Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby Rein » August 8th, 2009, 5:34 am

smartazjb0y wrote:
The fact that he gave up on his childish dream is supposedly adult-like and mature.


Not to ruin your interesting convo about video game development, but I just wanted to say something. Couldn't giving everything up for a girl be seen as immature? Parents these days are going on and on about how teens don't know what real love is and etc.

Hmm, that is also a very good point. I hadn't really thought of it that way...
I would say that yes, his decision to throw everything away for a girl he thinks he loves is very immature, but the process by which he deals with it through both his actions and thoughts are much more mature than the other routes. I mean, several times throughout HF he even says to himself how he will probably regret it later and that its probably not a good idea etc, but he felt like it was the right thing to do. Very immature, yes, but less childish than his original ideals. Whether or not thats a good thing is up to interpretation...
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby Oolinthu » August 8th, 2009, 2:31 pm

Personally, I think any arguments over who's more mature are pointless and asinine from the get-go. The concept of "Maturity" is completely subjective, and when the term is used by most people, it generally refers to whatever they agree with. The discussion goes nowhere. What matters is which Shirou is more compelling. In my opinion UBW Shirou is the most compelling. Fate Shirou is oblivious, and HF Shirou ceases to be an interesting or unique character, and becomes just another morally ambiguous anti-hero - and those are a dime a dozen.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby smartazjb0y » August 10th, 2009, 12:31 am

Yeah, I don't see the debate about maturity going anywhere really. And your opinion about the 3 Shiro's is exactly mine.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby radical_number6 » August 14th, 2009, 6:51 pm

allanh wrote:I have just completed the game, FSN including all the Tiger dojo scenes. I watched anime prior (that's how I got hooked in the first place).
I just have some random thoughts the endings of each scenario (routes) and characters of heroines.


Endings:

In Fate, I like most of the story. It seems that my personality and Shirou' are pretty similar. However, the ending did not examplify enough how much Shirou misses Saber. He seemed to be too happy after Saber disappeared. Also, he still did not fix the fixation of Arturia has on rectifying her "mistakes" in the past. Had Shirou managed to convince Arturia that it was not her fault for the death in the past, she might have placed priority of Shirou over hedr own ideals and staye.
Over all, it would have been good if "Fate" route has more endings with at least one that Saber stays.

In UBW, they concentrated a lot on fighting. Rin was good but she did not seem to show enough affection towards Shirou. They only did the "Magic Transferring" process because they had to????? Also, she was complaining after the "procedure" that Shirou was too rough?!!!
I would have hoped that as the heroine of the story, they would make Rin say something that showed her love for Shirou a bit more. Also, Illya could have appeared more in this scenario.
Besides, I do not get the "Good Ending" of this route. How did Saber survive? Didn't she use the last of the magic energy to use Excalibur to destroy the Holy Grail (as shown in the True Ending"?
But I LOVE the "Good Ending" of this route. There are only 2 sad points: 1)Saber is not Shirou's primary love interest in this route, yet I wanted her to be. Rin is good, just not as good as Saber 2)Illya died.


Heaven's Feel is my most hated route. First thing is that Sakura should never have become the primary love interest of Shirou's. Her actions are pretentious and all her "kawaiiness" seem to be acted. She became jealous, weak, low sense of morality and was selfish. While you could argue that it was from the influence of the Holy Grail content, I believe that the "content" merely magnify her original personality. To be honest, it was a pain to play through a game when you can not bring yourself to like the main heroine yet you are forced to make choices that side with Sakura to complete this route.


Overall impression
FSN is an epic visual novel, in my opinion. The characters are all developed in depth and a lot of us have grown attached to them. Sakura is the only character that failed. It's hard to see her gaining popularity / support with her personality, yet Type Moon made her an "unlikable" heroine in the Heavens Feel route. Of the 4 girls , here are my ranking:
1. Saber - for obvious reasons. Loyal, tsundere, protective, high sense of moral and a considerate person, not to mention she is super-kawaii. Ideal girl in this world. Some people say she is too dull/strict, but that fit my taste perfectly. A strict girl with a soft side who would never betray you.

2. Rin Tohsaka - strong, make some kawaii mistakes but again loyal like Saber. She is a considerate person as well, but in a different way from Saber. She wouldn't be a bad choice as a GF as you know you can trust her.

