Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby Raven » July 28th, 2009, 7:41 pm

First ... OMG. I gathered my thought and typed thing up, hit submit and "Page Expiration". So this is a retype, uh!.

Fate: if it's not for the ending it would be my indisputable most favorite path. I'm a sucker for happy ending even when they're not relative fit or well executed.

Pro:
- Saber is the my top favorite character. The only one character I would consider in position to compete with her is Lafiel from Banner of The Star.
- I'm not talking about story wise, I just like the other characters the best in this route as well (Rin, Illya, Lancer ...etc...)
- It has the best setting in term of novel. I know a lot people don't like Shirou's personality in the Fate route, and while I don't like him either I would not have it any other way. This is fiction damn it, and romatic element should play over logic and common sense (think Romeo&Juliet). Shirou and Saber are like the same person. They're both naive, they live with the same principal, they share the same goal, they (in the eye of others) reach the same status, and they meet the same end (if Archer to be believed the Fate's Shirou). While the UBW and HF's Shirou might have more composure and more cool, they would be totally out of palce in Fate. It's a novelty image of two knights in the purest light. I don't think the name Fate was used at random.

Con:
- No happy ending, that's all. I had read Fate many times, but usually stop after the second H-scene.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UBW: it's a pretty well rounded route, nothing I would complain about (unless nitpicking) but also lack the occasional awn of other routes.

Pro:
- Well executed characters and narrative. Not many unnecessary melo-drama.
- It's Rin, nuff said. While Saber hold the cake if it's considered on all VN and Anime, Rin is the undisputed queen of F/SN. She is in it for every route, and she shines in all of them
- Archer is a pretty interesting Anti-Protagonist, provide a unique touch to an otherwise generic theme.

Con:
- Too well rounded for its own good. It makes the pace feel mono-tone sometime.
- Somehow I feel Rin is not as good as she is in the Fate route. And yes I'm guilty of running into a bad end in my first Fate's run because I was chasing after Rin.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heaven Feel: I don't like it. Now I'm not saying it's bad. I still have it to thank for yanking me out of me WoW addiction which I'm eternally grateful. It's just there are too many factors the stop me short of enjoying it.

Pro:
- Powerful writing: psychology writing in full effect. It's powerful enough that as of now, HF is the only thing among all VN/Anime I know can convince me a True Ending is better then a Happy Ending. In fact, I found myself argue against people who favor the Happy Ending.
- Every characters (except Gilgamesh) are given the states and justified their existence. It's a rare thing to see the story make you feel that there is no character who is unnecessary to the story. So certainly it also fleshed out characters the most.
- Serve pretty well as a conclusion, information galore and close up all (or most) loose end.
- Although in an opposite light, I think Shirou in this route almost achieve the same romantic vision as the one in Fate.
- It stopped my WoW's addiction.


Con:
- Too powerful writing: while I can deal with them, I don't like psychology writing. While there is no denial that their impact hits like a truck, for the most part the emotion are forced down your throat that at the end of the day, they feel superficial and hollow after you done, which is the feeling I have after reading HF. I dare say Fate's ending achieved almost the same anguished feeling but it's more of a genuine emotion that's naturally nurtured into form, and thus linger much longer. It's the same feeling I had between Yume Miru Kusuri and Family Project. The former, there is little to ponder after the blood rush subside, while the latter actually seals a lasting impression.

- Out of sync: while unto itself it's as good as any. Its position in the route hierarchy makes it stand out too much. Fate and UBW are more or less light-heart that makes HF too much of a twist. It's like cruising through Snow Sakura or Cresendo then got slap with a Kana's ending at the end. It makes me feel unbalance - an effect that I'm pretty sure intended - and although it's probably success at what it's trying to do, I still don't consider it a good style of writing. It's like reaching a climax even before the foreplay is finished.

- Out of sync: same deal for different reason. Again due to the pre-requisite that force through the Fate and UBW route first in which affection and attachment were formed and seeing them get axed for shock affect in HF doesn't work too well for me. To be honest, this could be a reason I dislike Sakura, maybe it's not that I don't like the character herself, but seeing too many scarify to be made in her shake. I'm not sure.


