from the other side effectively, and you got a great magus. She also has limited functions as the grail, so there's that too.
I'm quoting yourself. Almost all from the lines above were "what ifs"; trigger to powerlevel discussions. What was my point before that response of yours? Oh yeah, Rin is stronger than Sakura as a Magus. If you don't care who is stronger, then why even bother to respond? Which is why I'm stopping it before it actually happens.
Its not a what if, but drawing a line based on FACTS in the storyline, so please, don't be so narrow-minded.
And the fact in the storyline also showed that Shirou's inability to stop Sakura wreaked havoc to the whole city.
@allanh: Since the mother worm is his real body, why would he not know if she was nearing death? So it should be obvious to see him taking it over once her consciousness disappears.
Not quite, if Shirou managed to eliminate Sakura along with her body, what will be there to take over?
When will I get my 1337th post?

Kid-Wolf
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Unread post by Kid-Wolf » February 4th, 2009, 1:00 am

Kikuchi wrote:
@allanh: Since the mother worm is his real body, why would he not know if she was nearing death? So it should be obvious to see him taking it over once her consciousness disappears.
Not quite, if Shirou managed to eliminate Sakura along with her body, what will be there to take over?
► Show Spoiler
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.

nobaka
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Unread post by nobaka » February 4th, 2009, 3:09 am

In before shitstor- ... oh.

Atriel
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Unread post by Atriel » February 4th, 2009, 3:19 am

Hay guys! Why so srious?
If you disagree, you are wrong.

Kid-Wolf
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Unread post by Kid-Wolf » February 4th, 2009, 5:12 am

And so I think this thread as been derailed for a bit too long here by going itno a rant about Sakura and Rin it seems. Although salvaging this thread might be possible, but chances now seem rather low due to the random postings I take it.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.

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