3. Illya- Illya did not do much in the first 2 routes, saving been a warui antagonist in Fate. Hence I have not much feeling towards her. However, in Heavens Feel, I could almost love her on par with Saber. Her only problem is that she is a little too small lol (although it was implied that she is actually older than Shirou).

4. Sakura- I just don't like this character. I think she fails to be likeable yet she somehow became the heroine. A possessive type of woman.

My suggestions to Type Moon on how to make FSN a even better game

1. Create alternate endings for "Fate" route. Since Saber is Shirou's main love interest, there should be a "Good Ending" where they can end up together, just for the soft-hearted players like me who can't accept separation.

2. Develop Sakura in Heavens Feel into a more likeable character in Heavens Feel so that we can actually feel sorry for her sufferings while the story progresses.

3. Add animation elements into the visual novel. While the still pictures are brilliant, creating scenes with animation would liven up the whole thing even more.

4. With today's technology and storage devices, it should be possible to create a lot more alternate routes ( not dead ends) to all 3 storylines. Perhaps make it so that it is actually possible to have any of the 3 girls (Saber, Rin, Sakura) become the love interest depending on your decisions? I wouldn't mind the game becoming 10gig in size.

5. Make it more like a game so that we can actually power up Shirou by training him. Perhaps if he becomes a better fighter, there could be different endings?

6. More dating scenarios, please Type Moon. Dating Saber only once is not enough. grrhhhh
------------------------------
Anyway, thanks for reading through my ramblings. Just a way to express my appreciation of this great Visual Novel.


its been months since my last visits. i know im late and i only read the first page. the posts itself were huge so i only read parts of each posts on the first page but the thing im about to say may had been said on latter pages but what the hell, eh?

to the TC, that resides in taiwan/aus, im guessing english is not your first language. you, my dear, is a very bad reader. about your fate impression: shirou inadvertently convinced saber that she did no wrong when she was king. i can tell you which part of the game that happen but im not gonna. so that's one that you got wrong. as for the other things you said, its all about feelings. different people might read wrongly and might placed their own perception of the characters feeling might be but my god, in a story and only the true story, the story is gonna tell you what the characters feeling, not you. although some stories have parts that are purposely open ended for discussions but this aint a book. its a visual novel and the story was a straight as an arrow. no discussions. only the truth speaks the loudest!!! moving on, now that you should know shirou 'convinced' saber, given the option, she would still go. as shirou said himself, he wouldnt allow himself to soil saber's dignity and all that, saber herself wouldnt want that. those two characters got so much morals, you didnt see. i think you're a little bit in denial coz you want saber to stay. but beside all that, the tainted grail need to be destroy, saber had to go, whether she likes it or not. saber wont use the tainted grail for a wish to stay. something bad may happen. its tainted you know. you like saber so much you willing to soil her dignity as a knight?? of her honor and pride??? i dont even know what those two words meant but i heard thats the way people say it on tv. so no grail to save her. and rin is not her master like in ubw where she can supply her with mana. saber just had to go, to continue, to return to her timeline, to die. one last thing about shirou too happy after saber left. i think shirou is just strong inside, whatever it maybe, mentally or emotionally it doesnt matter. he accepts that sabers gone and he moves on. as simple as that. he'll always that he used to love her tho,as he said. i dont quite remember, but did shirou mention that the past two weeks were like a dream??? i suppose all VN have a timespan of around 2 weeks. anyway, nvm the last part. thats it, then. i guess. also, TC, you no good at reading. read slowly.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby ragna92 » August 20th, 2011, 11:15 pm

I like Rin the best from the three. Although I like her true/good ending the best, I think the ending most suited for Fate stay night was heavens feel true ending. Saber was an ok heroine, but I actually like her better in the other routes where she wasn't the heroine.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby goforit1 » September 15th, 2011, 12:06 am

I hate Sakura so much that I still haven't even finished Heaven's Feel.... And I've had F/SN since before MM released the UBW translation.

:/

(No spoils thoese are my opinions, and you can see it starting from day 1 of Fate route.)

She's just a terrible character, and even if she changes at the end, it doesn't make up for the painful stuff that she makes me go through in Fate, UBW, and especially HF. Through all 3 arcs I've always hated her, she's worthless, spineless, and ruins Shirou's personality compared to the other 2 heroines.

