Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

It's alright, we feel your pain. Noone wants to admit being gar for Berserker.

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Unread post by Raven » February 11th, 2009, 8:30 pm

Kansho wrote:@Raven:
But Nasu thinks that even if they sacrificed things, they got plenty of happiness as a reward.
And how much more explaination do you need for me to get the "it's not neccessary for me to agree" message across?
And with Saber, I only used the same argument as you with Ilya in UBW. She wasn't important here.
No, it's not the same. Shirou barely talked to Ilya in UBW except for the time she wants to kill him, there is no emotional attachment on a family level. He only went to her due to proffessional reason (need an ally) and even that didn't go too far. In both Fate and HF, she has become part of the Emiya family and Shirou pretty much regard her as such. His attachement to Ilya can be considered the strongest of the three paths even, hell Shirou risks his life several times in HF to save Ilya and he had explicitly expressed his desire to live with Ilya as a family. Yes, the fact that it's not possible, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a sad fact. Same with Saber, she made a contract, fight with him, protect him and died for him (before she's betrayed), she had intergrated herself as part of the Emiya family (even just for a bit), and he killed her - even if he has no choice, even if she's an enemy, even if she betrayed him, those things doesn't change the fact that she is Saber. And my last sentence is just a recital of what the game state at that point. If she's someone dismissable like you put it, then Shirou should not have that strong flashback upon her death.


Sorry, I consider much more thing that just the story core itself, a story is nothing without a characters, and there are more to a (good) character then just being a plot device. Frankly, to compare the Ilya in UBW with the Ilya in HF or Saber is just being dismissive for the convience of "your" argument. Between the context of a stranger with a context of sister/combrade, what exactly is the same? :roll:
And I really want to stop this, so please, stop.
And why should I? I already told you if you want to drop, then drop it yourself, no one force you to follow the discussion anyway. At this point it's already clear my opinion is not just me alone, there are others for people who share what I think, I can still talk to them if we want since there is nothing wrong with it ... maybe except the fact that you don't approve it ... but who are you really? First you accused me a fanboy despite the fact I backed up my points, You dismiss most of what I said without any attemp for a real counter-argument, you declare the discussion is stupid, and now you want us to drop it because you don't like it? Do you ever stop and think you're acting a bit too arrogant here? :?


I'll make one last attemp out of good will and give you the benefit of the doubt that this is all a misunderstanding.

- I never dispute what the game, or Nasu said. I'm start to getting a faint impression that you are thinking I mean "this doesn't happen in the game". I acknowledge what happens in the game, the point is I do not agree/like it. Common why is this so hard to accept, how many times you read a book or watch the anime that have an ending you don't agree with? Many time I bet. Does that mean you deny the fact the ending happened that way? No. Does that mean you have to like it? No.

- As someone already said, my line of thought is not really that rare among the F/SN fans that the happy ending of HF does not "click" with the "flow" of the story. In my respective, if HF needs a happy ending, it "should" be something like Saikano ending. Yes, I see Sakura last smile in HF, I know its exist, I know Nasu wrote that the smile is full and full-fillment. Point being, I just can not believe that smile, that's all there is to it.


- And again, the way you direct all the argument against you with the "Nasu said so" attitude is really out of place here, and I see you use it not just against me but against others as well. This line of argument is not about "What actually happened, what is the true path, what is the canon ending" discussion, if it is then you take the cake. However we're talking about "different ending, characters" on our preference here, and to put it short, Nasu's opinion on that matter is as good as anyone here as long as we can form our basic reasoning.


That is as far as I will go in trying to form an understanding between us, like I said if you want to drop, drop it yourself. If you still find yourself unable to adjust your attitude and form a mutal respect for my opinion, I will not drop the discussion but I will stop direct my point at you. :wink:

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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by RinTohsaka » July 3rd, 2009, 4:49 pm

Okay !...it's pretty late...but perhaps I'm just tired after reading all of these posts...but...how about a Fuji-nee ending? lol.

Or perhaps even a mitsuzuri one?

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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by DarkEyes » July 4th, 2009, 7:49 am

I rly liked all fsn routes =p but if i gotta put em in order than i guess itd be fate<ubw<hf =]

Reasons why i liked fate:
Honestly i liked shirou tryin to save any1 he can, yeah its a stupid ideal, but hell it IS a beautiful 1 =]
Loved garcher goin for berserker scene
Loved shirou refusing the grail scene and pretty much everything that followed, even the ending was well placed.. Its a fitting end in my opinion. Sides realta nua has like a continuation of that ending =p
Hell i even loved saber killing shirou xD

Reasons why i liked ubw:
Garcher is 1 of mah fav chars
Lancer rocked this route. GAR-bolg'ing kotomine was awesome ^_^
Loved saber-berserker fight
Loved archer-caster fight
Loved lancer-archer fight
Loved archer-shirou fight
Loved gil-shirou fight

Reasons for HF:
Can u say ,,shirou is GAR"? I mean, rain hug scene? Saving rin? Nine lives blade works? Fun with rider? (xD) Beating dark saber 1v1? Body made of swords? Vs kotomine? Man, shirou was just awesome this route ^_^
Shinjis head was sakurad. Any questions? xD
Garm is awesome.
In my opinion Sakura is the most realistic character in the vn.
The sex scenes were good xD srsly fate and ubw sex scenes = fail


Also
allanh wrote: In regard to your comments re: Realta Nua, yeah, I would have much preferred it to be shown as the ending for Fate route. Unfortunately, it is not available on the PC version.
*cough* it is *cough cough*

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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by nanaya_shinya » July 4th, 2009, 8:41 am

DarkEyes wrote: *cough* it is *cough cough*
no way... you're not talking about
► Show Spoiler
are you?!