In short, I feel that had HF been a separate game with different characters I may have a higher opinion about it. Its impact is good no debate about it, but given its structure there are so many things I perceived as cheap shot and blow below the belt instead of genuine good writing.


Edit: Checked with Firefox: I count 13 typos :P
Last edited by Raven on July 28th, 2009, 9:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby SolarAdept » July 28th, 2009, 8:20 pm

Half of the words were misspelled.

[/grammar nazi out]

For some reason I feel that you've rephrased the last five or so summaries. They're all too similar.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby Raven » July 28th, 2009, 8:35 pm

SolarAdept wrote:Half of the words were misspelled.


I tried, but my work computer does not have firefox. I did re-read my post twice, I'm sure I haven't weed them all out but I'm sure it's not a half :P

For some reason I feel that you've rephrased the last five or so summaries. They're all too similar.


You're correct, and it's on purpose. First I'm not on the camp of "If I don't like it, it means it sucks", so Pro-and-Con can be interchanged depending on the person, the repeatition you see just simply due to the fact that I acknowledge that reason it's bad for me could very well be the reason it's good for others. Second I hope it's clear since I stated that in my last paragraph, my main problem with HF is situational, the Pro and Con could have been reversed or differ if it was a separated game.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby ayami123 » July 30th, 2009, 7:21 pm

HeartCard wow in the first page, did you read my mind wow that's what I want to say hahaha Sakura is my most favorite character cause she is REALLY Loyal to shiro!!!! and after those indecent don't her past she's can still smile and not gone psycho. if you tell me that she's a psycho because of the dark sakura thing that isn't because it was the dick looking worms that made her like that :) -smiles-
Rin Loyal ??? oh fuck crap she can't loyal why because if lancer is still alive maybe she might even get hooked. oh well maybe i just really don't like rin and most of all i don't like her H-scene she's not a Sex Object thing it doesn't suit her well it suit her in magic girl outfit. although she's ok as an character.
Saber oh men damn she's soo for model or let just say moe. oh men i like her maid outfit the saber lily dark saber dress outfit. but in H-scence well it's an ok scene :) -smiles-.

My Reaction
Fate: oh my god are you a kiddo?? if you want saber then buy a remodel sex doll and have sex with it haha :)) well anyway fate is an okay route but i hate it cause maybe because i'm a partly racist or something i just don't like girl heroine. oh well shiro didn't do anything just sitting in the coach and watching show. wow splendid. hah if your saying that the fight between shiro and souchiro are fight oh men that makes me laugh really . haha :))

UBW: oh i just like the action more archer seen shirou improve a little but still a kiddo. although i like his thoughts
never ever regret what you have don't cause its your choice. you should accept it and learn to adapt it.

Heaven's Feel: Holy THING its my favorite route in the scenario like SAKURA is ReaLLY a SEX MATERIAL and She is Really SUITED in her role as the daily sex routine. anyway i really pity her past lift, whenever i think about it i really want to torture the matou for life. beside shirou's ideal is really more realistic than idealistic. you know what mean. plus shiro seeing shiro in gar mode made me happy cause in all the route it's the only route that shiro fight prove that he became strong. well if your counting the UBW it lacks action for shiro the only thing that i want there is he fights gilgamesh and able to use the UBW and that's it no more action oh crap. plus the meta analogy is much more deeper in short, heaven's feel is really for adult people :) -smiles-
i also think that
FATE: KIDS ONLY
UBW: oh well TEENAGER you might like it kiddo
HF: oh plz its has the best of everything in FSN haha :)) of course for mature people only haha :))

well much is said
Keeper of Gil's Vault oh damn your analysis is good really good hah :)) understandable :) -smiles-
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby Oolinthu » July 30th, 2009, 7:33 pm

ayami123 wrote:FATE: KIDS ONLY
UBW: oh well TEENAGER you might like it kiddo
HF: oh plz its has the best of everything in FSN haha :)) of course for mature people only haha :))