She makes him into a wuss who just wants to run away and cook/live a boring life. Compare to everyone else in the entire universe who's trying to get him off his ass, it really makes me hate her so much.

I played the other 2 arcs religiously, devouring their content as fast as I could. I couldn't even bring myself to click on the "good" choices in Heaven's Feel past the first day or two. I'll probably finish it eventually, but not until the Fate/HA translation is completely done or something (since I want to complete the content before moving on to the next section). I love the heroines in the Fate and Unlimited Blade Works routes, and that drove me to every nook and cranny of those parts of the game, but Heaven's Feel just makes me want to either heave or slap the heroine.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » October 3rd, 2011, 11:11 pm

Ummm.... I'm not sure why.... wait I can guess on why you hate Sakura. Pretty much she's a girl that was pretty much broken in mind, body, and sprit until metting Shirou. Also, Skaura's route is basically what the Grail War's mechanics are all about and kind of shows that she pretty much went though hell on earth ever since the 4th Grail War begain.

Pretty much Sakura is a broken girl that felt like she was a normal girl when she was around Shirou and quite frankly she didn't want him to get hurt even if he was doing his best to try and save her. The only problem is she was too scared on what he would of thought if she mentioned that she was a Master as well. Although, wishful thinking here I'm sure Shirou would of welcomed her helping him out more than being man-handled by Rin.

Ok now to the UBW Route. Pretty much it focused on how GAR Shirou, GARcher, and Lancer were over how interesting Rin was. She pretty much took a back seat over showing off the backgound of Shirou himself here.

Now back up to Fate the only thing I can say is I have no complaints about it since it made sense on how it only had one end here.
- Finding my way through this garden is rather unbearable, but if it is to keep the one I adore company I will endure it for her sake, and her sake alone.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby LIGHTDX » January 30th, 2012, 6:10 am

allanh wrote:


In [b]UBW
, they concentrated a lot on fighting. Rin was good but she did not seem to show enough affection towards Shirou. They only did the "Magic Transferring" process because they had to????? Also, she was complaining after the "procedure" that Shirou was too rough?!!!
I would have hoped that as the heroine of the story, they would make Rin say something that showed her love for Shirou a bit more. Also, Illya could have appeared more in this scenario.
Besides, I do not get the "Good Ending" of this route. How did Saber survive? Didn't she use the last of the magic energy to use Excalibur to destroy the Holy Grail (as shown in the True Ending"?
But I LOVE the "Good Ending" of this route. There are only 2 sad points: 1)Saber is not Shirou's primary love interest in this route, yet I wanted her to be. Rin is good, just not as good as Saber 2)Illya died.




You don't understand the meaning of the word tsundere if you really think this. True at the begining the idea of doing the process was because they need it, but that doesn't mean she didn't love Shirou. But someone whit a pride as great as Rin wouldn't agree or think to let other touch her just because this and for X reason they agree to do it unless they really love the partnet will try to hold the control of the situation, she would just probably try to finish it as soon as possible, in a forceul way and would not enjoy it. If she didn't love Shirou would never even think that option, but because she love him she thoght about it and decided to let him doing it with her. Even then She was a little shy at the begining cause she wasn't sure herself of the reason of doing it but as soon as they agree they would doing it for love then she accepted it complety. True Tsunderes aren't too often abouth their feelings nor want to do this kind of things so easily un less they really love the other and even then they get nervious and get shy showing her weaknes. She really enjoy it, and if she complained a little is very normal cause she just want to act tought, but in reality she don't really mind.

Remember when she was kindaped by archer. From her words for him was clear that she feeled something for him ad she knows the true. Also from the scenes when she turned red because of him is clear that she is just a tsundere but she really like him.

Still I found UBW good ending hard to belive for Sable.


To be honest the only rute i really liked was UBW. Saber route was just fine to me. I didn't liked Sakura rute, but was interesting. But I loved UBW rute at the point that i play it a second time and when i see the icon of the game i think it wouldn't be bad if i play UWB again one of those days. (That never come, but i feel it) The true end is the best to me.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby Agailius » January 31st, 2012, 7:35 am

Man... I didn't know Sakura was such a broken base in the fandom.
Personally, the only route I saw interest in was Heaven's Feel. It was full of suspense, drama, and is, in my opinion, the path in which Shirou grows up the most--and, as a consequence, where he kicks a $#!%-ton of @$$. I know I'm ignorant on the behalf of both Rin and Sabre's route, as I have not actually seen the full extent of their routes, so I cannot submit an argument in that regard.