:lol:
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by SolarAdept » July 4th, 2009, 12:02 pm

Yeah, I think he meant THAT-WHICH-MUST-NOT-BE-NAMED.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by Oolinthu » July 8th, 2009, 9:52 pm

So am I the only one who wanted a Berserker ending?

I mean seriously. Fuck Saber, fuck Rin, fuck Sakura, fuck Ilya. Let me snuggle up next to those chiseled-from-granite abs and tousle that lion's mane. You know, get to know the real Herakles. "God Hand" indeed.

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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by SolarAdept » July 9th, 2009, 12:16 am

Shit. That post is nightmare fuel.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by DarkEyes » July 9th, 2009, 7:23 pm

....cannot unread......

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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by Kid-Wolf » July 10th, 2009, 12:21 am

Oolinthu wrote: I mean seriously. I'd fuck Saber, fuck Rin, fuck Sakura, and fuck Ilya.
there fix'ed

Presonally that's how I would like it if they were known to have harem routes though. lol
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.

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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by abscess » July 10th, 2009, 2:14 am

Oolinthu wrote: I mean seriously. I'd fuck Saber, fuck Rin, fuck Sakura, and eat boiled Ilya..... Hmmm~!
My interpretation :)
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.

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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by Oolinthu » July 10th, 2009, 10:47 am

Don't try to censor our love!
Mirror Moon Forums wrote:It's alright, we feel your pain. Noone wants to admit being gar for Berserker.
So very true. So very true. But I shall be the first! I am not afraid!

Besides, think about it. Hercules had many lovers, male and female. Becoming intimate with Hercules actually makes more sense than doing it with King Arthur.

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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by Kid-Wolf » July 10th, 2009, 2:27 pm

I'm sorry give me a female version of Arthur over that tank any day. Besides Arthur could of been a trap or reverse trap from the very get go. lol
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.

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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by nanaya_shinya » July 10th, 2009, 2:40 pm

Kid-Wolf wrote:Besides Arthur could of been a trap or reverse trap from the very get go. lol
That, my friend, will anger the hardcore "King Arthur is a guy" Brits.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by Kid-Wolf » July 10th, 2009, 3:12 pm

But we honestly don't know since they say he looks like a femboy, so there is that very possiblity. Besides it's just a wild speculation on my part.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.

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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by abscess » July 10th, 2009, 7:42 pm

Kid-Wolf wrote:But we honestly don't know since they say he looks like a femboy, so there is that very possiblity. Besides it's just a wild speculation on my part.
?
Where does it say that Arthur looked effeminate? I walys thought that Nasu just said "Fuck it! I want King Arhur to lose his balls!", thus Arthuria was created.
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.

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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by Catastrophe » July 11th, 2009, 1:43 am

abscess wrote:
Kid-Wolf wrote:But we honestly don't know since they say he looks like a femboy, so there is that very possiblity. Besides it's just a wild speculation on my part.
?
Where does it say that Arthur looked effeminate? I walys thought that Nasu just said "Fuck it! I want King Arhur to lose his balls!", thus Arthuria was created.
wasn't it Takeuchi saying "Fuck it! I want to draw a female knight" side of things?

either way the results are what matter, and in this case... it was superiorly awesome.... am i wrong?
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by abscess » July 11th, 2009, 4:39 am

Catastrophe wrote:
abscess wrote:
Kid-Wolf wrote:But we honestly don't know since they say he looks like a femboy, so there is that very possiblity. Besides it's just a wild speculation on my part.
?
Where does it say that Arthur looked effeminate? I walys thought that Nasu just said "Fuck it! I want King Arhur to lose his balls!", thus Arthuria was created.
wasn't it Takeuchi saying "Fuck it! I want to draw a female knight" side of things?

either way the results are what matter, and in this case... it was superiorly awesome.... am i wrong?
Well, I could be wrong. I have no basis on my speculation. But yeah, a knight that looks girly is weird at first, but turns awesome when you get used to it.
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.

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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by Oolinthu » July 13th, 2009, 5:11 pm

abscess wrote:
Catastrophe wrote:
abscess wrote: ?
Where does it say that Arthur looked effeminate? I walys thought that Nasu just said "Fuck it! I want King Arhur to lose his balls!", thus Arthuria was created.
wasn't it Takeuchi saying "Fuck it! I want to draw a female knight" side of things?

either way the results are what matter, and in this case... it was superiorly awesome.... am i wrong?
Well, I could be wrong. I have no basis on my speculation. But yeah, a knight that looks girly is weird at first, but turns awesome when you get used to it.
Keep in mind, though, that the Arthurian mythos originated in a different time. You or I might think that an effeminate guy is cool or interesting, but the various writers that wrote the various works that comprise the Arthurian legend almost certainly didn't. Effeminacy in a man would have been seen as an unequivocally negative trait, not something that would have been applied to a cultural and religious paragon like King Arthur.

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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by abscess » July 13th, 2009, 8:04 pm

I think you are right. I still feel it's a little odd, since I grew up with Bronson-esque badassery where men were not necessarily smart but bulked up and somehow everything turned up okay, but I grew to like different characters. Maybe that's one of the reasons why I liked Saber. But it all goes back to my previous question: Where does it say that Arthur (in the arthurian mythos, not FSN) looked girly?
"I settled for that shriek. Those dull vacant eyes... oiled cabbage stench of her...! [...] You know what? I'm sorry if I'm not gonna do this the way you want me to or the way you might. But I will not make an angel out of someone who wasn't an angel...!" -Chief Tyrol, on his beloved wife.
Have you heard about the saying that goes something like "drunk people and kids tell no lies"? Well, that's just a fallacy.

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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread post by Minimoto » July 14th, 2009, 1:35 am

Nowhere I know.
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