I trust the irony hasn't escaped everyone else.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby ayami123 » July 30th, 2009, 9:31 pm

yeah just well really hate people speak really bad of HF well maybe its because i get attach to it

well why i say fate is for kid hmm.... maybe i'm too much actually when i think about its kinda for moe thing cause i had to admit she's cute hahaha
if i try to feel the character in the story i feel like its not enough.
i didn't give her what i want her feel. something like that at the end of the route i felt like its empty she's what the hell she will be only my memories is that okay?
for me its not. if my evil ego tell me he should have bang saber more haha :)) well shiro is a puss in fate anyway :)) haha :)) haha
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby SolarAdept » July 30th, 2009, 10:51 pm

The 'irony' was that you talk like a ten-year-old kid, kiddo.

Is it just me or is this thread getting too serious? I mean, c'mon, it's just a game!
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby Oolinthu » July 31st, 2009, 7:11 am

ayami123 wrote:yeah just well really hate people speak really bad of HF well maybe its because i get attach to it

well why i say fate is for kid hmm.... maybe i'm too much actually when i think about its kinda for moe thing cause i had to admit she's cute hahaha
if i try to feel the character in the story i feel like its not enough.
i didn't give her what i want her feel. something like that at the end of the route i felt like its empty she's what the hell she will be only my memories is that okay?
for me its not. if my evil ego tell me he should have bang saber more haha :)) well shiro is a puss in fate anyway :)) haha :)) haha


Why do you feel that Fate and UBW are less mature? I can understand the sentiment that in Fate and UBW, Shirou is less mature (although I disagree with it), but the maturity of the protagonist doesn't necessarily equate to the "maturity" of the story arc itself. Matter of fact, why don't we step back and define "mature" to begin with?
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby ayami123 » July 31st, 2009, 9:34 am

The 'irony' was that you talk like a ten-year-old kid, kiddo.

Is it just me or is this thread getting too serious? I mean, c'mon, it's just a game!


yeah i understand haha :)) well i like to act like a kid too much in real life though haha :)) haha :)) just really hate people who say that heaven's feel sucks haha :)) well everybody has their own point of view i just pity that HF isn't that much of success hah :))

Why do you feel that Fate and UBW are less mature? I can understand the sentiment that in Fate and UBW, Shirou is less mature (although I disagree with it), but the maturity of the protagonist doesn't necessarily equate to the "maturity" of the story arc itself. Matter of fact, why don't we step back and define "mature" to begin with?


i know. haha :)) what i want to say is that Fate and UBW are less mature cause Fate so much like a circumstance that He love the girl that just appeared in his face haha :)) the fighting stuff whatever the hero always win something like that :) and of course moe moe moe!! FACTOR haha :)) but the story itself is NOT! Kid but the fact that shiro acts like a kid makes me feel like its for kid only haha :)) but fate is entertaining that leaves a after taste that why did he let her go something like haha :)) the one that made me bad talk about it is that MANY! Saber Crazy Fanatic Criticize that HF is not worth trying worthless or something like that hah :))

in UBW i can't really explain it but lets just say it made me feel its a teenager thing story something like that haha

HF mature ?? why because is dark psychological story but what made me tell that it is a mature cause not all people will appreciate it only few. anyway more about it's that the story itself has a deeper meaning making you understand things better. i'm not saying that the other route don't have meaning but for me the HF meaning is much more mature:)

oh forgot sry for xgrammar haha and xspelling :)
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby nanaya_shinya » July 31st, 2009, 10:04 am

Regardless, you should take it down a notch ayami. :lol:

You're like a hyper kid in a candy store, be careful not to violate Forum rule # 1.
Forum rule # 1 wrote:You must be over the age of 18. Do not behave in a manner that may be considered "immature." This includes not reading threads before posting, or acting in any way under the age of 18!

I am of course referring to "acting in any way under the age of 18", which is pointed out by SolarAdept's earlier post by the way.