But, even before playing Heaven's Feel, back when I watched the anime, I felt the most sympathy for Sakura, as well as the most interest. Yeah, biased, I know, but it's all about preference, people. And have you even seen Fate/Zero yet? Good LORD, what happened to her was just awful. And all of this was before she even turned 10. I guess you could say I'm one of those guys who likes girls like that--girls who need to be protected; who need to be saved.

Shirou, in a way, holds even more determination in HF than in either other route. He forsakes his ideal of being a superhero to save the girl he loves (while knowing full well the burden he'd carry for her sins), is practically always severely out-classed in every fight in the route, his love interest falls to the other side, and towards the end, is having both his mind and body slowly being destroyed from the inside out--and yet he still moves forward. How the carpfish anyone can say Shirou is not an utter Always-Save-The-Girl Determinator here is completly beyond me.

Also, the True ending. For me, the UBW Good Ending seemed a little too optimistic for a game set in this universe. It just doesn't seem to fit in, for me, at least. As for Fate's ending... dang, it's about as bad as HF's normal ending. The True Ending, however, seems like the one where things are truly at peace. Yeah, the protagonists fought through Hell and back to win, and a lot was lost, but they managed to create what is, in my mind, the best ending out of all of the visual novel.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby Mudmagic123 » April 3rd, 2012, 12:45 am

It's ok Ilya I still think that you would be a great route in FSN T.T
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby Kid-Wolf » April 3rd, 2012, 3:12 am

Mudmagic123 wrote:It's ok Ilya I still think that you would be a great route in FSN T.T


Uh... yeah... she was going to have one, but Sakura kind fo took over that entire idea you know.... Well that's what they say in certain Tiger Doujos about Illya having a route at first. Still if you ask me I wanted my House Wife Caster storyline if possible, since she kind of needed one. :p
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby gunblade » April 3rd, 2012, 3:58 pm

Just gonna have to make do with Ataraxia I'm afraid...
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby astalotte » April 22nd, 2014, 8:13 pm

Allanh i know how you feel so badly! Saber is just soooo cute expecially when she says something serious but you just can't help but look at her ahoge and adore her!

Any way,
Fate; By far my favourite route, it has more romance than the other routes, two good h scenes and an awesome main heroine. The ending is very sad but saber's majestic,kawaii moe-tsunness and realta make up for it.

UBW;Now who cant love rin? Typical tsundere. Personally i prefer archer more than shirou→ shirou is way to naïve and on the other hand, archer has experience.Also i prefer ignorant types like archer e.g.;
Ikuto(shugo chara)zero(vampire knight)usui(kaichou maid sama)
i think rin and archer make a better match cos ther both sarcastic, ignorant, daring and tsundere.I loved the ending, yes saber gets to stay!

HF; I didnt really like this route but that dosent mean i hate sakura. Most people her because 1)she made shirou kill saber- so sad
2)she i over protective of shirou
3)shirou only liked her because of the h scenes.The end i hate *sob sob* my kawaii ojou and o/hime are gone - ilya and saber *sob sob*

My fav heroine is clearly arturia second is rin.i I think saber and gil make a better match than with shirou-both kings, both good-looking,both have lots of pride but 1 destroyed their country and the other was destroyed by the country. Rin is an epic tsundere and makes a better match with archer.Sakura is a moe yandere but wouldn't work with shirou as they are incompatible.
illya would match up with sasha the matyr/alexander nikoleivich hell from seikon no qwaser- both russian, both have white hair, both loli's, both a major part of story, both in a story that involve ero to get power mana/soma.

Allanh dont you think; if arturia and kona-chan from lucky star ever met, that they would go straight to staring at each others' ahoge? no one in fsn except for saber had one and vice versa for kona-chan in lucky star.

In f/z if they kept arturia in the world, she would become ilya's nee-san and illya would be her imouto!kya~~~~~they're soooo kawaii together XD

Caster(medea); asta-chan i've got some new arturia merchandise.
Astalotte;*drooling* hmm vulnerable worm covered h wanting saber. It couldnt get any better.
Caster(medea); *drool*so true asta-chan.
Saber;walks in.
Caster(medea)& Astalotte; kyaaaaa saber in the fleshhh~~~~~*nose bleed*
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