Not only that, you are also in violation of...
Forum rule # 9 wrote:Signatures are limited to five lines of text. Images are NOT allowed. Color codes and other crazy fonts are not allowed. Signatures should be non-intrusive, meaning that they should not stand out in an annoying way.


On topic:
Story wise, I liked them all.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby ayami123 » July 31st, 2009, 1:26 pm

Regardless, you should take it down a notch ayami. :lol:

You're like a hyper kid in a candy store, be careful not to violate Forum rule # 1.

Forum rule # 1 wrote:You must be over the age of 18. Do not behave in a manner that may be considered "immature." This includes not reading threads before posting, or acting in any way under the age of 18!


I am of course referring to "acting in any way under the age of 18", which is pointed out by SolarAdept's earlier post by the way.

Not only that, you are also in violation of...

Forum rule # 9 wrote:Signatures are limited to five lines of text. Images are NOT allowed. Color codes and other crazy fonts are not allowed. Signatures should be non-intrusive, meaning that they should not stand out in an annoying way.



On topic:
Story wise, I liked them all.

Off Topic
oh i see haha well didn't read it. Sry :)
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby Rein » August 3rd, 2009, 1:55 pm

The idea of Fate = kiddo (:P) UBW = teen and HF = adult actually kind of works I think, but only if you're looking at Shirou's ideals. I'm sure its been said before but I don't remember where though. In Fate Shirou's ideals are very childish and naive (ima be a supahero!), then in UBW he is much more of a teenager (I don't care if I'm wrong I'm gonna do it anyway! You suck!), and finally in HF he gives up on the childish dreams he had and conforms them to a more practical outlook. At some point even the most stubborn of us realize that we can't be an astronaut/football star/jet pilot/mad scientist lol.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby SolarAdept » August 3rd, 2009, 8:01 pm

wikipedia said that one. And typemoon wiki copied it.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby smartazjb0y » August 4th, 2009, 5:27 am

I see that a lot, but I still don't understand. How is "giving up all your ideals for a girl who's very nature is in direct contrast with the past few years of your life" mature and adult like?
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby SolarAdept » August 4th, 2009, 5:49 am

The fact that he gave up on his childish dream is supposedly adult-like and mature.

I hope I'll be part of the elite few who don't need to throw away childhood dreams and ideals, though: video game developers.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby Dark_Habit » August 4th, 2009, 6:46 am

SolarAdept wrote:I hope I'll be part of the elite few who don't need to throw away childhood dreams and ideals, though: video game developers.


Yes, me too. If we are capable of doing that we will be living our fantasy.
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Rocks,rapids,falls hinder not the flow of the strong.
It has its ups,and its downs.
And in the end,peacefully.......
It dissipates into to vast Ocean.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby SolarAdept » August 4th, 2009, 12:16 pm

And then we'll fit into the Ascended Fanboy trope.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby Raven » August 4th, 2009, 3:31 pm

Actually I'm still pursuit my childhood dream. I always want to one day work in the gaming industry and have ever worked toward that goal since kids. I recently graduated with a bachelor degree in Computer Science, I'm working on a management job to pay for graduated-school ATM, but I'm slowing build up my porfolio that hopefully by the time I finish gradschool a game studio will take me in :)
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby SolarAdept » August 4th, 2009, 3:38 pm

Hopefully, I'm going to start my first year in Computer Sciences in uni in a couple of months. Then I'll work in the computer-related field for the IDF for six years and leave the military at the age of 30, with work experience and hopefully some cash left over from the salary I won't be using.
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Re: Thoughts on Heroines/Endings of FSN (spoilers)

Unread postby smartazjb0y » August 8th, 2009, 5:07 am

The fact that he gave up on his childish dream is supposedly adult-like and mature.


Not to ruin your interesting convo about video game development, but I just wanted to say something. Couldn't giving everything up for a girl be seen as immature? Parents these days are going on and on about how teens don't know what real love is and etc.
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